My wife of 10 years had an affair this past summer.
I found out, confronted her, and the past few months have pretty much been hell for us.

I've been pretty hard to deal with. Top that off with all she has had to deal with (getting over other man and stuff like that).

During the past few months I've constantly badgered her, asking over and over if the affair was over. Telling her I don't trust her.
She's been home, been fairly loving. Been trying.

She has been in contact with the other man, as they work together. However, they have only had conversations professionally. I warned other man to leave her alone.

Turns out he has. Left her alone that is.

My question.
I've been a bit, well actually, I've been very paranoid. I've been awful to live with. Asking her daily if she is still involved with him. Checking up on her. You name it, I've done it.

I want to move on with her. But, I think I do owe her an apology. Not just I'm sorry.
More.... "Look, This whole thing has shattered my life....I don't know up from down, nor left from right. Please understand that.

I don't know how to broach this subject without sounding like the stuck record I've been the past few months.
I want to tell her and show her I'm ready to move forward. Slowly rebuilding our lives.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, DD. I am sorry you are here.

First off let me explain something about affairs. Affairs are like addictions. And like addictions, the only way a person can recover is if they ABSTAIN and avoid the subject of their addiction.

Can you imagine a newly sober alcoholic going into the bar every night and sitting in front of a beer but cannot touch it? He thinks of nothing but that beer and how wonderful it would taste. He is obsessed with that beer and thinks of nothing else in his white knuckle effort to NOT take a drink. Eventually, though, the inevitable weak moment overtakes him and he grabs that beer.

It is the same with your W. She cannot recover as long as there is any contact. She cannot withdraw from her addiction as long as she sees him. Contact is contact and calling it "professional" is nothing more than an excuse to continue contact.

She can never recover this way and it is probably just a matter of time until she caves in a weak moment. Your marriage will never recover with this contact. And every time that she sees him, puts YOU back to Day 1 of recovery.

You are left to live in daily fear and your only hope is the WORD of an untrustworthy person that she is doing nothing wrong. Every day, you have to HOPE that this untrustworthy person will be trustworthy. What a hell of a way to live, DD.

Living like that is probably just as painful as D-Day because you are dying the death of a thousand cuts.

In short, this is why Harley INSISTS that all contact must end, EVEN if you have to move across the country. Please think about this, DaltonDad.

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dalton Dad:
<strong>

I want to move on with her. But, I think I do owe her an apology. Not just I'm sorry.
More.... "Look, This whole thing has shattered my life....I don't know up from down, nor left from right. Please understand that.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't apologize for a natural reaction to the greatest betrayal a spouse can experience. You can't move on until you get into recovery and recovery will not start until contact ends. Please don't beat yourself up for your rightful despair. It will take around 12-18 months to recover, DD. This won't go away overnight.

Nor will you trust again overnight. Trust is rebuilt only through time and her consistent demonstration of trustworthy behavior. And the way you confirm that trustworthiness is asking questions and checking things. There is no shame in protecting yourself, it really is an obligation you have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> Welcome to Marriage Builders, DD. I am sorry you are here.

First off let me explain something about affairs. Affairs are like addictions. And like addictions, the only way a person can recover is if they ABSTAIN.

Can you imagine a newly sober alcoholic going into the bar every night and sitting in front of a beer but cannot touch it? He thinks of nothing but that beer and how wonderful it would taste. He is obsessed with that beer and thinks of nothing else in his white knuckle effort to NOT take a drink. Eventually, though, the inevitable weak moment overtakes him and he grabs that beer.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Melody Lane:

This was very well put. This whole affair business makes alot of sense when you put it that way. Good post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My wife has assured me time and time again that her affair is over.

Does it hurt when she is at work. However, I can't very well ask her to quit her job. So her dealing with the other man on a daily basis is a fact. I have to deal with that. Or learn to.

When you frame it in that manner. What choice do I have? It would all seem so hopeless.
When what we are really looking for is to move forward. To put this affair behind us.

I do feel like I'm not being fair to her by not trusting. She is still with me. I'm trying to get over it. Deal with my issues as she says.

What you are saying about no contact is that she would have to change jobs, or quit? That would cause a serious amount of resentment from her to me. I wouldn't want to live with that, that resentment.

This is all very confusing? I thought I was asking a simple question. Now, a 1000 doubts of my wifes sincerity and honesty are flooding in?

DaltonDad, it really is not very much to ask at all when you consider what is on the line here. You have sacrificed quite a bit in order to stay and make this marriage work. The least she can do is make sure that it is POSSIBLE for you to recover from the damage she has caused. You can't recover if she is still seeing the OM. She can't recover if she is still seeing him every day. Your marriage can't recover this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you are saying about no contact is that she would have to change jobs, or quit? That would cause a serious amount of resentment from her to me. I wouldn't want to live with that, that resentment.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you are living with much worse right now. You are dying a death of a thousand cuts. You cannot recover your marriage this way, DD.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you frame it in that manner. What choice do I have? It would all seem so hopeless.
When what we are really looking for is to move forward. To put this affair behind us.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you won't move forward this way. You can't put the affair behind you, you are seeing this with your own eyes. You can't move forward until it has ended, it has not ended.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do feel like I'm not being fair to her by not trusting. She is still with me. I'm trying to get over it. Deal with my issues as she says.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But trust has to be earned, DD. It is not fair to expect you to trust an untrustworthy person. Trust has to be earned, it cannot be demanded. We trust people who demonstrate trustworthy behavior.

DD, here is what Dr Harley says about continued contact:

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure. "

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> DaltonDad, it really is not very much to ask at all when you consider what is on the line here. You have sacrificed quite a bit in order to stay and make this marriage work. The least she can do is make sure that it is POSSIBLE for you to recover from the damage she has caused. You can't recover if she is still seeing the OM. She can't recover if she is still seeing him every day. Your marriage can't recover this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you are saying about no contact is that she would have to change jobs, or quit? That would cause a serious amount of resentment from her to me. I wouldn't want to live with that, that resentment.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you are living with much worse right now. You are dying a death of a thousand cuts. You cannot recover your marriage this way, DD.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you frame it in that manner. What choice do I have? It would all seem so hopeless.
When what we are really looking for is to move forward. To put this affair behind us.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But you won't move forward this way. You can't put the affair behind you, you are seeing this with your own eyes. You can't move forward until it has ended, it has not ended.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do feel like I'm not being fair to her by not trusting. She is still with me. I'm trying to get over it. Deal with my issues as she says.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But trust has to be earned, DD. It is not fair to expect you to trust an untrustworthy person. Trust has to be earned, it cannot be demanded. We trust people who demonstrate trustworthy behavior. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Melodylane:

Please stop posting all of these intelligent posts that make a lot of sense and are screaming with good advice. I can't take it much more...I am having to agree with you all day here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

shaddup, you goon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Melodylane,
From an emotional perspective I agree with you. I does kill me inside when she is at work.

I'm a little lost, I thought I was on the right track with her. We were getting better. But, what you are showing me is that in some ways I will never get over it.
Worse than that, my wife is either not over it, or is still lying to me.

This is what has made the past months hell for us. My mistrust. She's cried to me over and over that she isn't still seeing this man. That it is in the past.

Even him, when I confronted him, initially agreed to stay away from her, and more recently, has told me nothing has been going on since I found out. That my wife ended it. That he made a mistake. He just wants to move on with his life also.

My problem now, I thought was showing my wife that I do still love her. Not, as you suggest take giant steps backwards.

HAHA and I thought I was getting over this.
From the sounds of it my mistake in thinking we were out of the wood, isn't even close. When in fact we haven't even begun to solve this problem

I hate the doubts. I hate being a mistrusting person. I just don't know how to get my wife to willingly offer the things it would take to make me trust her without question.
She keeps saying "I don't ever know the right thing to do." Meaning that I may never be happy no matter what she does.

What I do want I guess, is for her not to work with the other man. That just seems too far fetched to happen at this point. I don't see her doing that. In fact, I can't even imagine having that conversation. The hate that would seethe from her. I think I understand the reasons why, so she would never continue the affair. But, if she wanted to do that. She still could. Couldn't she. Whether she worked with this man or not. They could always talk to each other. Or email. Or meet over lunch....you know the usual venues.

I guess I'm babbling...or blubbering. I apologize.
Thank you for the advice Melodylane.

Dalton Dad

You could not have received any more succinct and "on the mark" a reply to your post.

Listen carefully and closely to Melody Lane. Everything she said is the absolute truth.

Purchase and read Surviving an Affair, and you'll get a better understanding of the dynamics of an affair.

It will be the best thing you've done for you in the last year!

SD

Lemonman.... I've never responded to one of your posts, although tempted often. Do I detect a softening of your armor? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dalton Dad:
[QB]
She keeps saying "I don't ever know the right thing to do." Meaning that I may never be happy no matter what she does.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But what has she done, DD? I don't see that she has done anything to repair the damage. The very least she could have done was end contact and find another job. That would have been a first step.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I do want I guess, is for her not to work with the other man. That just seems too far fetched to happen at this point. I don't see her doing that. In fact, I can't even imagine having that conversation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's only far fetched because you haven't set any rational boundaries to protect yourself. But you can do that now, better late than never. This is not much to ask at all.

You can see for yourself that recovery is not going to take place otherwise. This is not just for YOU, DD, this is for your marriage. And sure, she may be angry at first, but isnt a little anger worth your marriage?

No one ever said doing the right thing for your marriage was going to be easy. And this may not be easy. But it is right. It is right for all concerned. Because ya ain't going to EVER recover unless it happens. So, yes, her anger is very much worth it if it saves your marriage and saves your sanity.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what has made the past months hell for us. My mistrust. She's cried to me over and over that she isn't still seeing this man. That it is in the past.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But it's not in the past at all as long as she sees him every day. What has made your life hell is her continued contact. Only an insane person would trust and untrustworthy person, DD. You should not trust her and have only reacted as any sane person would.

Anyway, take some time and think it over, DD. I know its a lot to take in at once so it will take some time to wrap your mind around it. Do you have any of Harley's books? A good one is Surviving an Affair.

DD,
Your wife may in fact be over the OM. As MelodyLane says it's nearly impossible but it's remotely possible.

For the health of your relationship she or the OM should quit their jobs. If he was her supervisor it should be him or else you should go have a little chat with the HR dept about the sexual harrassment.

If she quit, your anxiety would be greatly diminished. Your wife at first may be upset with you, but she needs to understand that this will be a major step for you in restoring the trust. Her nights of crying because of all of your concerns over whether it really is over will go away.

Mac

I wish I could believe her now. Yesterday I thought I could. Now. I guess I'm wrong.

I checked some things last night. And maybe Melody was more correct than I wanted to let myself believe.
This morning, without confronting her. I asked her if she was still talking to the other man. She cried at me that she wasn't.

Even if I got her to quit her job, what is to say that she would even stay away from this man.
I mean, it's not like she can "be with him" at work. They need to go out for that.

just getting more and more confused..

Dalton, what things did you check last night? What do you mean?

And quitting her job is no guarantee that she will quit seeing him. But going to work and seeing him everyday is a guarantee that she WILL SEE HIM. Every day. It is a guarantee that she will NOT withdraw from him. It is a guarantee that your marriage will not recover.

First things first, Dalton. You have to address this issue first. If she does continue contact, then we can address that later and deal with it. One thing at a time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dalton Dad:
<strong>
I mean, it's not like she can "be with him" at work. They need to go out for that.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They don't need to go anywhere to carry on an emotional affair, Dalton.

But this brings us back to the initial issue, which is that she can't withdraw from her addiction if she is staring it in the face every day, thinking about it. Unless she withdraws from the OM, your marriage doesn't recover because her heart and mind are with him. Unless she ends contact, you live in constant paranoia that the affair will eventually resume.

Maybe they are trying to avoid each other at work, but that doesn't mean they can withdraw, which is essential to recovery. How long can you live with the tension of sending her to the OM every day?

Dalton - I totally understand your feelings.

My husband doesn't work directly with OW, but in same building. It kills me every day he is at work. But, I have a 17 yr old in his senior year, he is captain of football team, and has a very close knit group of friends - I refuse to uproot us until he graduates in May.

My husband knows, because I've told him at least once a week since Dday - We are moving after son graduates and is off to college.

I will not give on this. Of course that allows the possibility of the affair resuming between now and then - but WS and I are on really good footing and our marriage is the best it has ever been so I must just let go and trust as best I can for now. I just think to myself that I can deal with this until next summer, there will be an end to his contact with her even as limited as it is now - eventually.

I know that all contact must end, mostly because OW has become obsessed and a bit crazy in the past few months with her attempted contacts - but I try to focuse on myself, my kids, my husband, and just know that I can endure until we can move.

Oh, as a side note, my husband doesn't want to leave his job, it will mean a paycut and such, but I don't care. It is a consequence of his choices that he must accept.

I checked her phone. there were calls deleted. You know, the call records incoming and outgoing. After 10 calls on our phones is scrolls out the earliest calls. There were only 8 outgoing calls on phone. Only time that should be is when the phone is brand new.
Then, I checked the account online for her phone. Showed she made a call last night, but it was not on the phone.
Yeah, she is lying to me. This morning she cried her eyes out that she was telling me the truth.
I couldn't tell her how I knew, she would just get less sloppy. Or more careful. Whatever.

How do I get her to break off contact with other man without feeling like I'm keeping her in a cage? That is my biggest question. I mean, I would like her to do this on her own, rather than "do it or else" I hate being like that.
No matter how important a marriage is.

Threats are not a good basis for a marriage.

Oh, by the way. I did pick up the book you mentioned, Surviving after an affair.
Thanks

Dalton, can you get the cell phone record online? It is usually pretty easy to access. It will show a record of outgoing calls, I think.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then, I checked the account online for her phone. Showed she made a call last night, but it was not on the phone.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have the #? Can you find out who it belongs to? How often does she call this #? Does she keep her phone on at home in the evening?

Is the OM married?

She knows that she cannot carry on an affair and stay married, Dalton, this has nothing to do with making a threat, but with setting healthy boundaries. She does not have a right to destroy you behind your back and you are well within your rights to insist that she cease.

But....don't confront her yet. Lets gather some evidence first, ok?