Hello All,
I reread the plan b chapter again in the SAA book.
couple of questions. Cannot this work with joint custody of kids. WW and i share kids every other week. This is the way it was written up in the separation agreement.
By having this arrangement will this not allow WW to still get some of her needs met by having the Children present with during the week. She can have someone around with her all the time. I know even though they are kids and she cannot have the adult conversations and other needs met by them as a adult would meet, but she really is not alone by herself to sit and let reality hit her a little bit. The week i have the kids, Om pops back into the picture. Again getting her most of all her needs met.
Can this work in this type of arrangement??? I know i can avoid WW most of this time. My kids are old enough now that they can be left for a few mins. inbetween us getting home so that i do not have to see WW at all. This i am not concern with. Children can call me at anytime without WW having to initiate this for them.
Second question and i know i have asked this before. When i reread the plan B letter, why does it seem that the BS is shouldering all the blame in the letter. I admit i am to blame but these letters make it come across to the WW that they have done nothing wrong and everything or every foggy reason they justify there relationship seems like when writing this we are agree with them.
I have had others outside the board read my plan B letter. Alot thought it was good but co. that i was taking entirely too much plan for all of this. I have tried to defend this to them by saying it is suppose to prevent finger pointing and lessen the WW to get defensive. Am i correct on how i am interpreting this??
PLease let me know.
Thanks,
jets

You are correct in realizing that the Plan B letter prevents the WS from getting defensive, and also spells out that you want your marriage.

As far as kids, Plan B can be done with joint custody. You can even talk to wife about kids, or go through an intermediary. But don't discuss anything else.

Jets, I'm not the Plan B letter expert but maybe this link will help. Go down to about the middle and there are a number of sample letters that may clear your questions up. I hate that you have to do this Jets! KB

Oh, I almost forgot, here is part two of that link. It's very helpful stuff, don't know if you've seen it before.

Jets, the absence of you in her life is the most important thing. You don't have any choice but to share custody for now, I expect, so the best thing to do is deprive your WW of any interaction, positive or negative, with you to the greatest extent possible.

Acknowledging your role in making the marriage vulnerable, without accepting blame for the affair, is what the letter should convey. In my letter, when I described my faults, I was careful to say that I was sorry I made it easier for her to have the affair. I didn't make her have it, I just left her in some ways unsatisfied and made it easier for her to come up with an excuse.

I'm completely unavailable to my W, and I think this is best. If she were to leave me a note, I would avoid reading it. If she sent me a letter, I'd most likely return it unopened.

GC

Thanks all for your
feedback and concerns
jets

You accept the blame for YOUR share of the issues that created the marital environment that made the affair possible, NOT the blame for her decision to have the affair. You state the former but you leave out the latter in your Plan B letter to leave the door open for future reconciliation AFTER she ends her affair, gives the OM a NC letter, and willingly expresses a desire to rebuild the marriage through the marriage builders principles. If you send her an angry, hate filled letter, you will be literally expressing your unwillingness to take her back and justifying her decision to leave you. Is that what you want?

Hi jets,

I know I wasn’t officially invited to this thread, but that’s never stopped me before. I’ve been busy and have not posted much as of late, but thought‘d come out of lurking.

I have two young children and have been in plan B for 3 ½ mos. now. It can be done. Messages are via an Email intermediary and I’m strict about it. I don’t listen to her messages on my voice mail or answering machine and call display prevents me inadvertently answering her calls. She has a house about 200 meters away, so child exchanges are done in person. I usually get my son to walk my daughter to her door. WW prefers to walk up to my door and make prolonged and dramatic display of saying goodbye to them in my face. I minimize the exposure as much as possible and with a big smile on my face take my daughter and gently close the door as she tries to engage me in conversation occasionally.

Any way….you cannot and should not think about preventing WW from having the kids any less than she does simply for the kid’s sake. They need their mom in spite of her awful behavior. Don’t think that plan B has any less effect because of this. After a week of kissing the darlings good night, she gets to sleep in a home without their presence. It’s tragic and it will not go unnoticed by her. The maternal instinct will be strong and does not diminish…even as the electricity of her vile relationship starts to. A mother that breaks a family has to fight millions of years of instinct and evolution to do so.

Don’t misread what I’m saying. She may be able to do it….natural selection has largely been rendered an obsolete concept for human kind. Aberrations of humanity can now thrive; lawyers for instance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As one slips into the peaceful waters of plan B, soon you will quit looking for your WW to have an epiphany. You may have one. You may begin to realize that you are OK without her, maybe in time you’ll realize you don’t want her. I am very quickly coming to the realization that I don’t need her chaos back in my life, I think Grey (Canadian spelling) is getting there as well.

Time to look at your life now; what makes you happy, what can you do to improve your life and soul. How do you share your world with your children to allow them to thrive in spite of the putrid mess their own mother has introduced into their worlds?

Keep your stick on the ice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you find this helpful. It's by Cerri, and it is about Plan B, not the Plan B letter, since you already have links about that. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A Good PLB....

Well, first we need to assume of course that one has done a good PlA - with all the necessary components of exposure and confronting the spouse and the OP. And that a willingness to address the issues in the marriage has been explicitly stated. And that love busters have been and continue to be addressed. Attempting to meet needs is good too, but the other things are crucial. Meeting needs alone won't do much as long as the OP is in the picture because the bank is generally closed to the spouse. It's the presentation as an attractive alternative that really needs to be made. But keep in mind, you can't fix a marriage or fill a LBnk as long as the A is in progress or there is lingering contact.

Ok, so with that disclaimer, what does a good PLB look like? In a word, selfish.

First and foremost, PlB is defined by no contact. The original MB thought on this was to remove all need meeting and let the WS see how much they would miss the spouse. But over time that has changed. It is generally considered that PLB is to protect the BS from the pain of dealing with the A.

But if you take both those reasons and the idea of presenting an attractive alternative to the OP when the A ends into account you can see quite plainly that for any of it to be effective there must be no contact.

First the idea of PlA's being an attractive alternative cannot mix well with not meeting needs - if there is contact. It makes the BS look like a cold uncaring jerk and not at all attractive.

On the other hand, there is no protection if the BS continues to attempt to meet needs sporadically while being faced with the pain of having to see the A up close and personal. It hurts too much.

But with my clients it's more than just not having contact. I am very proactive about this and it's not just a PlB sort of thing. I call it quarantining the marriage and the BS. With no contact the BS can still be caught up in the day to day pain of the A. Either by posting here, talkking endlessly to friends, monitoring the spyware or writing long sad tirades in a journal.

What I like to see is that there is detachment. Not from the marriage and not from the spouse, but from the present situation. And the way to do that is to get your mind on something else. Get out of the house, have friends (SS, AoM), join a book club, start a new hobby, spend time with the kids.

One of the biggest dangers to the marriage when there is infidelity (or abuse or neglect) is that the hurting partner will eventually decide that the other guy isn't worth the time and the effort and will eventually decide to bail.

If I'm going to be successful at helping marriages stay together then I need the BS strong, healthy, and reenergized after PLB... not worn out with obsessing for however long it takes. I need a buffer zone between them and the A.

Reclaiming your life while still holding on to the commitment to the marriage is what defines a good PlB in my mind. It looks selfish and it feels wrong, but it really is about protecting the BS and ultimately the marriage.

I wrote a thing for the yahoo group last week about being married and alone, and talked about this very thing.

C </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

What a great quote from Cerri...I think I may apply that to my situation. Though I have no (well…very little) contact with my WW, I still allow the stench of her actions to permeate my life and home. Even the reading here keeps it front and centre. I already feel the resentment growing…I already am starting to look forward to being free of her.

Maybe it's time to tweak my plan B. Maybe it’s time to compartmentalize this unholy mess; out of site, out of mind. Hmmmmmmm. (Binder stares out window…rubs chin)

thanks for the repsonses coffeman, john, and Binder.
Binder- I have no intention of taking the kid away from mom on full time bases. Could never do that she is still there mother, and they view as any different right now in their life.
My question was will she really feel what being alone is like? How can she totally feel the way i am feeling right now when i am by myself.
One week she has the kids to keep her occupied and the next week when i have the kids. Om moves in for the week. Does she really experience the loneliness and the time to think about what is going on with all of this, with this type of arrangement?????
Since you have been in this for 3.5 mo. have u noticed any change in your WW or does she still remain in her fog and relationship with OM.
I agree and most others i have talked to state that this is having to be done for me to give me a chance to detach from this mess of the affair but to protect my marriage. I need to find other things to occupy my time besides this and these boards. I agree with this 100% but it is just so darn hard, when you are not used to living single.
jets

Jets

Have I noticed a change??

Since July…all the conversation I have had with WW could be condensed into less than 1 minute….probably less than 20 sec. I don’t give her the opportunity to show slight changes….if she wants to return to this marriage it will be after no contact PERIOD. After that I will let her deal with the other conditions....there are many.

I hear from the in-laws little things; she sits by the window at night sipping tea and mentions she never sees me drive by. I never do…I take another route out of the neighborhood.

I may be wired differently than you Jets. I’m a loner at heart. I enjoy my own company and seek solitude on occasion. I don’t look for the changes in my WW. Also I work Monday to Thursday and Tuesday to Friday. On my 4 and 2 day weekends I have the children. I am very busy and really have no days to be unoccupied. I can tell you I would have a lot of things to do if I had some time to me, but I’m not Jets. You will have to figure out what you want to do. Start looking at your future as a single man, who and what do you want to be? Picture yourself in the future, set a goal (independent of your WW) and take steps to get there. Every now and again evaluate your progress. See if there is a Divorce Care group in your area. It is for separated people as well. Just a heads up though, they are Christian based.

Binder,
Yeah i guess i am a little different, i like company my WW does too. I can at times be by myself and have had a lot of those exp. over this last year with WW ongoing affair that i did not know about, but it is not something i am used too or really like.
Sounds to me like you are pretty much over your WW and probably reconsidering reconciliation.
Has she had NC with OM yet??
I find i have to do this plan B because i am starting to see my WW cake eat. She will not admit, acknowlegde for that matter recognize that she is doing it but she is. This week has been a real tester for me. Outside my youngest appt. to doctors yesterday and the update she gave me. I have not spoken with her since Tues.
I know probably a drop in the bucket for most on this board, but it is not something that i am used too. WW and i have always been friends and friendly with each other. We went to same school and have grown up in the same small town. Have known each other for 20years. I know this has got to be killing her, then again maybe not. Maybe this is truly what she wants. Either way i will never really know.
I talk with her parents who are supportive of me, but i choose to walk a thin line with this d/t the blood is thicker than water theory, but it is somewhat nice to know they are in my corner. WW has not spoken much to them and definitely not much with all ongoing affair issues. My MIL feels that this is going to hit WW around the upcomming holidays, WW big on holidays, they will not be around for thanksgiving and i am going home to OH. WW will be her by herself with kids. Christmas i go home again and take my kids with me for my folks 50th wedding annv. WW will be here by herself or with her parents. Hopefully this will give her time to think a little harder about what is going on. But i am trying to mentally prepare myself if is does not and just not try to be to concern over it. Plan on getting active with something. Just haven't put much thought into figuring that out yet.
jets

Oh I’m open to reconciliation, but have had absolutely nothing to indicate it’s going in that direction. She has not wavered.

NC? She’s with him every weekend almost. He flies her down (has his own plane) to his city 300 km. away. She’s met his children, boys 10 and 12 I believe. That likely means she will expose our two beautiful children to this him soon. That just may quell any desire I may have for reconciliation.

We’ll see how the holidays go. Our Canadian thanksgiving was in Oct. We have only Christmas to anticipate. I made sure the separation agreement has the children here for Christmas Eve and morning. Next year it reverses. By then this whole pile of manure should be resolved one way or another.

By having this arrangement will this not allow WW to still get some of her needs met by having the Children present with during the week. She can have someone around with her all the time. I know even though they are kids and she cannot have the adult conversations and other needs met by them as a adult would meet, but she really is not alone by herself to sit and let reality hit her a little bit.

My question was will she really feel what being alone is like? How can she totally feel the way i am feeling right now when i am by myself.
One week she has the kids to keep her occupied
Plan B is about separating HER and YOU, not her from everyone else.
Plan B is about YOU not filling any of her needs.

Hopefully this will give her time to think a little harder about what is going on.
Don’t worry about what Plan B is doing/no doing to her.