Hey star*fish,

You suggested on Georgia Guy's thread that he contact the OP directly to have a discussion. You said that Penny often recommends doing this. I know that Harley has told some folks here to do this very thing, but not on a consistent basis.

Since it is not traditional wisdom to do this [and traditional wisdom is often wrong admittedly], can you elaborate on the benefits of contacting the OP? Are there circumstances where Penny would not recommend it? And what has been your experience [clinical] with doing this?

I am trying to understand this. Thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hi Mel...

Contacting a ~sane~ OP who may be functioning under a misconception can be helpful.

For instance, FIM called young OW in Texas, and told her the skinny about "dork" speaking with the family priest, then doing a ceremonial burning of the divorce petition with the kids, going out for dinner afterwards. This was not at all what "dork" had told young OW. Big news for her.

If there is a ~sane~ OP ... sometimes they need the facts to make better decisions.

In Georgia Guy's thread ... he mentioned speaking to MM's wife... well, my take on this is to arrange it so everyone involved gets the same information. The WW, the MM, and MM's W. Georgia Guy could email all of them... (if he knows their personal email addresses) and state his case openly.

This sort of thing is always easiest (I think) if everyone is getting the same wattage of clarity at the same time.

Pep

One of the speakers at the conference I recently went to said this:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

No one is entitled to the wrong facts.

I like that...

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ML,

In my case, Steve Harley recommended that I contact our OW if she continued to contact my husband.

Over the past 3 years she has attempted and succeeded at times in re-contacting him. Every
5-8 months she tried to check in with him. He never returned any of her messages in any form until she snuck in with her mother, during her mother's appointment with my H! She was there dressed to kill, nails, hair etc perfect.

I think Steve's point in telling me to get ahold of her was to let her know that my husband told me when she tried to contact him. That there was no secrecy between the two of them anymore. That it was he and I together, dealing with her...

So that's exactly what I did. I wrote her a letter the day she surprised my husband with her visit with her mother. I was well prepared, and sent her the letter she deserved. I told her I would tell her mother everything that had happened if she ever tried to contact him again. And her mother is in her mid 70's recovering from the loss of her husband. I wouldn't think if I were the OW that I would want "me" informing her mother of news like this.

Next move is to contact a lawyer if/when she tries to contact him again.

Thanks Pep and CSue, for the feedback. I agree that those are situations where it makes sense to contact the OP.

In my case, the OW [married woman] was "shocked and scandalized" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> that my DH had lied to her about his supposed "seperation" and ended contact right away. Even so, she did try to contact him again recently after a 4 year break. [guess she wasn't too scandalized!]

I sent her a very sweet email <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> letting her know that I would be telling her H. This is the same situation that you had, CSue, and I think like your situation, it probably sent a very strong message to OW when she realized that my H told me of the contact immediately.

It's just that it does make sense to me in many circumstances to contact the OP but so many people caution against it. I know of cases where it was not pleasant, but in many others it was beneficial. I am starting to think that it's probably more beneficial than I had ever thought.

Thanks for the input.

Additionally, can you imagine how embarrassed most OP's would be to contacted by the betrayed spouse? It can't be easy to have to face the person whose life you are destroying. I would imagine that most do have consciences so the out of sight, out of mind aspect would facilitate the fantasy. So if they actually SEE the BS, that would all be ruined.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> One of the speakers at the conference I recently went to said this:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

No one is entitled to the wrong facts.

I like that...

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep,

The speaker was quoting the late senator Daniel Patrick Moyhihan who was the originator of that saying:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM

Hey Melody,

Sorry, haven't been online for a bit....just caught this. There definitely are some situations where contacting OP directly can have some impact. Here's a few of the things that might warrant that:

*OP is single, so there is no other BS to put pressure on the affair. Sometimes, like with you, you can expose to parents, but often that's not possible for some. It doesn't usually help...but I've seen a few times where it did. At the very least, it injects conflict into the A.

*The other BS (like with GG) is particularly non-confrontational and won't have much impact on the WS. GG mentioned that the other spouse was particularly soft spoken and perhaps her cultural upbringing might be part of that.

*The other BS is divorcing the OP and doesn't care about the A.

*OP seems to be struggling with the idea of cheating. If the OP has strong religious beliefs, or has attempted to end the A before...sometimes direct confrontation does help

*OP doesn't know the WS is married...doesn't happen often...but every now and then. (Scott Petersen)

I would rather see folks do this in a letter...rather than face to face or over a phone strictly for legal reasons. You don't want anyone saying later that you harrassed or threatened them. The confrontation letter simply states that you love your spouse and that it's impossible to build your marriage with their continued involvement. It asks for them to please end the affair and give your family a chance. If they are religious it might appeal to that.

Anyway, hope that helps.

It didn't work in my case...
Or it might have worked a bit... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Namely, "my" OW is divorced (15 years ago) with two kids (19 and 24) living with her, she knew me, His family know her (especially his sister, being her friend!), and - His family knew about them too... so imagine how my 'exposure' to all of them looked like... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, I wrote her a letter (yes, to have a proof that I was very polite!, but with hidden messages re: God's punishment and other bull**** (betrayers care about this? yeah right... at least not in my case...) I also quoted His emails stating his love for me and our son, and neglecting OW's existence in His life at all, except being old friends...
(And I wrote that He considers her being just old friend... I bolded OLD because she's older than me by 8 years - oh, thanks God, she's not young(er) and beautiful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Nothing changed, anyway not that she was ashamed or felt guilty or broke up with him... she pursued him even stronger and insisted that He stops any contact with me, EVEN to talk about our son! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )
(She never answered my message in any shape either!)

BUT, I KNOW it helped for it made her feel insecure, jealous, and - nagging b**ch... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
So, 'seed' is there, and I will warm it from time to time to grow nicely... (evilsmileyhere)
Not by contacting Her, ever!, but having a 'conweyer' - telling her friend (His sister <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ): 'he took me for a supper', he bought me this and that' and how I feel sorry he made mistake for he seems so unhappy...'
(Btw, all of this is truth...)

In general, I don't think it works (if I generalize). Or - it works only if OW doesn't know that he's married...
Because - if they were religous they would never be with a married man, the same if they ever had moral, pride, the same if... any other reason you might account for when you want to contact them...

And, if I generalize too, it might work just to make OW show her true face, when she's betrayed, jealous, neglected, lied to... And that's a beginning of ruining His 'fantasy land-ing' with her... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

If you contact by phone, remember the OP is not your friend, has no loyalty towards you, and has interests that conflict with yours.

If you contact by email, remember it may become public.

The FOW & I are currently in a group that neither of us can get out of. I remembered ruled #2, email may be read/sent to others. She did not. Oh well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So, it wasn't explicit *why*, but she was mean. And, since it involved leadership of this group, no one can exactly figure out why she was so nasty to me. Nice to have her rant in print. Nice to be the one who was sooo civil in email prior & post to her rant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Be careful out there.

PS: Hope WAT could read this... he once wanted my opinion re: 'exposure'...
Now I have (a bit!) more time, and - don't feel 'singled out' (which I don't accept <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

The morning after the evening I found out that my wife was having an affair, I emailed the OM and told him that if I caught him sniffing around my wife again, I, and some of my friends, would make him wish he had never been born. I further went on to say that if he wanted to discuss it with me, feel free to call me on my cell at xxx-xxx-xxxx. It was a bit of a bluff since the guy was 6'2" and outweighed me by 50 pounds, but apparently he didn't want to take a chance with going up against a wounded Betrayed Husband. He literally droped out of site and was never heard from again. Didn't even bother to say good bye to my wife. LOL. That sure felt good for a short while.

From my own experience I would say that contacting OP is of variable usefulness depending on the state of mind of both BS and OP.

My D-day call to OP was angry and OM offered to fight me( not surprising as the only thing he can do is Karate).

Later when I was broken I sent him an email asking for contact details and he replied offering marriage guidance ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

After exposure when I was strong the dynamic changed utterly and OM begged me not to send proof to his GF.

Now the dynamic has cinaged utterly - he is scared of me according to his GF: scared that I will destroy his reputation by exposure not only of the A but also his illegal activities to the various sports bodies and charities hie fills his unemployed days with.

Even a month ago I would have offered OM violence if I met him.

Now I am coming to pity him.

My point is I think contact is OK IF the purpose is well known and the mindset of the BS is appropriate to achieving the objective.

I pray that squid and I never see or speak with him ever again for HIS sake as much as ours.

I cant sleep but thats besides the point...

Contacting OP may be more painful for the BS....

I remember my suspicions leading me to my W's cellphone where I phoned the most reoccuring number on her call history, it ended up being OM cellphone.

I remember our conversation:

Me: Why the F&$*$ do you keep calling my W?
OM: HUH? WHAT?
Me: This is FM MAtters, why do you keep calling my W?????
OM: We're just friends....
Me: Look I understand if you 2 are in love really I do, we were separated for 2 years and I know you 2 were together. If you are in love I understand, just please take me out of the middle, I can't deal with this any longer, be together go off and make a life, just stop putting me in the middle...
OM: No..No NO...I'm not interested in any R, I'm just a youngin...I'm not interested in anything serious, me and family matters W are just friends thats it, I'm all about my music, I'm a youngin and I don't have time for anything serious...Family matters W knows this, I told her.....


See how this conversation hurts the BS...
so now I have to accept that my W is willing to throw away my M, Shake up our children, disintegrate our family all for a self described YOUNGIN, WHO DOESNT WANT ANYTHING SERIOUS, DOESN'T HAVE TIME FOR HER AND ISN'T INTERESTED IN ANYTHING OF LONG TERM VALUE/////

Contact OP with a bit of caution and brace yourself for what you might discover...

GOD Bless

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

i contacted ow, and im kind of sorry i did.i didnt find some seductress out to ruin my marriage, i found a young girl who lived with her parents and cant even drive a car for crying out loud who had been lied to and decieved and had no idea she was with a married man. i couldnt stop myself from asking her details that were absolutely devastating to me. and you know what happened after she swore to me she believed me and would never believe his lies? he told her he had filed for divorce and she believed him and took him back. she will not take a call from me because she believes im a crazy maniac. i felt like crap and still do. not only did i pour out my heart to this dumb girl i feel like ive made a fool out of myself. i wish i'd never called her.

In my case I think being contacted by his then wife would have dramatically changed the situation. Especially if she did it right after I started seeing him. For one I would have found out he was married before he became a huge part of my life. I can't imagine that I would have knowingly inflicted pain on another woman. The people in my life would never have considered him a friend if they knew he was married. It would have not been the fairy tale romance it was, it would have been a sleezy affair and I would have been too ashamed to go on with it I think. Well it was a sleezy affair but I didn't know it was. Even his children from his first marriage kept it from me when we went on vacation together.

To this day I still don't know if she even cared as they divorced soon after I found out he was married. He says he was divorcing her anyway. Maybe she didn't care and wanted him gone, I don't know. I hope that is the case anyway. Atleast they didn't have children together.

But our situation was different than a lot of others as he travels for work, it wasn't like we all knew each other.

I still think the OP should be contacted, and right away. State your case and your intentions. Make it short, sweet and to the point. (well maybe not sweet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I think the attempt should almost always be made. Surely in some cases it's pointless, but you never know.

I had a heart to heart with the OP in my case. Asked her to step back. OP said, "No, I promised your wife I wouldn't walk away from her."

The irony of that still kills me. You say you care about someone then willingly play a part in the destruction of their life and family. Even the fact that children's lives were at stake wasn't enough to override that self-serving 'promise'.

Anyway, it was worth a try. If I hadn't I'd still be wondering if I should have.

dewt

Thanks star*fish, for laying it out like that. It seems that the bottom line is that every situation is different but it's always something to explore.

BTN, I think in your experience you had an OW who didn't know right from wrong. In which case, contact would have no impact.

weaver, your experience was alot like mine in that the OW was being lied to. When I told her he was still married, she dumped him like a hot potato. Imagine the hell I avoided by doing that?!

Dewt, I think I agree with you, that it is best to just to try. There are no guarantees but there is always the off chance that it effectively end/hasten the end of the affair.

Hello everyone. I've found this interesting reading. My H of 19 years is in deep MLC - Replay. The OW's H has been deemed unstable (from what I understand and is considered dangerous). Her H contacted me and asked how I was doing(May). We commiserated (sp?) but I said I wouldn't talk about the A with him. Perhaps I should?

My T suggested I contact OW (those of you who have read my thread know she works at my company). I'm not sure how my H would feel about it. He may b/c angry? What have the rest of you found? Can it make matters worse?

My kids don't know there's an OP (at least I don't think so) and hers either (13, 10, 8).

Currently, my H is living with a friend who also works at my company and knows of the A. He pays only $100/month to live there. Not much "push" to leave there.

What are your thoughts about me contacting OW? I'd considered it prior to T's mention, but I don't know.

Susan

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: ustr ]</small>

TMCM~~~~

"The speaker was quoting the late senator Daniel Patrick Moyhihan who was the originator of that saying"

The speaker was Dan Clark. X-football pro (badly injured, had to retire early), songwriter (mostly country) , author ("Chicken Soup For Soul" books, "Puppies For Sale"), speaker-for-hire. I do not doubt he "borrows" much of his stuff from fokelore, old country sayings, and just about anywhere... he's an interesting guy.

Pep