Okay, I've packed up his office so when he comes home from his rendezvous weekend it will be ready for him to move to his new abode. I am scared to death of his reaction. Counsellor said he's taken my marriage of 19 years, my love of him for 25 years, and possibly my job and that he has to at least let me have the security and comfort of my home right now. I know the few days I spent with my daughter were hell (not because she did anything but because there was nothing familiar, mine, around me - it was all hers). I feel a whole lot physically better since I came home yesterday. BTW - we live in a community of 2500 people. Most adults it seems are on their 2nd-4th relationship - they just keep changing partners! It makes me sick and there just doesn't seem to be any sense of shame by the townspeople who have As or who have family members who do. We who feel shame for them are a dying breed. And that is a comment I don't dare breathe out loud in this town or anywhere else. I just wanted it stated here for the record. Whatever happened to the good old days when OW where shunned!!!
When I found out at the end of August of the A, he went and ended it with her. We spent the next 2 months together _ I became even more committed to him but he couldn't forget her (although he certainly treated me like he was). Then he said it was over Nov.3. He stayed in the house while I ran away to my family for comfort. He left for a visit to her on Nov 11 (6 hours away) and I expect him back Nov.14 for work the next day. His office is in our home. I left voicemail on his phone that I was home and we needed to talk (counsellor and mediator advice). He hasn't called. I packed up his office to make his departure quicker. Now I'm afraid he'll flip because he needs to be at work 8:00 Monday morning and there is no office. DID I DO WRONG? If he'd been here we could have treid to get this done more efficiently??? YIKES!!!!!
Can you please help me with some ideas before he gets back. I don't know if I'm still on Plan A or what. My workers say he can't stay here - that he needs to start seeing the consequences of his decision (that I wasn't allowed to be part of) and that means leaving the house. Because of the 6 hour travel time to her place am I forcing him to quit his job and move to her? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Manitoba,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DID I DO WRONG? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not in my opinion. You will show him a strong, decisive spouse that has boundaries. Be prepared, it may seem to backfire on you because his answer will probably be nasty " final straw, you are responsible for this, you broke yada yada yada!!!"

Listen, but don't hear what he says and stick to not permitting lies, manipulation, and tears to guide you or your actions. Call him on everything so that he KNOWS he may do things and get away with them but you are not going to sit there and let him lie to you. If you insist on honesty and back it up early in your "dance", I feel that it will help you to truly come out of this with your self respect intact.

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

Okay, you need to get a plan. Usually here it is suggested that you start with Plan A. You can read all about it on the link in my sig line.

It will be very difficult for you to Plan A him if he is moved out. I can't argue with your counselor though. I think it is good that you have moved home.

Is there any way that your WH can live in part of the house?

Whatever happens, he will be very angry. That is when you need to be calm. Tell him that his actions hurt you, and you want to save your marriage. The angrier he gets, the calmer you have to be.

Thanks Cymanca - I know I have to be strong and decisive. I am one of the most famous doormats of all times so I'm praying for strenght and guidance. Not easy for someone who's been out of the flock for over 35 years.
Believer, I think I've already done Plan A. He did give her up physically and went back. He's told me it's over for us and he needs to see if he and she can make a go of it (Damn him - he wasn't even sure of THAT when he said it was over for us). So I think we passed plan A time already.
I feel like he's gone and know I have to figure out how to get him back. He'd done no thinking about anything - family, finances, house, properties, job, nothing but her. Our kids think he's lost his mind! But if tells me it's over how can we live in the same house. And he's already ended his recommitment to me and gone to see her (remember 6 hours away yet). They both work for the same company and will be in touch by email and phone as they share accounts. So they have to self-destruct their own relationship, don't they? She's 16 years younger, attractive, he's 15-30 lbs overweight (to be kind), has horrific snoring (sleep aepnea) problem, some sexual dysfunction (which was coming along great in our 2 months together), and frankly, I think she's after his personality not his looks. He's a generous, kind, wonderful man. Aren't I pathetic?! Surely she'll wake up soon and realize she can certainly do better than a man nearing retirement and she's not even 40?
I have done what Binder suggested and prepared a Plan B letter. I'm pasting it here for for the "Experts to Massage" as Binder puts it. Also to Binder, all of the kids are adults, SS35, S34, SS33, D29, SS27. None live at home although SS33 and SS35 are here 2 or 3 days a week as they are renovating a business owned by SS35. This town is 2 hours from the city all the kids and their families live in.

Binder, here's the Plan B letter. Can you and the others please fix it for me?

November 12, 2004

Ross,

I want you to know that, today, I still love you. I don’t expect that feeling to change overnight but others tell me that it will fade with time. You know “Time heals all wounds”. When I married you it was for the rest of our lives. I still want to be married to you for the rest of my life. With all the barriers down like they were after you recommitted to me before you told me it was over between us and you were tired of lying to me.
The unilateral decisions you have been making over the last months are too painful for me. I hope it doesn’t destroy the love I have for you but it is having a toll. I don’t know how long I can keep the positive feelings of our love stronger than the painful ones of your betrayal.
As long as you and she are together we cannot be. That will be extremely difficult given the nature of this property. I think we need to come up with a schedule and means of contact so that you can keep up to date on what needs to be looked after at the house that I can only look after by hiring someone to do it. That’s an expense that we aren’t in the position to be paying, I know. Then you can work at it when I’m out.
I asked you before to come to me to discuss reconciliation when the affair ends. I repeat that here. I felt the love and turmoil in you in the last two months we were together. I heard you tell me you love me. I know you told our family that you love me.
I am asking that you contact me through C Z if you have any issues regarding finances and the house to discuss with me. I will also be obtaining the name of a lawyer on Wednesday when I see her again. Until such time as your affair has ended for good and there is no possibility of it rekindling itself, I ask you not to contact me. The ongoing pain is too hard to handle right now and I need you to respect my need for you to let it start abating.


Bonnie

Manitoba,

Don't make me worry about you after what you posted as the lead post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like he's gone and know I have to figure out how to get him back </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Beside being one of the most common sentiments of a BS, it is THE ATTITUDE WITH THE GREATEST DESTRUCTIVE POWER.

You can not, will not, should not and everything else NOT ever write, utter or think those words again.

Since my WW's A, I have changed to three the number of great truth's known to exist.

1. Death

2. Taxes

3. Ability to change another human being

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

Hi again LIM....don't have time to suggest revisions right now, also it's slow around here on the weekends so others may not be available immediately. Not urgent you have the Plan B letter to give to him as soon as he gets back. You have a little time. It's nice to have it "ready to go" though.

Please read the links I suggested. Also the counseling with the Harleys or Tuppy could likely start this week if you call. Your psychiatrist may be looking out for your well being as opposed to the marriage's. I suggest if you do get him to leave, bring all consequences to bear at once. "Like a thunderclap" to quote Dobson. Create and enhance the crisis for him, don't mitigate it.

November 12, 2004

Ross,

I want you to know that, today, I still love you. When I married you it was for the rest of our lives. I still want to be married to you for the rest of my life and feel like our marriage can be wonderful. But not under the current conditions.

Just know that I know I was not perfect and apologize for my contributions to the problems in our marriage. I deeply regret the many times I could have xxxxxxx [insert your side here - be brief]

The unilateral decisions you have been making over the last months are too painful for me. I feel it eroding the remaining love that I have for you. I don’t know how long I can keep the positive feelings of our love stronger than the painful ones of your betrayal.

It is because of that that I must end contact with you until you have ended all contact with the OW. As long as you and she are together we cannot be in contact.

That will be extremely difficult given the nature of this property. I have come up with a schedule and means of contact so that you can keep up to date on what needs to be looked after at the house that I can only look after by hiring someone to do it. That’s an expense that we aren’t in the position to be paying, I know. Then you can work at it when I’m out.

I will designate C Z as a go between for contact. I would insist that you do not contact me directly unless it is an emergency.

I felt the love and turmoil in you in the last two months we were together. I heard you tell me you love me. I know you told our family that you love me.

Just know that I do love you very much and that we can have great happiness in our marriage, but only if OW is not there. When you have ended contact, please contact me and we can discuss possible reconcilation.

With all my love,


Bonnie

LIM, just on my way out to visit Grandma with the kids, I see you have Cymanca, Believer and Melodylane giving you advice. You couldn't be in better hands.

Cymanca

Don't hold any punches, do you? You and my mediator would get along great! Both straight shooters, tell it like it is without any sugar-coating.
I have maybe 24 hours left until the SHTF. He could act the caring, supportive man he was when he broke the news to me last week, or he could go right off the deep end.
What choices do I have if he does the latter? His yelling cowers me and all my family is 2 hours away. I have no one to come to my rescue here. Friends out here are his as I devoted my life to him and made no friends. And he's the one who told me for years to make some friends. NOW I see why. When I need them, there are none.
What if he won't leave?
I know it would be fatal for the future of our marriage if I let him use the spare room and hang around here every day to do his job and ebay, etc.
So I'm just going slowly (quickly) crazy waiting for the axe to fall.
They have still only spent less than 3 weeks in real time together. Isn't this whole thing a bit ridiculous. For him to through away 25 years together? The respect of his family? The home we toiled over with our bare hands? Little by little as we could afford.
I'm sure he's lost his mind.

Lostinmanitoba,

What I believe that I just read frightens me immensely. You have implied that your H can be physically abusive? If that is the case I would NOT advise you to proceed UNLESS you have another adult present at confrontation. It can be anyone but preferably one that he is either friendly with or has shown some respect for in the past. DO NOT I repeat DO NOT do this without another male adult present. Call a friend, clergy, relative or call your husband and meet him at a public place AND make plans to remove yourself and kids from your home.

PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS POST!!

Lost in Manitoba,

Cymanca's caution is a sober, but appropriate suggestion. You might request the attendance of one or two of your son's or step-sons to be there. A public place is also a good idea as family members can easily get sucked into the whirlwind of emotions. Best be proactive rather than have the RCMP attend to clean up the mess afterwards.

Once he's out, I also suggest getting a lawyer to write up a separation agreement or "minutes of settlement" as it is formally known as. This will spell out that you are the sole occupant of the residence and prevents him from returning at will as well as cleaning out the family possessions. The agreement is rendered void once you have cohabitated again for 180 days consecutively.

I'm not in the psych. business, but your husband sounds like he's embroiled in a classic mid life crisis. You might do some reading on that as well.

No Cymanca - I am definitely NOT afraid of him physically abusing me. He is completely opposed to physical abuse. And all the kids are grown up and 2 hours away.
I was just on the phone with my daughter and we were trying to come up with some ways for me to feel like I can handle the meeting without getting sick or starting to cry. I am determined in my mind to be respectful and calm. I've read elsewhere in MB that I need to be the respectful person so OW will maybe start looking not so good to him.
Please, people, I'm a wuss and looking for strength to get through the meeting.
There is no one here that can be with me through this. One of our friends just called here looking for him. I told him he had gone to be with his girlfriend and when I asked him if he didn't know about it he said yeah but was trying to ignore it. Obviously his friend, not mine. And wishy-washy as well. That's what their all like. I tell you, this is a Peyton Place big time.

Binder, I have asked my mediator to have the lawyer ready with something when I go to see her on Wednesday. I don't know how he's going to react as he was so sorrowful when we parted and since then by phone. I'm sure he's not expecting me to be here. I think he figures I just came to get my things as that was the original plan this weekend. Unless one of the boys blabbed, he might get a surprise when he drives in the yard.
Please anyone have any calming things I can say so I can maintain my compsure and be respectful?

Me, again. I was just talking to SS35. I have his dog for company again tonight. He's coming to help me get the baseboard heater wired in tomorrow as it's freezing in this place. And I'll lose man's best friend who will be going home with his new dad. She was our dog until a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, SS35 misplaced his key to the house and his dad told him to go get mine and have a copy made as I had to have my own key because this is still my house. I know my telling him to leave will be a shock to him as that is NOT the way he was treating me.

Your reluctance to ask him to leave is palpable. You do not have to. You have the option of simply telling him you are there to stay...in the matrimonial home and matrimonial bed...and have decided to stand up for your marriage. Leave the ball in his court. Let him know that he of course is free to go, but you were hoping he would stay to work on the marriage. Then go about all the things as suggested, but do not tell him what you're doing. It is possible that if enough consequences come to bear with exposure etc. he may feel the proverbial bucket of cold water in the face before he leaves, but don’t count on it.

First and foremost call the OW husband; you need to confirm what has/is going on. Remember, WS lie to their spouses and lie to each other. You can tell when they lie...their lips move. If this is all a web of lies and half baked promises, that may be all it will take to have it collapse. Also follow through with the meeting with a lawyer…but do not tell him beforehand. Get advice as to what you need to do to protect yourself financially. Does he have a company pension? Can an actuary be retained to find its value? Does he make considerably more than you therefore have spousal support obligations? Can his financial obligations be spelled out to him by a lawyer now should this goes to divorce later?

Don't try and make sense of their actions. There is none to be found. Don't expect him to suddenly "see the light"; his thinking is murkier than the Red River in spring. Treat him as an insane individual, one that requires help, but is unwilling to accept any. This man is not your husband for the time being. There is not one single thing you can do to pry them apart, they have to figure that out on their own, and these tactics are only designed to accelerate that process.

Most of these cases end up in a plan B scenario. Expect it.

Thanks again Binder.

Can someone please point me in the direction to find out when the EXPOSURE should happen. I mean to ALL the friends and family. And to WORK. If ever by the BS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> or <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> depending on the minute!!

lost, exposure to the OWH, family and friends should happen as soon as possible. It is probably one of the most effective tools you have in your arsenal. You don't tell them to "punish" the WS, but to enlist their support for your marriage.

I would also caution you against any talk of lawyers. You don't want to scare your H off with talk like that. Right now the message needs to be "you are welcome in this marriage if you get rid of OW." Divorce threats send a very different message.

Ok sorry everyone. The one thing I cannot do is call the OWH. Never met him and don't know how he'd react. I'm getting next to no support from my sis and daughter as they want me to dump the b------!
Not what I want to hear.!. I'm just waiting here biding my time until he gets home from his weekend (since Thursday) with OW. That is the longest they will have spent together. I still don't know if I should ask him to leave or let him stay. If I let him stay, what role do we have with each other as long as he still cares about OW? Daily grind things, I mean? And if I let him stay, doesn't that defeat the purpose of him finding out what it will be like without his loving wife and comfortable home?

Guess I should have started a new post calling it 'when he gets home later today'

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Lost

I don’t want to monopolize this thread and am glad you are getting some additional responses on the other thread you started.

I did not find this place and it’s concepts until over 3 mos. had passed from discovering my WW’s affair was continuing after an ill-advised “constructive separation”. It was then I “knew” the OM was also separated and working on an amicable divorce with his wife. I called her…guess what? They were not separated and she did not want a divorce. I spoke to her for 2 hours initially and she was very receptive and appreciative.

Exposing to the OP’s spouse is not only the morally correct thing to do; it is the cornerstone of the exposure concept. Some well respected contributors here will not even post to you if they know you refuse to do this.

I do not suggest you let WH stay in the same home indefinitely if he wants to continue his A. It is best if you are living together while all aspects of exposure and plan A are implemented. That might, just might get him to re-evaluate his intentions. Then if he leaves, the plan B letter can be given and all the consequences of leaving the home and having no contact with you can be realized together. It is also best in a plan B that any chores around the house be hired out so he does not have the opportunity to assuage his guilty conscience by helping out.

I agree with Melodylane that threats of divorce are not productive coming from you, but it is him that has stated that intention. You must accept that at face value and start preparing to protect your assets and he must be provided with an idea of his obligations under those circumstances. Under Canadian law he will have at least a year after separation to mull it over before a divorce judgment can be applied for.