DDay (9/3/04) I confronted my WW about my suspicions of her having an affair. My WW admitted to an EA but denies it was a PA. WW initiated NC on 9/6/04 and I know of no contact since then. WW actions are that she wants to rebuild the M and make things right between us. I have been in plan A since DDay and things seem to be going very well. I posted "speeding through recovery?" here last month. The problem is that the EA lasted around 3 years and I don't believe it was only EA but have no proof. If there is more to the A than she has admitted, when can or should I expect her to fully disclose? Is there anything I can do to get her to open up? I seem to get a lot of "I don't know, I don't remember" answers to my questions, leading me to believe there is more to the story.

Hello,

I think you are correct. Generally a person who says I don't remember or I don't know is pulling a Clinton. They know but they are trying to protect themselves. Convince her that absolute honesty is essential. A 3 year EA without being physically seems difficult to believe. Ask her if the roles were reversed, would she believe you?
I wish you luck.

hurtin',

TELL her that when she answers your questions with "I don't remember" or "I don't know" that you FEEL like she is hiding something. Ask her to try very hard to remember and answer your questions completely and honestly.

When she answers you, and it hurts, that it when it is MOST important to avoid LBs. Instead, thank her for her honesty. Tell her you know it must have been difficult and frightening for her to reveal that info. Tell her how much you value her courage, and that her honesty helps earn back your trust.

Make it safe for her to tell you the painful things.

Turtlehead & Bryanp - I know WW did not get what she expected from me on DDay. I can only imagine she thought I would "go off" in an angry tirade. Instead, I calmly tried to talk with her to learn what had happened and why (no LBs). That is the attitude I have maintained throughout. Twice she has told me something she "remembered" but both memories seemed superficial, and I thanked her for talking about them each time. Right now I'm worried that she won't disclose anything else for fear of losing what we have become in the last 2 months. Currently things are great between us but I think she has seen what she risked and now is afraid to lose it.

HAH--

I'm thinking she is still in withdrawal a bit. I mean she was in the EA (at least) for three years right? She's not going to get over that fantacy overnight. Heck, it's been almost seven months since NC was established and I still have my foggy moments...

Anyway, maybe the fantacy of the A is still right up there in her mind and if she admits to anything else she will really see the ugliness for all it is. I'm just guessing...

Are you in counceling at all? Maybe with a councelor she will be able to open up more.

Turtle's advise is right on, make it safe for her and she will eventually open up.

You are a good guy!!!

chackler - I also believe she is in withdrawl but WW says no and is genuinely working on our M. I have seen no noticable withdrawl symptoms and we spend significant amounts of time together (now). But I still wonder how they could end it with a single phone call. So for now I'll continue to check up on WW activities.

I never thought about the issue of her "seeing the ugliness for all it is". You're guess is probably right. Thanks

We started counseling immediately and it has helped, but our counselor is also our pastor. He has told her repeatedly to be open and honest with me but I don't think she will disclose a PA to him, at least not yet.

There is also the possibility that WW is being honest. That is my hope.

Oh yah, she definitly could be being honest, not doubting that. Just going from what you said. Also, how can you not remember if you have had sex with someone? You said she said that right? That would certainly peak my interest.

What she says about being out of withdrawal... Well I established NC the morning after my hubby found out, with an e-mail and I committed myself to my marriage. I was still in withdrawal, big time. That could very well be the same for your wife.

Also, if there was a physical affair, she might not want to admit it to her pastor for fear that he might say something. Is she seeking individual counseling? Maybe you can get a Christian counselor? If though, after time she still sticks with her guns then you will have to let go and trust her at some point.

chackler - You have obviously picked up on my roller coaster of doubt. I have asked WW repeatedly if there was sex, sexual tension, sexual overtones. etc.. with the OM. WW repeatedly says no. The EA started when OM needed a "friend" to talk with about his failing marriage. The "I don't know, I don't remember" answers are to questions about why she remained in this "friendship" with another man even after realizing that what was going on was wrong, and how often and when did they get together.

WW says her feelings for OM are "flat line". I would like to think that means dead. But it probably means neutral neither good or bad. WW also said she was not in love with OM, because it was too easy to let him go.

I believe that since DDay my WW has commited herself to our M. I know she is putting a lot of effort into it. I would also like to believe that she is not in withdrawl but I might be missing the symptoms. What should I look or listen for?

I've tried to make it safe for her to tell me anything and she said she would. But I feel like she is holding back, trying to hold on to what we have now.

I do realize that eventually, if I hear no more, I'll have to take the leap of faith. But it's to fresh now.

HAH---

I don't blame you for not trusting everything she says. It took a while for me to earn my hubby's trust back. I don't have his blind trust anymore and that bothers me. I mean, I blew that and I'm ashamed of that. One day though, I'll get that back.

As far as the "I don't know..." answers from her. I can totally relate. I was in my EA, knew it was totally wrong, was miserable most of the time, yet I was continuing down that horrible road. You just get so caught up in it that you lose all sense of right and wrong. I am a Christian and yet I found that during my A I strayed from my faith. I mean I had to because my faith was putting a damper on things, ya know?

Also, she may really not know. I am still trying to figure why I did what I did.

I would think that her withdrawal would be typical of other FWW's withdrawal. The need to contact OM and knowing that you shouldn't. That can be very fustrating. When I was in heavy withdrawal I was very depressed (I had to up my anti-d's dosage). Also, I would cry, a lot. Not at the situation at first, from missing the OM. Then it turned into balling over what I had done. I wanted to be alone, didn't want to talk much about anything. I did though because my hubby needed answers, but I didn't like it much.

Hey, you know what helped us?? Hubby wrote down all of his questions and then over the course of a few weeks, when we were emotionally up to it, we would go through them. Maybe you can do that. Give her the opportunity to ask you questions as well, that way it won't seem like she's under the spotlight. If you do do this, do it in a relaxing atmosphere like the couch in your living room, a place that is comfortable for you both. I felt so safe in the environment we created that it made it a lot easier for me to open up.

chackler,

Thanks for being here. What you said helps me in knowing that "I don't know" actually might be sincere. I still question her inability to remember any specific dates/days she was with him. She says they were only together when I was out of town. I went through old calendars with her but it didn't seem to help. I understand that the A evolved from a "friendship", but find it hard to believe that the first time WW knew she crossed the line, there is no memory of the day. There is no memory of any specific day. I asked why she would risk so much for nothing. Reply "I don't know".

I have not seen any of the withdrawl symptoms you mentioned. I'm concerned that the lack of withdrawl could mean that WW is still in contact with OM. It could also mean that it was a superficial relationship and she is being honest.

I appreciate your suggestions about making her feel safe. Too often we try to talk in the bedroom with the kids in the house. That probably is not the appropriate setting.

Your suggestion about writing questions down made me snicker. I started writing my questions down and when I started page 4, I realized how overwhelming this would be. So I write them down, so I don't forget, then try to limit the talks to only a few at a time. And I wish she would ask more questions. But she doesn't.

I hope my wife is like you and is commited to rebuilding our marriage.

And again, thanks for your help.

HAH---

Sorry about not getting back to you yesterday. I had a humorous accident at work. I was using the bathroom facilities (if you know what I mean) and while pulling my jeans up they ripped - from the middle of the fly all the way down my right leg. Everything was revealed if you know what I mean, and I work with guys - I'm the only girl. So I had to get duct tape to tape my jeans up and leave. It was hilarious!!!

Okay, back to your situation. Maybe some other FWW's can chime in on this. You lack of withdrawal from your wife concerns me. Here's a bit from my story:

If you look at my siggy you will see that in March I had my first d-day. I told my hubby that I was attracted to another man and that we needed to work on our marriage because it was in trouble. My hubby had asked me to stop all communication with the OM. I wasn't expecting that or wanting that at all. I tried for two days to go without contact. I cried, I was ticked off, I was a mess. Hubby was very concerned but he thought it was because of the A, not because I missed OM. On that third day I couldn't take it anymore and I resumed contact. With that my mood completely changed and I was pretty much back to normal. Hubby thought everything was cool, and I had my OM back.

Your wife not having withdrawals would send up a red flag in my mind. I was a mess with withdrawals. Read other FWW's stories, they went through withdrawals too. I know each person is different, they have their different personalities, but the attitude of a wayward spouse, during an affair and after is so similar it's scary.

I don't want to scare you but IMHO your wife's lack of withdrawals isn't right and makes me think something else is going on.

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: chackler ]</small>

Here are a couple of things you may want to think about.

1. Although you handled D day very well, and thought you didn’t LB is very positive i.e. you don’t yell, scream, call names and rent your cloths etc., it doesn’t mean that you’re suppose to be so laid back and calm as to not convey the hurt and disapproval of her acts. There are ways to communicate condemnation that don’t require overt displays of anger. My point is that because your WW was surprised that you didn’t go off on her like the lunatic she expected to confront, it doesn’t mean that she shouldn’t have received the very real message of what this means to you. Are you sure that she did receive this message?

2. Did she ever write a no contact letter? Is she in fact observing no contact? Has she offered you proof and agreed to give you ways to verify her promise?

3. Did you ever explain to her that reconciliation is not just a word? That it’s a process that people go through and that part of that process requires total honesty and disclosure? Did you ever stress to her just how important her total honesty regarding this matter and all future matters is to you?

4. While she is saying all the right things, that she wants to save the marriage and work on the marriage and make the marriage better and stronger, yada, yada, yada, my cynicism always causes me to be just a bit skeptical with these kinds of assertions from the cheating party. To me, for now and always, it will never again be a matter of what a person says or promises that counts. To me it’s what a person does that counts. I’ve become a “show me” kind of guy. Talk is cheap. And while we’re on the topic, when my WW asked how I wanted her to “show me” my response was that she would just have to figure that out on her own! Just like she figured out how to lie and cheat!

Going through the motions do not mean a thing. Living up to an agreement does not mean a thing. Understanding and living up to the spirit of reconciliation is what is important to me. Her living her life like our marriage is her single most important priority is what is important to me.

Just my thoughts.
coach

hah,

Would echo what coach has written in his great no bs manner.

Coach.. Haven't seen much of you around and really miss your sound judgement and writing ability. Just wanted to say Hi.

chackler - Maybe the duct tape will start a new fad! I personally would find the situation to be embarassing, but I'm glad you could appreciate the humor in it and get through it ok.

I value your opinion, thanks. WW not showing any sign withdrawl has been a red flag since DDay. WW gave me her email & cell pass words and I check them regularly. I think the only way they can still be in contact is from her office phone. I am 99% sure they have not been together since she initiated NC. Sadly, I am continuing to, and have enhanced my ability to, check up on her.

Coach - thanks for your thoughts. While my attitude on DDay was calm, I wouldn't characterize it as laid back. When she admitted to an EA with the OM I told her she needed to move out. WW knew I was serious and I was. I believe I expressed my condemnation of her actions and the message was clear. She asked to stay at home through the weekend so we could talk. When she told me she would make things right, I (much like you I suppose) told her actions speak louder than words. Since then I have witnessed a change. Definitely a change in priorities. But I realize it has only been 2 months and could this just be a facade.

Unfortunately I did not find MB until several days after DDay, but when I did, I couldn't get enough. It's hard to believe that in this devastating situation so many people have so much in common.

On DDay I when WW asked to stay, I asked her how she was going to start to repair the damage. WW offered to call OM, then and there, so I could listen to the NC conversation. I wish I would have taken her up on the offer, but I didn't. The NC phone call was a Tuesday a.m. from her office to his. WW gave me all her passwords (email/voicemail) and told me I was free to check any time. WW maintains that since that Tuesday a.m. she has had no contact with OM. WW says she has not tried to contact him and he as not tried to contact her.

I told WW the only way I was going to get through this was with total honesty, now and forever. She said she accepted that, and I have not found where she has not lived up to it.

"Understanding and living up to the spirit of reconciliation is what is important to me. Her living her life like our marriage is her single most important priority is what is important to me."

These well spoken words are exactly correct. thanks