Hi!

I watched just a small part of the Dr. Phil show yesterday with Mt3b and Dt3b. I could not bear to watch the entire show. There is so much pain on this woman's face that I literally broke in tears. I do not feel equipped to give advice to either one of them, but I wanted them to know that I have seldom seen so much pain and hurt and I will keep them in a prayer tonight in hope that someday they will find a way to happiness in their lives. Nobody should have to live with this kind of sorrow and pain.

I also wanted to say something about "intellectual stimulation" in a relationship. Many times when we first meet, it is all about chemicals in our bodies as well as getting to know each other and sharing interests and ideas. This often subsides when a relationship is confronted with every day stresses, jobs, children etc. Talking to an outside with whom we do not share these responsibilities often makes it seem like we may have picked the "wrong" partner when this is not true. We just don't make the effort any more to get into our partner's mind and soul. It gets buried under the stresses and chores.

While I think that being a doctor is a great accomplishment, it does not make this person superior or even inferior towards others. My own brother is a doctor and my family had to make many sacrifies to be able to send him to an elite school. There are times when he is arrogant towards me because I did not receive the kind of schooling that he did and I can sense that, in a way, he looks down at me.

Sometimes when we reach the top of the ladder, it seems that the sky has no limit and we feel that certain people are "below" our intelligence. But, the top of the ladder can be a pretty lonely place as well and a slip-up can cause a fall of unknown devastation...

Kati

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. Mark Twain"

Hi Kati,

Nice to hear from ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree on a few counts.When I was watching the Dr.Phil show yesterday,I was so nerve wracked that I could barely sit on the couch.I felt all this emoiton bubbling up that I told my D to be ready to get off the computer because mommy will need it( to post to MB!).I know mom will get her strength in her own time but boy is it hard watching her go through this and knowing,at least in my mind,a deep dark plan b is what dad needs.For her sake as well as him.But,you know,we all make choices.

I also agree with you on the point that LIFE happens to put a crimp in all the fantasies floating around out there in adultery-land.That was a HUGE issue for me in the early stages of finding out about my WH's A.I was BEYOND mad because,all these years,I had been loving him,supporting him,rooting for him,making sure he had a clean home,his children were well taken care of,he had birthday cakes(I never got one),plenty of cards(loving),never denied him sex,was willing to try anything to please him,etc,etc etc and he basically "tells" me that because I wasn't single and wearing thongs and couldn't be at his beck and call to go out for drinks and so on,I was useless,inferior and less exciting in some way,etc.I was LIVID. I told him how nice for HER,this homewrecker who had no responsibilities except driving to and from work wearing thongs is taking my place after 20 years.This was also when the happy homewrecker was living with mommy and daddy at the age of 29. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Oooh.

But you know what,I would rather be in my place than his because I would hate to be that shallow that that is only what mattered.Sorry that this may offend some but you know,let's call a spade a spade shall we? IMHO, of course.

What would have been nice,instead of selfish,is appreciating what he had,making our lives better instead of thinking only of himself.WH told me one day when he came home,and was crying to me again as he does sometimes,that I should have been pampered.Well,he's right.I have been giving and giving and giving to him for YEARS which I didn't mind at all since I loved him and I wanted him to be happy.But he took and took until it just wasn't enough anymore.

Kati,you definitely have worth and you know it,no matter what degrees are on the wall or not.You can have a pile of degrees but still be a je**.

How's things going by the way?

O

Funny you should post this. I just posted the following on another thread:

When talking about the fantasies of affairs...one issue we don't talk about much is "intellectual fantasy". I see this pretty often with folks who are involved with "work" affairs, because part of the excitement of workplace As IS the "intellectual" factor. Communication between workplace affair partners begins as conversations about common interests, perhaps technology, business, etc....and usually continues to have those shared elements as time goes on even though convos become more emotional in nature. In contrast, the conversations at home with a stay at home spouse especially, often revolve around things like children, bills, repairs, the workings of home and family, conflict about the A.... and finding time for intellectual discussions becomes a challenge. In that kind of environment, it's easy for a WS to conclude that their homelife is not intellectually stimulating and that the H and W are not compatible in that way. It really may have no basis in fact...it is just part of the fantasy that affairs create. My guess is that neither partner is probably more intelligent or compatible...and that neither are intellectually defined by just their "job" or their educational training. It's all part of the dynamics of an affair and how "blind" those raging chemicals can make WSs.

star*fish,

I agree that what you stated has no real basis in reality.My WH and I used to talk about ALL kinds of issues: science,mathematics,books,movies,people,food,travel,celebrities,etc not just the kids,the home and family.In fact,of the need for communication,which was high on my WH's EN list,I did great.

The trap my WH fell into,among other's,was the feeling of *newness by just sharing the same discussion with a new person who,unfortunately,also happened to be a homewrecker that had no qualms about getting involved with a married man.He basically just started over with a new person.

One thing's for sure though,in my mind,somewhere,sometime,WH lost respect for me for all that I do and have done(he even admitted wrestling with this idea).It was no longer important in his mind.All that we worked for,all that he promised...GONE.Exchanged for a new set of beliefs and values that I don't subscribe to.

Whatever.

O

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

October,

You know I've always guessed that it must be fun and exciting to talk to someone that hasn't heard all your "stories" for years....a new fresh audience so to speak. I can get that with new friends...girlfriends...I don't need to have an affair to do it. It is certainly one of the "traps" of affairs. And you're quite right...it has nothing to do with "intellect" it's in fact...far more about vanity and admiration.

Hi OG,

Good to hear from you, too. I rarely post here anymore, however I do read sometimes. I'm doing well, thanks for asking.

Just like you, I am also mainly a "giver". I believe that I was raised this way and it has never occurred to me that it is also okay to sometimes be a "taker". I just spent a few weeks in Europe with my family and for the first time ever, did I notice how all this contributed to the way I am today. My parents do not have a good marriage. My Dad cheated many times and my Mom stayed and took it. She is timid and a "giver". My Dad is often cruel and humiliating towards her. But still, she stays... He is proud of the boys; they have achieved a lot.

One thing that was so clear to me after this trip is that none of the males in my family have any respect for me and somehow this swapped over into my marriage. So, I have decided that before I do any more work on this marriage, I need to fix myself first.

Since coming to the U.S., I have done a lot that I should be proud of, but I'm not and I need to do what I need to do, so that I can look at MYSELF without regrets and without having feelings of inferiority. I held myself back. I put my own schooling on the back burner because I was a "giver" and I gave to this relationship and family first. Kati, always came last...

I never ask for or demanded anything; I took what was given to me even if it was not much.

I think, this is how OW is so different from me and then life got in the way... Just like you said.

Kati

actually, i find myself being embarassed a lot that i've gone to college, became a nurse, was an officer in the air force, etc. i almost feel like people might think i thought i was better than them. it really was a means to an end for me. i wanted to be an officer and to be an officer you had to have a bachelor's degree and if i was going to get a degree i wanted it to be something i would like. the medical field fascinated me so i chose nursing.

i do feel that college made ME a more well rounded person but certainly i don't think that everyone has to go to college to be well-rounded and intellectual. the thing about people (generally speaking) is that they like to talk about themselves. i like to talk to people that i can learn from them and vice versa, i think it makes each person feel good about themselves, etc. like a reciprocating relationship, which is basically a give and take relationship or partnership.

mmmmmmmmm....kind of forgot what i was going to say.......i guess it's just that i think that people can be "smart" in so many different areas and that we can all learn things but i just don't see how that can be the top reason i would be attracted to someone (because of their intelligence or maybe their appearance of intelligence). does that make sense?

star*fish,

Bingo!Again,another high five for pointing out just what is up with my WH which I have felt since day one.His need for admiration and vanity are a source for this predicament I am in.I am very much my own person and while I loved my WH deeply and cared about every aspect about his life and what he felt,I was not an obsequious wife.

I did have a life seperate from that of my WH and I thought all along that he respected me for that.I could have gone on to have a very intense and fulfilling career in Nursing but chose to give that up for the benefit of our children which I will never let anyone,including my WH,make me feel sorry for.

I can't tell you how many times my WH came to me over the years and told me about dreams he had of having lunch or shmoozing with celebrities.Especially Arnold Schwarzenegger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Kati,

You know,maybe the guys in the family don't respect you for the very obvious reason of what they saw your mother endure(so they learned).It's probably all women that they may harbor this kind of "stigma" against,you think? Although they may already understand that a woman does not deserve to be treated this way and should be respected,it takes a lot more work to change bad behavior than to give into it.

Suffice it to say,no one on this earth has the power to make me feel inferior.I felt a twinge probably back in the first week of the early days when finding out there was another woman at the core of that revolting scene(puke) but that was due to the overwhelming severity of pain I was swimming in and not knowing up from down.It didn't last long because I KNOW I was a good wife.Not perfect but goood!

Nice chatting with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


O