Arrrrg.

I don't even know where to start.

My W and I are living together again after a 6-month separation. She is here soley for the sake of our special needs son. We are getting along fine but there is no commitment to marital recovery... nor does there seem to be any movement towards it. ILYBNILWY.

Harley recommends a time limit on Plan A. I set one in my head quite some time ago, and it is coming up pretty fast.

I'm doing my best to do a good plan A, especially in the category of just chillin' and not putting pressure on her for answers, but, the veneer is cracking. Anniverseries of certain stages of our marital catastrophe are starting and it's having a pretty negative impact on me emotionally.

Coming undone...

dewt

Start w/ the deep breathing exercises. I know this won't resolve the issues at hand but it may help you cope with them better.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Want to see a <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> from you.

Hugz,
L.

Dewt,

No good advice here, just want to say hang in there!

You seem like a great guy and Dylan seems like a great lady.

Hope things turn around soon, we can't live in the darkness forever and you have been fighting the fight for a long time.

I am surprised to see you mention Plan B though, didn't think you considered than an option. Have no real opinions on it in your case but as there are those here who know your story much better than I, I hope to see some of them offer their perspectives. Atleast I think that is what you allude to when you say the time limit for Plan A is almost up. Is it?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

aw heck...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There ya go. And I meant it too. Last night Dyl and I had some seriously wonderful intimate time together.

And really, not to complain, but that's kind of part of the issue. I thirst so bad for intimacy with her and when it happens, it fills me with happiness and, well, a warm fuzzy feeling. (oh, don't laugh) But a part of me just can't forget that there is still no commitment to recovery.

And without that commitment, I feel like we're stalled. Stagnated. And really I understand Dylan's need for us to chill. And I understand how putting pressure on her will just make it worse.

My 'time limit' a-la Harley is coming up. I'm afraid of that. If I stick to it, she and I will be separated. And I don't believe that will do our marriage/relationship any good.

Ahhhh, I love her soooo much. It's overwhelming.

I don't want to ruin things with my impatience. Or get close to breaking through her shell then blow it by doing something stupid, as has been my habit.

Hey Weaver, thanks for popping in.

I'm not a big Plan B proponent. And not only is she no longer involved in her affair, but I've been through Plan B with Dylan and it didn't work.

Naw, I figured if after a year Dylan hadn't worked out her issues enough to decide to even make a go of it with me, then it'd be time to accept the unacceptable and learn to accept the idea of life without her.

But now that time is coming. Coming quick.

Yeah, I had a feeling Plan B wasn't going to be an option.

I have fifty/fifty custody of my 10 year old daughter. She is with her dad now for four months and I have her every other weekend. It is tough on me but she seems to be doing well and happy. I am hoping that when she is 12 she will tell her dad she wants to live with me all the time, but I don't know if she will.

Dewt, I learned to let go of my DD's dad and move on with my life without him. It was hard for a few years and I loved him so much, but it was the only way for us both to have a chance at happiness with someone else. He is now married to someone who is a very loving stepmother to Paige and I am thankful for that.

It's hard Dewt, to be faced with the possibility of letting someone who is a part of you go.

I did it with love because I was not able to let go of him in anger. I wasn't the right girl for him any longer, too many things had happened especially his cheating.

Everyone needs love, passion, romance in their life and to settle for less is a copout and a travesty in my opinion.

"Everyone needs love, passion, romance in their life and to settle for less is a copout and a travesty in my opinion. "

Well, that sure is part of the issue. A complicated one at that. Before the A and separation, I had complaints about the lack of passion. It is a major factor in what led to my own affair, 5 yrs ago.

And I guess, after that, I learned to accept life without it. I felt that I had to accept that passionate behaviour was not part of Dylan's character. And I think I was doing reasonably well too. At times I'd grow a little frustrated, but I never came close to straying again anyways.

THEN came the affair. And I saw my beloved wife acting towards someone else as I had been longing that she act towards me. I saw her dressing certain ways... making time to be with OP and so NOT making time to be with me... stuff like that and all the progress I'd made over the years was totally swept away. Dylan claims that her behaviour was due to the newness and exciting nature of a new relationship and that it faded and OP ended up with the same complaints I had.

But I'm having a hard time accepting that. To me, it's not just about passion and desire. If you love someone and wanna make them happy, and if you know there's a certain something you can do... then why in the world wouldn't you make that a priority? And wouldn't that be so whether you are in the first month of your relationship or the 20th year?

To complicate the matter, I've had two girlfriends in the past year. Both as part of an attempt to 'move on' and both relationships ended because I realized that 'moving on' was not the appropriate course of action. The problem being here, is that both of these women were crazy about me, wanted to be with me, and found me to be, (quite frankly) VERY desirable material. (And not just sexually- but yes, that too)

And dammit, dammit, dammit, that is how I want my WIFE to feel about me.(And not just sexually- but yes, that too)

And I understand she doesn't feel that way right now. Heck, I even understand why. But I also know that given a chance, we can make that grow and build it into something awesome.

But I despair that it will get that chance. I fear stagnation- I fear the situation will just continue... old habits will come back... and everything will just start to crumble. And God knows I can't go through that again.

But yes, she is a part of me. More than she knows.

Could I ever really learn to let go of that?

Would I want to?

John

Could I ever really learn to let go of that?[/ [B]Would I want to?

Yep the hardest questions there are. When you can answer them, everything else will fall into place - one way or another.

Well then I'm up the proverbial creek.

Dylan and I have a 20 year history. We dated for a summer when we were young, broke up, went our seperate ways and were apart for almost a decade.

In all that time, most of it with no contact whatsoever, I never got over her.

I don't see that would be different this time around.

Hence my dilema. If this were any other woman in the whole universe, I'd have moved on LONG ago. But it is not. It's my Dylan. And life without her would be like life without my eyes or my legs, or some critical part of me that I'm just not 'whole' without.

But the fact is that it may very well be something that happens.

[/shivers of horror]

The thing is that it's soooo good having her here. It's nice. Really nice. We are getting along... there's intimacy, and co-operation... just no basic commitment to head towards recovery.

And I know that there is no quick fix... and that a commitment from her would effectively change nothing in terms of our day to day lives... but it would change the reason behind it it... give substance and purpose to the things we do everyday.

Without those simple words, I just can't shake the feeling that all the good feelings I'm having with her are an illusion...

That in the end, she just doesn't want me.

And as much as living without her would leave me feeling un-whole, the idea that she doesn't want me is worse.

She is here soley for the sake of our special needs son. We are getting along fine but there is no commitment to marital recovery... nor does there seem to be any movement towards

So is she there "soley for the sake of your special needs son" or did she also commit to any marital recovery when she moved in?

To complicate the matter, I've had two girlfriends in the past year.

EXCUUUUSSSE ME?? Yeah, I guess that would complicate the matter! Does your W know about these GFs? That could be influencing her actions.

How long have you been back together?

If you love someone and wanna make them happy, and if you know there's a certain something you can do... then why in the world wouldn't you make that a priority?

Are you practicing what you are preaching? Do you put in the time to make her happy?

k

Hello Dewt,
Sorry, I know it has been a long time that I have not written to you. But because I am rooting for both you and Dylan and because I had become quite familiar with your situation, I wanted to reflect to you something beautiful that is going on for you.
O.K., so your deadline is coming up, SO WHAT!!!. You and Dylan have come a long way. Do you not realise that Dylan has also made big sacrifices to be with you and Mini? Do you not realize that in your post you are actually proclaiming that you TWO are intimate finally. Maybe what Dylan needs most, is to know that you trust her actions, and that actions do speak louder than words. Don't allow your selfish needs to HEAR from Dylan that she is indeed committed to you, to blind you or preessure her. It seems that she is really making her efforts. It's up to you to recognise them and allow yourself to be thankful for what you have. Maybe you folks ARE in recovery but not according to the Harley model ! So WHAT!!! just thank your lucky stars and be patient.

Peace,
Odyssey

krusht,

No... she was very specific that she was NOT moving here to work on our marriage when she moved here in June after 6 months of separation. I figured that it would be a good opportunity to Plan A her and meet her needs etc... and so I had some hope.

Yes. Dylan knows about the girlfriends. In both cases, I was trying to 'move on' and in both cases ended the relationship when I saw the effect it had on Dylan.

Are you practicing what you are preaching? Do you put in the time to make her happy?

Hey ya. I'm really doing my best. Truth be told, I feel kinda in the dark about some of her needs but the ones I know of I'm doing pretty good. Of course there's always room for improvement, but I've made progress and changes over the past year.

Odyssey, thanks for posting. I think I really needed to hear all that. It's kind of the root of the dilemma/issue I'm stuggling with.

"O.K., so your deadline is coming up, SO WHAT!!!."

See, that's what I'm saying. That, to a large degree is how I've been feeling. I mean, we're really getting along well and it's been really nice having here here. If I knew she ultimately wanted to be with me, then I'd be so not freaking out.

It's one small sentence. Why does it mean so much to me?

Why can't I just chill and enjoy this while it lasts?

See... that's also what I mean... "while it lasts"... that's not a very secure or comforting attitude!

Do you not realise that Dylan has also made big sacrifices to be with you and Mini?

Yep... but then I question the nature of those sacrifices and I'm right back at square one.

Maybe what Dylan needs most, is to know that you trust her actions, and that actions do speak louder than words.

But how? Sure I trust her to tell me the truth, to not steal from me or malicioiusly stab me in the back, but do I trust that we will be together or that I can put my heart into her hands again? Even with a statement of purpose, that would be a tough one.

Don't allow your selfish needs to HEAR from Dylan that she is indeed committed to you, to blind you or preessure her. It seems that she is really making her efforts. It's up to you to recognise them and allow yourself to be thankful for what you have.

I sooo needed to hear that.

Maybe you folks ARE in recovery but not according to the Harley model ! So WHAT!!! just thank your lucky stars and be patient.

Well that's kind of what I want to do, but I'm scared of being crushed again, abandoned again. Scared of being taken advantage of and scared of being a doormat. Remember boundries?

dewt

Hi dewt,

I have been occasionally following your story, but forgive me as I am not totally clued up on the situation.

You remind me of how I felt immediately post d-day. Breaking up was not an option. Despite the pain and the mistrust, all I was motivated to do was to save us. H2B did not want to commit immediately, although the A was over.

Therefore, his indecision had nothing to do with her, it was about him not knowing if he wanted to be with me. That hurt a lot, but luckily he came round pretty soon, and hopefully your W will do the same, and wonder why she ever doubted.

You obviously love your wife and are willing to commit to her fully. If you stick to it, it seems highly unlikely that you will fail.

With all due respect, I must disagree with weaver. If dewt gave up his wife that he loves for the sake of a slow-starting recovery: THAT would be a copout.

Lots of love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I noticed you have a special needs son.
I do too. Mine is 10 years old now. Having a special needs child places a huge strain in marriages. I have seen it do a number on ours. Although my son is now out of imminent danger now that is not to say he won't be in the future. My husband and I and our two daughters are still suffering PTSD from his issues. We went to IC for that and still do.
My son is on the autistic spectrum and he has mood disorders. I had to be vigilent with him at all times as he was not safe alone ever. He has gastrointestinal problems as well as seizures up to 20 a day. He is on medications and he has had a lot of medical testing and intervention. We had to learn sign language to communicate with him as well as help him with walking in his early years. He would have several hours of straight screaming. He wouldnt make eye contact and had to have everythign in a line or just so. Forget going out anywhere. Forget romance. Forget a life. I can't tell you how often I had to stay up at nights worrying for him. Since I was the one who was home with him the most I saw most of his disturbing behaviors and my husband didn't always see them right away and wrote them off. That really hurt. The worse was when my son became physically aggressive towards us.
Of course when he saw it, he realized how bad they were. Yet he was at a loss as to how to help me. He was not on the internet researching the issues -that was all up to me and that hurt too. I was the one who had to argue with the doctors while he went along with them even when they were making some bad choices. I had to decide on the education method and still continue to do so. He has been mainly hands off. I think it is because sometimes he doesn't know how to interact with our son. I can't remember how times I told him, "I need you home." But he wouldn't do what he needed to get home and I was left to deal with the stress of it all.

So yes I do harbor some resentment towards my husband. I have told him but still it eats at me.
My son is now doing really well. We are with an Independent study charter school where he gets some special needs services but I remain his sole teacher. He reads, writes albeit slowly, talks, runs, swims etc. He is doing really well. He is on medications to deal with outbursts.

My husband is now retiring and perhaps this is the trigger of my resentment as he will now be home after the hardship of my son's issues are hopefully behind us. Where was he when I needed him? I remember being on the phone sobbing for him and pleading for him to come back and help out.

So basically I am asking you how severe is your son's special needs because it can really take a tole in a marrage not to mention the guilty feeling that our love for our children isn't enough to make things ok. Does this make sense? Women especially feel really responsible for our children's special needs and we begin to think if we were better mothers, wives, blah blah our kids would be ok. Besides parenting my son has taken so much out of me that I sometimes feel like I have nothing else to give. SEXY is definitely not how I felt after dealing with my son's three hour screams. I have also found it next to impossible to find the right people to babysit for your special needs child and their siblings thereby making alone time virtually impossible.

Marriage is not easy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ks2001:
<strong>Therefore, his indecision had nothing to do with her, it was about him not knowing if he wanted to be with me. That hurt a lot, but luckily he came round pretty soon, and hopefully your W will do the same, and wonder why she ever doubted.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what's going on over here. It does hurt alot... more than I'm even really willing to admit to myself. But, oh gawd, it's so much better than having her chose OP over me. That would have dealt blows to th'ol self esteem that would have been insurmountable

I know why she'd feel that way though... not being sure she'd want to be with me. Thus far we have not excelled at this game called married life and for sure I played a part of that.

I know, with all my heart, that she is my soul-mate. I also know we can have a really bright future. But only if we BOTH are fully committed to it in word and deed.

You obviously love your wife and are willing to commit to her fully. If you stick to it, it seems highly unlikely that you will fail.

If she does not join me in being committed, we have virtually no chance of success. Without her help, I'm not sure I can get things together enough to provide enough reason for her to 'come back'.

If dewt gave up his wife that he loves for the sake of a slow-starting recovery: THAT would be a copout.

It would also be the biggest tragedy of all time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's why I started this thread. I really need to talk about all this. God knows I've made enough bad mistakes already. I'd like to do things right this time.

laundry mistress

I have 2 special needs sons. My 13yr old was diagnosed with Asperger's and it looks very much like my young one (8) is in the same boat, although we still lack an official diagnosis. The fact that they have different Moms points right back at me... and explains a whole lot about my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thankfully things are not overly severe. My older boy is in a special school and Dylan and I are working closely with the school to try and keep our younger in the regular school system. (for now)

I shivered, reading your story, and realized (as I do at least once a day) how lucky I am. To be sure we face trials and tribulations, but both my children, while they face the difficulties of the autism spectrum, have been given gifts as well. One is an artist extraordinaire and the other has a scientific mind that I'm sure one day will put Einstein to shame. (well, ok, I'm slightly biased, but how many children know that DNA stands for Deoxy-Ribonucleic Acid)

J

Hey my kids know what RNA and DNA is!!!!
Do we share the same kids?
They sing a song about it too. Your son might like Lyrical Science. It takes scientific concepts and vocabulary and they are sung to a patriotic tune. Really cute. I know about the artistic bit as well.
Just I do wonder how much of the spectrum stuff play into our marriage meaning that I know it runs in my family and perhaps H is on the spectrum too. I wouldn't doubt it the way he can rattle off names and models and years of cars and airplanes and boats. I have more of a photographic memory and I am nitpicky about spelling and such. I am also really into Pokemon and Yugioh and Magic Cards. I do a lot of fantasy role playing games. I live for medieval things too. I don't think I am your average mother where we live. People in my area are more concerned with looking nice -hair and nail done all the time and having nice cars-really expensive hummers. I live in sweats all day and I am more practical than needing to drive a gas guzzling hummer.

My husband is considered very aloof and distant by many many people and perhaps that is a problem in itself. Even my son's IC said to me "I am having a really hard time communicating with your husband. We just arent connecting and I am not quite getting how he relates with anyone." We have been with this IC for several years now.
Perhaps the way he is with me is nothing he can change or do. Perhaps that is him and perhaps that is you. Maybe he doesn't mean to be unavailable, hurtful at times and negligent and neither do you. Perhaps it is because he is on the spectrum too and can't. Why couldn't I have married a smooth talking, romantic yet manipulative husband?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Do you think MB views and plans work for a spouse who is on the autistic spectrum?

By the way, my son was diagnosed with PDD NOS but now they have moved him up towards HFA and AS plus the mood swings.


So do you think there is a cure for being on a spectrum?

I mean how love busting can this conversation be:

"Honey can you bring home some handcuffs so I can handcuff our son to his bed when he starts to rage and try to run out of the house into traffic. "

That kind of daily conversation can honestly ruin any form of romance.

Wow I am rereading your post and you mentioned that you have TWO sons. One is in a special school. That is really expensive I bet. Is your 8yrs old right now in public or private regular school? I haven't had too much luck getting school districts to help out with much. It has always been such a fight.

Is there MC for families with a spouse or two on the spectrum I wonder? Out of curiosity do you know if OM is on the spectrum too?

I thnk my OM is on the spectrum too and one of his son is most definitely on the spectrum. The two of them sit and rattle off numbers all day long. Although I think my OM is less spectrum affected socially than my H. OM is not as distant and aloof as H.

Hi dewt,

You are in a very priveliged position here, believe it or not.

Your wife is at home, and your only obstacle is convincing HER that it is worth fighting for.

She may be your soulmate, but that is not enough. You need to BE her soulmate. Does that make sense?

Don't give up. You are feeling disillusioned but youhave to try and think positive. Your are giving off negative vibes with these thoughts.

If she thinks you are having doubts, the situation becomes twice as bad in her eyes.

Truth is, she may not want to end it, but is merely feeling over-cautious and doubtful about your chances of success. You have both hurt each other a lot, and it will take time for her to feel better about this.

Your girlfriends may be bothering her more than she is letting on. Thats just a female perspective.

It gets complicated when both have had an A. There is no simple BS/WS definition and it just seems like one big mess. Don't beat yourself up, and try and move on from the past and create the prospect of a future together.

Just some thoughts.

Lots of love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hello Dewt,
First off, you are very welcome. secondly, you said "it's one small sentence. Why does it mean so much to me?" Maybe because you are feeling insecure & that things are not clear 'word-wise'. You know, faith and trust are things that we develope over time. Mostly these things are based on repeated actions on the other person's part. Eventually we become conditioned to understand and to trust the person. You two are in a space right now where you are putting your love for one another into action again. The things of the past are being redefined, wounds are healing ever-so-slowly. You both have histories of having affairs and hurting one another thru them. Now is the time where you are both showing one another that you are both making sacrifices... you are both in the process of redefining your relationship. For each of you to make a verbal commitment, to me is secondary cause the proof is in the pudding.
You, right now, have to be patient with Dylan, I understand your insecurity, but you can't allow yourself to use this as an excuse to pressure her, or end things, or even to justify any underlying thoughts of having your physical needs being met via an affair again. Dylan needs to know that she is worth the wait. My feeling is that she is waiting for you as well; waiting for you to prove to her that you are and will be there for her.
I have a good feeling about you two. Try not to mess things up on your part. My impression is that you may be looking for justification o these boards for giving up. Poeple here seem to like being victims and like to encourage the victim to some degree. It's not time for you to end things, it's time for you to continue to rediscover Dylan and for her to rediscover you, this takes time, because your histories have transformend the both of you.

Praying for you,
Peace,
Odyssey

Hi again Dewt,
... and maybe Dylan doesn't want to be with the "old" Dewt. Maybe she is getting to know, like, love the new Dewt. My point is, she cannot make a commitment to a relationship based on past dynamics which have hurt the both of you. Maybe, just maybe though, she is giving the new relationship a chance to develope. Maybe she has the same hopes you do: that something beautiful will develope making room for a new look on Love.
I'm sure it is all as difficult for her as it is for you.
What do you think?

Peace,
Odyssey