Hello everyone, some updates and some venting for today...

My WW is supposed to stop by and see the children today. She hasn't called them in weeks, and has seen them only 3 or 4 times since Sept. 26th, when she dumped us off at my mother's house in another state. I asked her if she was going to spend the night, and she said she wasn't sure. I asked her if she was coming alone (she brought her A enabling brother and his GF last time, so she couldn't stay the night). SHe said she wasn't sure, and asked me why I wanted to know. I said I was just curious.

She said that she bought Shrek 2 for our son, and that she wanted to watch it with him. I informed her that my mom already bought it, and we watched it. She almost started to cry, got very angry with me (even though my mom decided to buy the movie!), and hung up. I waited a few minutes for her to calm down, then I called her back. I explained that my son had been begging for the movie, so my mom bought it. WW was mad that I didn't "stop" her. She then rewrites some recent history, trying to say I underminded things that she wanted to do. This of course isn't true. Its also kind of funny she would feel that way, since she underminded my authority when dealing with the children, or with any decisions regarding M or bills.

Later in the conversation, I asked if she had a lot of people over, because I heard numerous voices in the background. She said she did have people over. I asked if it was a party, and she said no. I wanted to ask for details, because I have no idea what my WW has been up too. My dreams haunt me every night. I dream of her, of us, of OM (and of me pounding OM in a most epic fashion), and of WW sleeping with multiple OP's. She hasn't slept with more than just OM that I know of, but I must be worried about it deep down, to be dreaming about it.

She said that because she had company, she wanted to get off of the phone. She said she didn't know when she would arrive. She said "I'll see you tomorrow, and I'll probably come alone."

She always does that...gives me slivers of hope that she realises the mistakes she has/is making. She knows I will be bothered if she brings anyone with her when she comes to visit. She has hinted at her regretting certain things that she has done. These are fleeting though, because her PURE EVIL A supporting/enabling/in an A herself sister holds influence over my WW right now. My WW will seem hopefull one minute, then very cold and distant with a "so what" attitude the next. I am assuming that is because after I talk to her, she'll talk to SIL about what we said, and SIL then shoots it all down. She probably tells my WW "Hey, we got rid of our husbands so that we can party and have fun!" It is interesting to note that I am a social drinker (one or two with friends), and SIL's BH doesn't party AT ALL. Both WW and SIL left thier H for SCUMBAG-LOSER-DIRTBAG-ALCOHOLICS!!! And of course, the OM in my sitch is in JAIL for his bullcrap.

My WW has admitted to being "infatuated" with OM, but she doesn't know why. Every time I ask her why she is doing this or that, or why she didn't communicate with me during the M, or why she feels the way she does...she tells me she doesn't know. She does seem to be starting to realise that she has problems that she needs professional help for. I guess that is why I am putting off Plan B for now, even after all the ill will she has dumped on my head. She has problems, I am convinced of it. She would never have given up her children before. She did this time. The tone of her voice, the things she says, and how mean she gets with me on occasion are just not like her.

I am feeling a bit nervous about WW's impending arrival. I have no idea when she'll be here, or if she is even going to come. Half of me doesn't want to see her, and wishes she would just walk out of our lives completely, never to be seen or heard from again. The children would eventually forget about her, and I could truly move on. The other half of me though...wants to embrace her, kiss her, and make love with her. To find the right words to convince her to repent of her actions, undo the damage she has the power to undo, and to get professional help. I wrestle with these feelings everyday...I am tired of feeling so torn. I hardly see or speak to her as it is...and I still feel this everyday. Thats another reason for not writing a Plan B letter. I don't feel, at this time, that it will help me feel any better.

I don't know how I am going to handle things today. Maybe someone could give some advise on how I should be today?

Dimmu

Dimmu...

sorry but the time is at hand for you to get tough...

Time for you to focus soley and 10000000000000 percent on your children...and their well being alone...

enough with the you miss her stuff...

this woman has had several affairs...and

HAS ABANDONED A THREE YEAR OLD AND A SIX YEAR OLD....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

THEIR OWN MOTHER...

INEXUCASLBE CURRENT AND ONGOING BEHAVIOR.....

AND YOU MUST OPT AND CHOOSE OUT OF THE CHAOS SHE BRINGS TO THESE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PERIOD.!!!!!!!!!!

Until she does right by her children..
until she either begins a relationship that is worthy of their fears of abandonment and their own mother CARING for them....

Time for you to seek legal counsel..

asap...

you must seek full custody of the children
you must document all but mostly lack there of interaction with the children...
you must do everything in your power so that she does not take these children away from you and in to her messed up chaos....

marriage rebuilding...your relationship with her is secondary to the great harm she is capable of inflicting onto these children..

the chances of her exposing them to other men is high and at great risk.....
the chances of her attempting to take them away from you is high and you must protect them...

you must must do all this inspite of your FEELINGS

any woman that chooses other men over their own 6 and 3 year old....are not worthy of you...

1. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK...NOT TODAY OR TOMORROW..NONE FROM YOU...IF SHE BRINGS IT UP EVASIVE TATICS...

2. NO POWER STRUGGLING ANY THING LIKE A SILLY SHREK MOVIE...SAY I AM SORRY MY MOMS BUYING IT UPSET YOU...AND SAY NO MORE..

3. YOU ARE AT GREAT RISK FOR THIS WOMAN TO BAIT YOU INTO SOME TYPE OF ALTERCATION IN WHICH SHE HAS YOU ARRESTED...

4. NO ALONE TIME WITH HER....

5. NO ALONE TIME WITH CHILDREN....meaning you be in the same house...when she visits...even better with a witness of family member...etc...but be in the other room...no relationship talk....

no interactions with her besides how are you...
blah blah blah...

no emotion besides even keeled rational pleasantness...INSPITE of your pain..

the stakes are higher they are your own childrens well being...

the fact that she can walk away and elect to bring such pain to innocent children...should at this time quell any feel good feelings you have for her....

As a man the chips are stacked against you..but this is the hill you die on..
but you don't let on that this is the direction you are moving...

you on monday seek counsel..
seek out local charities/churches that would have contact in to the systems that can assist with day care and prove your accountability...

ARK

Thank you Ark, for your reply.

The half of me that doesn't want to see her ever again totally agrees with you. Its the side of me that knows she has a problem is having the problem of completely abandoning her. I do have it to where she isn't taking the kids out of state with her. I don't have the cash at the moment to hire a family lawyer, so I have to take everything one step at a time, all stealth like. I am working on the full custody situation, and I am documenting everything of note.

I will post back later, as my WW just showed up, and I can't be in here on MB right now...

Dimmu

Dimmu,
Ark’s post you is very interesting. This normally temperate influence taking this kind of stand is very telling. Very! Even more telling then the words he posted to however, is the underlying frustration with you that he is communicating. Your response to him bears this out.

~”The half of me that doesn't want to see her ever again totally agrees with you. Its the side of me that knows she has a problem is having the problem of completely abandoning her. I do have it to where she isn't taking the kids out of state with her. I don't have the cash at the moment to hire a family lawyer, so I have to take everything one step at a time, all stealth like. I am working on the full custody situation, and I am documenting everything of note.”~

Legal aid is available in many forms, so lets be kind and just put this kind of rationalization aside and make believe that you didn’t even write it. That leaves the question of will. That is, do you see what you need to do and do you have the “will” to do it? That is the only question here that has any relevance. You loving her and she loving you and her being “sick” and you wanting to save her and on and on and on are all very dramatic and emotional statements but their importance pales in the cold light of reality.

Reality is, children needing a safe secure place to live and grow up. Reality is, that those children’s interests be placed ahead of all the dramatic assertions about love that either of their parents make, now or in the future. Reality is that they deserve at least one parent who is going to place their welfare first and make the adult decisions and follow through with the adult actions that is going to make their world the place they deserve to grow up in. You are not providing that! That your WW is sick is her excuse. What is your excuse?

Coach

Psst Coach,

Ark is a girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dimmu,

I wholeheartedly agree with Ark's comments. Remember that I KNOW what you are going through because I to was married to a woman who was very much like your WW. It is time for you to step up to the plate and do the right thing which is to protect yourself AND your children from this self destructing woman. Please don't play with fire for the ones that are going to get burned will be your children.

I'm not going to lecture you too much, its all been said here. I won’t advise you on your M relationship because I haven't been too good on my own, what I can advise is on the children’s care because its what I do for a living in child protection.

Unfortunately yours is case I see all too often, and sad to say most don’t have a Dad or a Mom like you to love them and care for them.

Lets disregard the all the crap she has done to you as her H, lets look at her actions as someone who has legal access & responsibility to children.

She is involved in drugs. So much so she almost had you set up for supply/possession. Maybe I have it wrong but I thought that was a criminal offence in my country and yours. In fact in most countries
Drugs + kids = abuse

She abandoned the care, love and support of her 3 & 6 year old and actually took them to another state to get rid of them & you.
Abandonment + kids = abuse

She has failed to supply support and care and maintain children as a parent over many weeks.
Deny care/love/support + kids = abuse

She is/was living with a convicted criminal who broke conditions of parole & is back in jail & associated with fellow criminal associates.
Placing minors in positions of moral imprudence and exposure to criminal/immoral actions = abuse

Dimmu, if she was investigated by my office we would not only remove the children, we would only allow supervised visits. If they were lucky they would have the other parent like you for us to give the children to. You see its not that parents who do this set out to hurt children, its just that they do. That’s the fact you need to act on. Not the intent, but the results.

That’s all that matters.

I’m also certainly not saying that maybe she will eventually, one day, come to her senses and again be a responsible mother. She might well do so. But that is not now.
She may even came to you and want to be your wife again, I don’t know.

What I do know is that the children now rely on Dad to bring them up in love, safety and security.
That’s your job now, as lonely, as miserable, as painful as it is right now, that’s your job..!!!
Please don’t give anymore excuses to yourself on this your children need you to act to protect them. Go to legal aid or a men’s/fathers support group, or a parents group, whatever and get that help. You know its there and you should be using it. Please, please go get it.

I also think you should be getting a separation agreement with the house & things at the same time, Its immoral that your wife has thrown her children & you out of the family home. My goodness Dimmu with that action alone I would be able to get even Germaine Greer to give you custody and 60% of assets and weekly support from your wife!!

NOW GO ACT!!

We just got back from FIL's. He supports me in that he doesn't support her actions, or her A, nor does he like OM.

Please, everyone, please believe me that I take all of your advise into consideration. Please believe me when I say that I know where you all are coming from. But also, please believe that I am a struggling Christian, and that vows mean much to me. I may be many things, both positive and negative, but I strive not to lie, or say vows that I am unwilling to uphold. I truly believe my WW is sick...she didn't give up the kids during the first A, nor has she ever done any actions akin to her recent actions. In sickness and in health, until death do us part...

Half of me...the one who is ready to run away...is the part of me that I hate. Its the dark half that was born from her first A...the one who followed instincts...the disrespectful judgements, the angry outburts....I just could not handle what was happening. I was unprepared, caught off guard, convinced that Dimmu could not be cheated on. My arrogance was my downfall...

Now here I am, darker than ever, though trying not to be. The half that wants top heed all of your advice, also wants vengeance on the OM, and on WW's A enabling/supporting family. This half wants WW to exit our lives, never to talk or see us again. This half views love as a weakness. I embrace this side when I have trouble getting up in the morning, or when I want to die.

The other half (I must sound crazy), believes that God wants me to do what I can to help my WW. I know you are all saying that the kids come first, and believe me...they do. My WW has conceded to my demands that she does not take the children out of state, and I went with her to FIL's, and will go with her wherever she goes with them. She isn't stupid, and she knows she screwed up royally with her actions-OM, the plants, abandoning us, not paying agreed upon child support in a timely manner, removing us from a situation where we all had medical coverage (but now we don't because of different states), etc.

The biggest thing is this pain. I have cut friends off for backstabbing me. I have been firm with people who were screwing up business deals. I have told people that tower over me to back off or else...but with my WW, I just cannot control my emotions. The pain is becoming unbearable. It pains me when I am unable to communicate, and I am in pain when I see her. I can't stand it. I get angry and sad with each new morning, and I exist only for the children, as I am thier best hope. Sure, I can hide the negative and sad feelings when they are with me...but the pain is there nonetheless, and is eating me up. I'm afraid that unless I can put these feelings under control, or get a sure sign from God, that there will be nothing left of me to be consumed. I'll be a cynical shell of a man forever.

My brain was hard wired to be with one woman for life. I lost my virginity to one woman, then met and married my W. These events make feel like my brain has short circuited. Thats why I keep doing what I am doing. I am trying to get my WW to see that she needs help, so that she will get help. How can I face my Maker, unless I exhaust all avenues?

And about custody...going to court is one of my fears, because of the Child Custody Jurisdiction Act. No charges from the raid have been filed on anyone yet(investigation is in progress). I cannot jump the gun, and take her to court for full custody. I am trying to get her to sign full custody. WIC won't help me out until I prove full custody (due to parents living in different states), so that is the ammo I am currently working with. The situation is delicate, and I am dealing with it with stealth and logic.

So basically, I must try not to feel like dying, and to try and keep my emotions under control. She is still here (she is with kids, I had a break so I can post), so I have to go. I'll update with anything new that happens.

Dimmu

Well...........not much to say here. As sad as this situation is (and believe me this is all a tremendous trajedy) I must say that this situation further convinces me that my opinions on a lot of advice here are right on. Sadly, it will take a trajedy to let this poor soul come to his senses because he himself is caught up in the Christian "marriage building" Fog. UYYY VEEE <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

lemonman,

I hear what you are saying. I have read many of your posts, and I understand where you are coming from. As far as I am concerned, the tragedies have already happened(could they get much worse? I ponder on this daily). But, as I have also said, I cannot control my feelings. Believe me, I am curious as to why part of me still loves her. I have stated in other posts that there is a slim chance of saving my M, and that I agree with others that it probably isn't worth saving(on the days where my logic and reason overcome my emotions). But what if? And, as she is the mother of my children, she must get the help she needs, if she is going to continue to be around them.

At any rate...this visit I am having with my WW is interesting at best. She has spout off with all of the usual Fog Talk Handbook speech. But the doubts in OM and what she has done were planted a couple of weeks ago, and I see signs of fruits of my endeavors. WW is trying to block out that OM slept with a well know local s1ut in the days prior to her having her PA with him. I won't let her forget that. I haven't given much of a thought to LB's (forget Plan A today...), and have brought up the positive attributes of those she left behind (her "good" friends and relatives she moved away from), and reminded her of the negative attributes of the corrupting people she has surrounded herself with.

Her fog is telling her to one thing, her logic is telling her another. We shall see which prevails in the end. The children are safe, she doesn't have a leg to stand on if we go to court. While it is a gamble(because of the Child Custody Jurisdiction Act), I will soon have court transcripts from OM's hearing that my atty is getting, which will prove to a NY court that all was not well in PA, under my WW's roof with the OM living there. Plus, my daughter remembers all too well the drinking that was happening in front of them, as well as my WW kissing and holding OM in front of her, mere days after we were dumped off (and she has complained of stomach aches ever since). I have sound character witnessess...she has none. I have been studying up on laws, and she has not. My WW's advice comes from some of the worst kind of degenerates on the face of this earth, and she has no financial access to a lawyer.

Please, everyone, please don't believe that I am hopelessly lost and blind to my situation. Just emotionally confused from time to time. Despising her one day, missing her the next. A paradox that is weighing heavily on my soul.

Dimmu

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Dimmu ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dimmu:
<strong> lemonman,

I hear what you are saying. I have read many of your posts, and I understand where you are coming from. As far as I am concerned, the tragedies have already happened(could they get much worse? I ponder on this daily). But, as I have also said, I cannot control my feelings. Believe me, I am curious as to why part of me still loves her. I have stated in other posts that there is a slim chance of saving my M, and that I agree with others that it probably isn't worth saving(on the days where my logic and reason overcome my emotions). But what if? And, as she is the mother of my children, she must get the help she needs, if she is going to continue to be around them.

At any rate...this visit I am having with my WW is interesting at best. She has spout off with all of the usual Fog Talk Handbook speech. But the doubts in OM and what she has done were planted a couple of weeks ago, and I see signs of fruits of my endeavors. WW is trying to block out that OM slept with a well know local s1ut in the days prior to her having her PA with him. I won't let her forget that. I haven't given much of a thought to LB's (forget Plan A today...), and have brought up the positive attributes of those she left behind (her "good" friends and relatives she moved away from), and reminded her of the negative attributes of the corrupting people she has surrounded herself with.

Her fog is telling her to one thing, her logic is telling her another. We shall see which prevails in the end. The children are safe, she doesn't have a leg to stand on if we go to court. While it is a gamble(because of the Child Custody Jurisdiction Act), I will soon have court transcripts from OM's hearing that my atty is getting, which will prove to a NY court that all was not well in PA, under my WW's roof with the OM living there. Plus, my daughter remembers all too well the drinking that was happening in front of them, as well as my WW kissing and holding OM in front of her, mere days after we were dumped off (and she has complained of stomach aches ever since). I have sound character witnessess...she has none. I have been studying up on laws, and she has not. My WW's advice comes from some of the worst kind of degenerates on the face of this earth, and she has no financial access to a lawyer.

Please, everyone, please don't believe that I am hopelessly lost and blind to my situation. Just emotionally confused from time to time. Despising her one day, missing her the next. A paradox that is weighing heavily on my soul.

Dimmu </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dimmu:

You don't owe anyone any explanation for what you are doing (not the least of all me ). You are a man, a father and you (and your poor children) will live with the consequences of your decisions. I think you are heavily in a "fog" of your own (even though you may know this already) and just probably don't see the depths of this yet. I know I can't help you here, I can only offer you a prayer. Someone (Coach ) had a marvelous post to someone else on another thread BUT I think this applies to you and your children.

Posted by Coach:
"Reality is, children needing a safe secure place to live and grow up. Reality is, that those children’s interests be placed ahead of all the dramatic assertions about love that either of their parents make, now or in the future. Reality is that they deserve at least one parent who is going to place their welfare first and make the adult decisions and follow through with the adult actions that is going to make their world the place they deserve to grow up in. You are not providing that! That your WW is sick is her excuse. What is your excuse?"

Good luck in your situation. I hope you find the inner peace to make this situation right for yourself and children and get out of the "paradox" you are in.I have only best wishes for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please, everyone, please don't believe that I am hopelessly lost and blind to my situation. Just emotionally confused from time to time. Despising her one day, missing her the next. A paradox that is weighing heavily on my soul.

Hi Dimmu!

I for one (and probably no one else) believes you are hopelessly lost. You are working hard at improving your situation for yourself and for your children. My gosh, 27 years old with 2 kids going through this hell.

I have read your post since day one and know you struggle with social anxiety and do not have a job right now, because you were a stay at home dad and WW was bread winner.

Want to clarify to others reading that may not know the whole story. And the possible legal repercussions of the statement WW signed implicating you in drug activity.

Now with that said -

Dimmu your mind is a very powerful thing. It will help you break free from your attachment/love for your wife if you let it. Stop thinking of the love you have for her and the vows you made. Vows are useless when one has completely abandoned them and left you and children alone and destitute while she frolics with jailbird. Your mind will work for you or against you, depending on what you dwell on. Don't allow yourself to think of the love feelings right now, put them away. You can still love your WW from afar and detach so that you are not destroyed by her sickness/fog/drug use/partying and whatever else her problem is. Like a bad penny she will be around for a long time, don't you doubt that for one second. Now is the time for you to change yourself so that good boundaries are in place and she does not wreck havock on your life and heart again in the future.

As a Christian you put GOD first, and honor him by taking care of the children that He entrusted into your care. And by taking care of yourself so that you can fulfill His plan for you and for your children.

I suggested you read "The Shipping News" because of the simialarities I see in you and the character in the book. Do you see them? Are you starting to see that you are allowing her to dictate the kind of life and person you will be?

I am routing for you Dimmu and I have a lot of respect for you. You are here and working hard at this I know.

Keep doing it. You will get there.

I know too that you are working behind the scenes in the way that you see best to change your current situation.

But it doesn't hurt to get our 2 cents as well. And I know that is what you are posting for, some outside input, and different perspectives.

weaver

basic rule and concept number one is that you can not change or control your wife at all....

that she alone is responsible for her choices and actions.....and her action require of you going to great and scary lengths to protect the children from her chaos...

this is seperate from marriage rebuilding and seperate from your and her relationships and all the problems....

you can not glob them together....though you can work on two seperate levels on this...

first level is that you protect your children inspite of your feelings and fears...and you start by finding a support group...

check your local Catholic church for seperated, divorced, widowed group...

check in the internet in your local area for parents without partners...

check on the internet local dad support group..

you need a mentor...to ground you and help keep you on a steady course...

because your emotions deceive and cloud your actions.....
your emotions right now can't be trusted...

you need to push past the feelings...

you need to start journal..

journal your fears..
journal you hopes
journal what you want....
see how to get there....

stop all power struggling with her..over shrek movies...over things she says you stopped her from doing...

change your own language..
change your own way of speaking to her....

NO RELATIONSHIP TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO TALK OF THE OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dimmu I find Mr. Ark very attractive...
I found him attractive pre kidlets...
I find him more attractive these days...because of the type of father he is...

attract your wife back to stability by being stable....
by not powerstruggling and argueing...

she calls you ...and then makes you feel like crap...that is her mode of operation..to push her own self loathing on to you....

your children are risk for being pawns...

you must reinforce the homefront on those issues....

your wife is not evil but she is NOT making choices that serve her own childre well at all...

you need a mentor...
you need someone in your town who has walked the walk you are on....

NOT ONE MORE PEEP ABOUT THE OM FROM YOUR LIPS..AND WHEN SHE BRINGS HIM UP CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND OR WALK AWAY...OR HANG UP KINDLY...!!!!

Remove yourself way above that chaos...
speaking of the OM is easy stuff for it is a huge huge divergence from her own behaviors...don't do it...
and don't you bring him up cause you get to caught up in the drama....

protect the children...
ARK

Your devotion to your vows is admirable but you do your vows no favor by allowing continued contact with your WW. Eventually your Taker will take control and your vows will fly out the window. Plan B is long overdue.

My WW just left to back to PA (Penns.). It was gut wrenching, to say the least. To see this woman who is NOT my W, but some changed form of what she was...a doppleganger...leave us again, for at least another week or so. I wanted to reply to some excerpts from posts that were made while I was visiting with her.

lemonman:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think you are heavily in a "fog" of your own (even though you may know this already) and just probably don't see the depths of this yet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is true. I am in a fog, and I realise it. It makes me angers and saddens me to be in and out of it all of the time.

weaver:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Want to clarify to others reading that may not know the whole story. And the possible legal repercussions of the statement WW signed implicating you in drug activity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I have mentioned this in my other threads...I almost stick to those other threads, as to not confuse anyone who hasn't read them, and thus not know the whole story.

I have mentioned, that she told her dad that she did this out of panic. I try to place myself in her shoes...she is totally in fog and with OM. She has convinced herself she doesn't love me. Now there are a bunch of state troopers in her living room, saying who knows what to her. After talking to her about it, it became clear that she is ignorant of the law. She felt that she could shift the blame on me, and that the cops would let it go, because I am in a different state. But what she didn't realise is that a lot of cops want to through as many people in jail as possible. That in the state of PA, what OM was doing in the house are felonies (would have been misdemeanors in NY). After talking to her and her dad, I do not believe that she did it out of pure maliciousness, just ignorance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dimmu your mind is a very powerful thing. It will help you break free from your attachment/love for your wife if you let it. Stop thinking of the love you have for her and the vows you made. Vows are useless when one has completely abandoned them and left you and children alone and destitute while she frolics with jailbird. Your mind will work for you or against you, depending on what you dwell on. Don't allow yourself to think of the love feelings right now, put them away. You can still love your WW from afar and detach so that you are not destroyed by her sickness/fog/drug use/partying and whatever else her problem is. Like a bad penny she will be around for a long time, don't you doubt that for one second. Now is the time for you to change yourself so that good boundaries are in place and she does not wreck havock on your life and heart again in the future.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is my daily struggle. To overcome my emotions with my mind. Sometimes, I feel that the feelings that I have for her are irrational. I sometimes wish I could just shut my feelings off. I have been trying to make changes. Like playing guitar again, which I had given up while with my W. Its hard to detach when I dream about her every night. She has said things that sound to me like she is starting to regret the things that she has done. And I have read on MB that many WS's do similar things before figuring out that they have made a mistake. I have read that a lot of WS's give up thier kids, jobs, homes, family, everything...to have an A.

But, even with that said, I am still going to go Plan B...just not as soon as I said I was going to. I just can't do it yet, with her showing signs of regret, and doubt in the OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am routing for you Dimmu and I have a lot of respect for you. You are here and working hard at this I know.

Keep doing it. You will get there.

I know too that you are working behind the scenes in the way that you see best to change your current situation.

But it doesn't hurt to get our 2 cents as well. And I know that is what you are posting for, some outside input, and different perspectives.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot thank you enough weaver, for your support. I do come here alot for other people's input. MB helps get me through some tough times, I get great advice, and 2x4's when I need them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Also, I have been enjoying The Shipping News. I usually don't read books like it, but I find it quite interesting. I do see a few parallels with my situation. Thank you for recommending it!

Ark:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">basic rule and concept number one is that you can not change or control your wife at all....

that she alone is responsible for her choices and actions.....and her action require of you going to great and scary lengths to protect the children from her chaos...

this is seperate from marriage rebuilding and seperate from your and her relationships and all the problems....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this is true...but I can't help but feel that I am reaching her to an extent...I know my W, but this WW isn't her. But I think my W is in there somewhere, reaching for a helping hand to grasp...and I want to be her knight that can pull her from the void. Maybe this is just arrogant thinking on my part.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can not glob them together....though you can work on two seperate levels on this...

first level is that you protect your children inspite of your feelings and fears...and you start by finding a support group... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand everyone's concern for my children. I would be as well, if I was someone else, reading my posts. I have everything under control with thier protection and safety. I have established with my WW, strict rules for visitation. My WW has no desire to go to court over any of this. SHe cannot take them to PA state, and I must go with her if she leaves with them (as I did today when we went to WW's dad's house). They have food, shelter, I am in contact with thier teachers, and try to make sure they get to have fun.

I do make many efforts to deal with my M without them knowing what is going on. I talk to my WW on the phone in a seperate room, or chat with WW on Yahoo. I informed my WW that I will not allow my children to be around corrupting influences, and that if I have to, I will get a restraining order on OM to keep him away from my children. My WW knows that I will do everything in my power to protect my children. Not to brag, but I have formed a small network of informants, some of them not even knowing that they provide me with usefull information. And having my atty boosts intellegence gathering x 20. My WW is flabbergasted at some of the things that I know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you need a mentor...to ground you and help keep you on a steady course...

because your emotions deceive and cloud your actions.....
your emotions right now can't be trusted...

you need to push past the feelings...

you need to start journal..

journal your fears..
journal you hopes
journal what you want....
see how to get there....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I'll look into getting a mentor. The thought of it is worrisome though. I was IC for a year, and I think that IC did more damage to my M than good...and my WW is IC with a different person, but at the same place! She is still seeing this guy, yet she is still having A (EA for now) with OM...

I have a journal started. I do put some of my feelings in there. Usually its just a documentation of what the kids and I do, and what WW does with them (which isn't much). Sometimes, I don't write in it, because I ger depressed when I record some of the sadder moments, like after speaking with WW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">stop all power struggling with her..over shrek movies...over things she says you stopped her from doing...

change your own language..
change your own way of speaking to her....

NO RELATIONSHIP TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO TALK OF THE OM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I try to avoid powerstruggles. They were a big contributor to the decline of my M. I remember reading your Plan A post, and your post to me earlier. I try to apply certain aspects to my situation. I told my WW I was sorry that she was upset over the DVD, and reminded her my mom did it, not me.

I am failing miserably with OM and R talk. I can't help myself. It is an inexcusable weakness. I know I have to try harder. Actually, I didn't talk about R or OM much for a few weeks...but I am going through withdrawl, and felt the "need" to talk to her about them today. In a way, I'm glad I did. She is starting to doubt OM. I have told her a few things I have dug up on him, and its tormenting her that I won't tell her my sources of info. So, everytime she sees or talks to him...she has to wonder...


Sorry for not replying to everyone else...I wanted to, but I didn't have enough chances to use the PC while WW was here, plus we were at her dads for about two hours. It has been...and interesting, if not sad day. The whole experience left me feeling pretty down, and gave me a headache(naproxen, gotta love it). Its the first time I have cried in front of my WW in a few weeks. I was doing good, until the withdrawl kicked in...

Dimmu

sorry TMCM, didn't see your last post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your devotion to your vows is admirable but you do your vows no favor by allowing continued contact with your WW. Eventually your Taker will take control and your vows will fly out the window. Plan B is long overdue. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must reread about the Giver/Taker. I haven't felt much different, other than the usual emotional rollercoaster. Though I did LB a bit, and had more of an attitude with my WW today than I have had since 9/26...maybe thats a sign of my Taker getting p1ss3d...something I should think about.

Dimmu,

It's time for a break. Check out It's peanut butter jelly time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks TMCM!
There is nothing like a little comic relief after the day I had.

Peanut Butter Jelly!
Peanut Butter Jelly!
Peanut Butter Jelly with a baseball bat!

LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dimmu

OK dimmu here's where I grow weary...
and here's where I get a little tough.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Get ready...
AND
consider yourself warned....

you, you, you, are becoming the man with a thousand excuses....

and here's the one that bugs me...

Maybe I'll look into getting a mentor. The thought of it is worrisome though. I was IC for a year, and I think that IC did more damage to my M than good...and my WW is IC with a different person, but at the same place! She is still seeing this guy, yet she is still having A (EA for now) with OM...

explain to me how finding some other fathers, and men in your area that have had to walk the tough road of becoming primary caregiver...AND perhaps trying to salvage a marriage...have ANYTHING to do with some crappola counselor.

YET we know you are resourceful and smart because you say this...

Not to brag, but I have formed a small network of informants, some of them not even knowing that they provide me with usefull information. And having my atty boosts intellegence gathering x 20. My WW is flabbergasted at some of the things that I know

when you use this energy to protect the children it is a good thing...when you use it to gather drama and information about the OM it is wasteful...cause there is nothing you can do about it...

dimmu..

you are doing a fabulous job protecting your children...but peoples fear is that some day in the near future you are going to have a post about how wife showed up with the sherriff and took the kids away...filed a pfa and now I can only see my kids once a week under supervision...

it's happened hear before...
it is devistating...

and also what committment of time energy and money did she make to the children...or is her plan to continue on this sporadic plan...because that is chaotic to the kids...

dimmu the other thing is that we humans cling to the known...and shun the unknown out of fear...
you think and focus on you wife and the love out of fear and because it is known to you...

in some ways we are challenging to take your love for her to even a higher level and plain...in which you can see the bad and evil part.....and not give a rats behind about it...and be strong enough to not ever ever cave to it...

the OM should be such a non-entity to you...

anyone trying to get or keep a spouse out fear will fail...
period.
without question...

you feel powerless because you focus too heavily on the OM
and
on who your wife used to be...

set your goals on who your wife can be...

but also know with open eyes...her track record is bad...really bad....

and you must prepare for that as well....

ark

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Good morning ark. Thank you for your reply. You make some good points, and I would like to respond to them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">explain to me how finding some other fathers, and men in your area that have had to walk the tough road of becoming primary caregiver...AND perhaps trying to salvage a marriage...have ANYTHING to do with some crappola counselor. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to look into getting a mentor. I just mentioned my anxiety that I feel from thinking about it. That isn't going to change, unless I get on some kind of anti-anxiety medication. I have had anxiety, slight agoraphobia, and occasional panic attacks since my WW's first A. I was comparing counseling to getting a mentor, because I feel the same anxiety that I felt when I started seeing a counselor. I do have a phone number though, that would be able to help me get meds, help me get medical for the kids, and probably be able to help be find a mentor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YET we know you are resourceful and smart because you say this...

Not to brag, but I have formed a small network of informants, some of them not even knowing that they provide me with usefull information. And having my atty boosts intellegence gathering x 20. My WW is flabbergasted at some of the things that I know

when you use this energy to protect the children it is a good thing...when you use it to gather drama and information about the OM it is wasteful...cause there is nothing you can do about it... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The informants are a couple of friends from near where she lives. They are the ones that told me about the raid on WW's house, and what was being done and said in my absence. The other informants are WW's relatives. And my attorney has done the background checks on OM. All contact with them is over the phone.

I'm not going to lie. This situation with OM is personal. This dirtbag lived under my roof before I started getting suspicious...he stayed in my BIL's room. Supposedly he had no place to go...blah blah blah. I fixed his computer, did favors...while he was trying to get my W. In fact, my blood boils as I think about all of this. I have seen pictures on WW's digital camera of this guy playing with my son...holding him upside down, throwing him up in the air...while I was away taking FIL home. Its not just the A...its the humiliating, and insulting way it all went down..then the whole raid, and them trying to pin it on me. I know that I am supposed to forgive and forget. But there is a point in a persons life, after they have had to deal with one negative thing after another, where it becomes enough. I read many, many posts where BH's say "I don't think I can control myself if I am in the same room as OM". This is utterly true in my case. In fact, before my WW dumped us off, there were at least to confrontations that almost led to me putting OM in the hospital. The only thing that stopped me from doing so, was my children, and the possibilty of losing them due to assault charges. So, through legal means, I will be a thorn in his side. He will regret what he has done. Is that wrong of me? Maybe it is, but I cannot help how I feel. My apologies if this offends anyone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you are doing a fabulous job protecting your children...but peoples fear is that some day in the near future you are going to have a post about how wife showed up with the sherriff and took the kids away...filed a pfa and now I can only see my kids once a week under supervision...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand people's fear of this happening. I doubt that she will get a NY sherriff to come here to do that though. Both kids lost school time due to her selfeshness, and they would lose more school time in order to transfer them back to PA. It would also make her look bad. She had nothing to do with thier schooling. I was in contact with thier teachers the whole time. WW wouldn't even go to open house. She abandoned us. There was the raid where MJ plants were found in her house. She chose to leave the father of her children for a common criminal, who was busted with not only the plants, but a bag of pot and paraphanelia, scales, and numerous other illegal items. WW and the dirtbags she has chosen to hang out with have partied in front of my kids multiple times. My daughter informed me that the yard had beer bottles strewn about. Granted, my WW has cleaned up her act a little bit, but the damage has been done. Also, I have never been arrested or had a ticket in my life, whereas my WW has. Around February 26th, my children and I will have lived in NY for 6 months, allowing NY to assume jurisdiction over a custody case. I have other things going on as well. WIC won't help me until custody has been established (because WW lives in PA), and I informed my WW of this. We are in talks about her signing over custody, so that I don't run into these problems.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and also what committment of time energy and money did she make to the children...or is her plan to continue on this sporadic plan...because that is chaotic to the kids... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She hasn't been forthcoming with child support yet. SHe is complaining of lack of funds, but she won't move out of the big house we were in with the really high rent. She bought a car cd player, then said she didn't have the money to visit the kids the following weekend. She rarely calls them, but she occasionally writes them a letter. When she comes to see them, she stays for a few hours, then goes back to PA. The kids are getting used to it. They didn't even cry when she left last night. My son is insecure though. If I leave the room, and he doesn't know where I am, he'll start calling out for me. "Daddy! Where are you!?!?" "I am in the bathroom son!" And this is WW's fault, for abandoning us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">dimmu the other thing is that we humans cling to the known...and shun the unknown out of fear...
you think and focus on you wife and the love out of fear and because it is known to you...

in some ways we are challenging to take your love for her to even a higher level and plain...in which you can see the bad and evil part.....and not give a rats behind about it...and be strong enough to not ever ever cave to it...

the OM should be such a non-entity to you...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WW is not my W. My W is in there somewhere, I can sense it. She is starting to admit that she has problems, and that is the first step for anyone with mental/emotional problems in seeking help. She told me she will seek some real help. I do give a rats behind, because the bad and evil is not her. She regretted the first A. I didn't know about MB then, and didn't handle the A well at all. We have had marital problems ever since, and I have contibuted to the state of our M. DJ, AO, you name it. And she became very stubborn. Everything was a powerstruggle. Only in the past couple of months did she start to become "bad and evil", and as I have said, I think she is in the beginning process of regretting it.

So, I am doing everything that I can, within the boundaries of the law, to protect my children, keep OM away from them (once he is out of jail), and try to help my W, which in turn, helps me. I am focusing on bettering myself, and to get past my problems such as the anxiety, and to get everything in my life as tsable as possible.

Its the biggest, most complex challenge I have ever had to face in my life. My torn emotional state doesn't help matters, but I am dealing with it. I have hope and faith that I will prevail. Everyone who has posted to me has helped me in some way. I have used advice from here to get my mind thinking of other things when I am down, to end arguments with my WW before they get out of hand (I love your Plan A post ark!), and to help my WW see some of the errors of her ways.

I am trying...

Dimmu