My husband moved out about a month ago. He lives with a family member. OW lives over 10 hours away so they do not see each other very much. But there is constant phone contact as much as 4 hours some nights.

My husband does not want our marriage anymore. Says he does not want to be married, never loved me thought he could grow to love me, married me for the wrong reasons, it's not about OW, that he knows even if he tries that it won't work out. And much more fog talk.

I did plan A before he moved out but not the greatest one. I realize I pushed him away further constantly talking about OW, R and ending things with her. Last night I went to his sisters for dinner. He was upset because the night before he listened in on a phone conversation I had with his sister. She has stood by me all these months and does not agree with what he is doing. He said I make him sound like the bad guy. I said I don't have to say anything they can judge themselves with your actions.

He says he wants a divorce. I said I don't. He says to bad that I cannot force someone to stay married. That just makes them resent me more. He says I can keep the house and can have anything I want. Just let him go. He seems already set that this won't work out because he doesn't want to try. In other words he does not want to do NC with OW. Throughout the whole year he has been wishy washy. One minute saying he wanted to try and do NC. The next minute saying he doesn't. I am tired of the limbo.

Last week I did not call him at all. I did email him 3 times. He did not call to check on me at all. He called the boys two nights and talked about 2 minutes.

I asked him to think about giving our marriage another try. I said atleast a year of doing NC, MC and truly working on the areas we know were problems. I said then if by the end of the year if things don't feel right for you still then we can talk about what to do next. I said if things change and we can make it better. What do you have to lose. I said everyone is happy. I said but if you give up now everyone loses and there will be a lot of hurt and pain for us and our kids.

He said he would think about it. But did I set myself up to fail? If he agrees to give it a year he may just do it to end things finally. I am trying to let him alone to give him space while he is living away to think about things. Not just what I said. To think about life without us and what he is doing. But it is so frustrating because we cannot make any progress towards anything until he stops with this girl. I think his problem right now is the fact that everyone wants him to work on his marriage. My family, his family and me and he feels forced and pressured. He said this makes him want to do the opposite. Guess he is like a child rebeling.

I am lost. Feeling like there is no hope.

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: ForeverChanging ]</small>

You know what? Whenever any of us make a decision to take any action, we set ourselves up for failure.

But it is so frustrating because we cannot make any progress towards anything until he stops with this girl. I think his problem right now is the fact that everyone wants him to work on his marriage. My family, his family and me and he feels forced and pressured. He said this makes him want to do the opposite.

But you can't make him stop, right? So, what can you do? You go to work on what you do have. YOU!

You said you didn't do a very good Plan A. And WH is willing to give you some time, maybe up to a year? Get busy with Plan A, and correct all that you did wrong with it before. Prepare yourself to face life without him, because there ARE NO guarantees he'll "return" to the marriage.

But if you did a poor Plan A, you might be ensuring he won't return. Yes, it's a really hard thing to do, but it's a proven way to reconnect and begin the healing.

Show a little independence, and let him know your world does NOT revolve around him. Show him your world revolves around YOU, and he is welcome in your world, but you don't HAVE to have him there for YOUR HAPPINESS.

Set your resolve, and work on this for a while. Remember, addictions are hard to break, so measure your success in months, not days or weeks.

Best wishes
SD

Also since his last visit during Halloween to OW he no longer wants SF, will not touch me, when I try to hug him he pushes me away, will not kiss me even on the cheek and his this cold distant look in his eye. It hurts to much to be rejected. He changes so much from day to day, hour to hour and minute by minute.

One time he is talking sweet and joking with me on the phone the next minute he is back to being cruel and uncaring. Last night after things cooled down and he said he would think about things. We went out to dinner and took the kids. I saw the man I fell in love with. He was smiling and joking and caring. I guess I just don't understand him.

Thank you for your advice. Since he has left I have done a lot of thinking and it has given me time to realize things about myself and our marriage. I allowed my husband to become my life. My happiness depended on him. I pretty much put any goals, dreams and hopes on a backburner and tried to please him. Of course my trying to please him was the way I wanted to be loved not the needs that was most important to him. Which left his real needs unmet.

It was hard when he first left. Like he is addicted to this OW I was addicted to him. I couldn't sleep or think without him being on my mind. I constantly called him just like he does OW. I backed off a great deal since him leaving. I do not NEED to call him anymore. But I want to call him and I want him in my life. I know I can make it without him but I guess I just don't want to. I try to focus on my kids, myself and this pregnancy but it's hard when it feels sometimes like my world is crashing around me.

Most (not all) MEN have big emotional needs for admiration from the woman in his life ... $10 says that OW spends lots of time greasing your H with admiration (largly unearned admiration, but no matter).

Make it your business to ~ admire your H ~ at least once every conversation. And don't make the admiring comment too predictable ... not always the same... mix it up. Admire him in ways you never thought of before. Make a list of ideas, so that you can come up with something at a moment's notice. And, don't lay it on too thick and sound phoney ... just listen to what he says when you do speak to each other, and recognize an opportune moment and jump in and say something positive about H that is unexpected.

Another Plan A idea is for you to become a more skilled conversationalist. Read current events, and use some newsworthy tid-bits during your conversations. Read something that asks complicated soul-searching questions... and offer them to your H from time to time. Have you read "Tuesdays With Morrie"? Books like that, which dive into "the meaning of life" questions can open up deeper and more meaningful conversations with your H. he'll find talking with you pleasurable if you have something new and exciting and a little challenging to offer.

Obviously, your H has emotional need for conversation (4 hours a nite !!! ~whew~) .... and I think YOU could become the more interesting person for him to talk to... with a little pre-thought and preparation on your part.

Stay off relationship topics until you are more emotionally settled.

That is a start to meeting his ENs. (emotional needs)

In the meantime... read and study the MB concepts. Own them. Make them yours. Then, work it!

Good luck.

Pep

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

FC,

Pep and SD are right, start doing a good Plan A now to attract him back. Begin a consistent program of attraction. Try to meet his needs and avoid lovebusters. Ask yourself if you were him, who would you rather be around: you or the doting, admiring OW? Become the woman again that he fell in love with.


You must be strategic about this, FC, and try to control your emotions. I know its easier said than done, but it can be done.

I think you might find this thread about Carol's story very helpful: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880#000000

Pep,
You hit it right on. My H emotional needs are admiration and conversation. I suck at conversation. I am so shy and he is so outgoing and very deep in his thinking and ideas. He is a artist/writer.

I bought the book of questions. But haven't used it yet. I will look into the book you suggested. I think with the OW she goes to college, is a drama student, has his same goals and leads the life he wished he lived. And that makes her even more appealing. I am the nagging, mother of soon to be 3, boring and in his opinion enjoys the simple life.

I guess the hardest part for me is to sit back while he continues with the OW and not say anything. I usually end up upset about it. My friends told me I just need to bite my tongue for awhile and see how it plays out. He feels caged in the marriage right now. I guess I just need to let go work on myself and see if he comes back or not.

Mel,
Yes he has also told me why would I want to call you when you act like that when I call. Says atleast she isn't nagging and accusing. Of course not she isn't in my shoes. She is getting what she wants. I know the things I need to change. It's hard but if I want a chance at saving my marriage I have to focus on it and do it.

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: ForeverChanging ]</small>

Why did he fall in love with you, FC? What were your qualities that attracted him?

I would point out that opposites do attract. I am very outgoing and talkative, my H is a man of few words. But I am attracted to that because I can chitter chatter while he listens. I get my need for conversation filled elsewhere. I would get very tired of having to compete with a chatterbox spouse at home!

My point is please don't think that you aren't the RIGHT kind of person for him because you are opposites, it means no such thing. And there must have been something there that caused him to fall in love with you in the first place!

At the time I met him he was divorced for 2 years. His ex-wife cheated on him and left him and their son to be with OM. When we started dating we also talked for 2-3 hours every single night we dated. And we dated for over 3 years. He said he loved my big heart, the way I accepted his then 3 year old son, he said I made him realize he could be happy again.

We did so much together. We had hopes, dreams and goals but after we got married those things went on the backburner because we had our first son. Now we are about to have our first daughter soon. He feels he is stuck in a life that is going nowhere. He has big hopes and dreams and feels held back.

I told him we can do new things together. Take some continuing education classes together, join a gym together, we can grow together and have hopes and dreams again. That we both got married and really didn't try we just thought things would continue as they were. He said it's to late that nothing will change how he feels.

I think he is afraid to try. Afraid to give up OW and things go back to where they were before.

Mel,
I use to believe that opposites attract. But he feels that we are not compatible. Even though I think he should have knew that before we were married. Since we dated almost 4 years.

I talked to him once today. We didn't say much and I did not mention any R talk once. I am trying to distance myself from him a bit. But when we do have contact I want it to be positive. He says he may move back home once the baby comes at the end of the month. Also he wants his guy friend to move in with us for awhile because he is having a hard time. I feel like that is the only reason for him coming home ... But his sister told me it's a start. Maybe I can make the best of the time he is here and maybe he will want to continue to try.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverChanging:
] Mel,
I use to believe that opposites attract. But he feels that we are not compatible. Even though I think he should have knew that before we were married. Since we dated almost 4 years. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is all fog talk designed to rewrite history in order to justify the affair. You don't have to pay it any mind. They all say this kind of crap. Notice he wasn't saying this BEFORE he started having an affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I talked to him once today. We didn't say much and I did not mention any R talk once. I am trying to distance myself from him a bit. But when we do have contact I want it to be positive. He says he may move back home once the baby comes at the end of the month. Also he wants his guy friend to move in with us for awhile because he is having a hard time. I feel like that is the only reason for him coming home ... But his sister told me it's a start. Maybe I can make the best of the time he is here and maybe he will want to continue to try. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't think of any good reason to allow some guy friend to move in with you, can you? I agree that you should let your H move back in, but I would pass on the friend. Your marriage is in trouble and you have a new baby coming; it is completely inappropriate to have some guy move in.

I do not want his friend here. I expressed that to him. He says it's his home also. His friend just got divorced, is depressed and talks about ending his life. He wants to help him out. I agree with you. Are marriage is in trouble and we will have a new baby. I just don't see it helping our situation. He keeps telling me give it a chance. Hmmmm but he won't give our marriage a real chance.

He feels this will help his friend save money and get back on his feet. My husband has always been like this. A huge heart when it comes to friends, family and even strangers. I think this is what led to his EA. The OW has many emotional issues due to her mother abandoning her when she was a child. Also he relates to that because his son's mom did the same to him.

I feel he is putting so much pressure and guilt on me about this guy. But he doesn't like it when I put pressure on him about something he doesn't want to do. He can have compassion for his friend in my situation but he doesn't seem to have any compassion for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverChanging:
<strong> Mel,
I use to believe that opposites attract. But he feels that we are not compatible. Even though I think he should have knew that before we were married. Since we dated almost 4 years.

I talked to him once today. We didn't say much and I did not mention any R talk once. I am trying to distance myself from him a bit. But when we do have contact I want it to be positive. He says he may move back home once the baby comes at the end of the month. Also he wants his guy friend to move in with us for awhile because he is having a hard time. I feel like that is the only reason for him coming home ... But his sister told me it's a start. Maybe I can make the best of the time he is here and maybe he will want to continue to try. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*****SIGH********

Sorry for your pain. You can't make your Husband do what you want...no matter what. You can't change him no matter how much "strategic planning" you do. If he is gonna come back into your life, THE RIGHT WAY...he has to do it of his own free volition. I truly believe that the reason there are so many damn FALSE RECOVERIES (at least 90% of the stories here involve this) is becasue all of this " stategic scheming" and "planning" and the like is just that.....scheming to get the WS back. Ofcourse any sane human being can't keep up the "scheming" forever and eventually the WS goes back to the affair after the guilt or whatever subsides, and the cycle repeats itself. I know that many on here will just give you the standard Plan A everything answer.... I freely acknowledge that I am pretty much alone in my beliefs on here and many posters here have the experience of navigating a "marriage recovery" that I don't have (and trutfully if you know my story DON'T WANT).

My question to you is: How "needy" are you in relation to your husband? Your husband wants a "strong" woman and "neediness" and "clinginess" are the WORST things you can possobly do to "lure" him back as you are trying to do. Just some food for thought. This is my OPINION only and there are ofcourse far more knowledgeable posters here who disagree vehemently with me, so take it for what it is worth. Remember you have a lot going for you in that his affair will NOT LAST. If there is anything that is a fact on this board it is that premise. Affairs are rooted in deceit and lies. They can't TRULY last. The posters here can hopefully "keep you strong" while your husband and his affair run's it's course and then I am sure that he will give you a second chance to win him back. You hopefully can give him all of the admiration and love that he needs so he doesn't betray you again. TRUST ME ON THIS: You will have your chance to win him back, it just may take some time. Good luck in "luring" your husband back, I am rooting for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM,
When my husband first told me about everything and the months following I was needy, clingy and other negative things. I guess I just handled it all wrong. But at the time I didn't know how to handle something like this. I never expected him to do this to me even in my worst dreams.

I am trying to be stronger. Our MC said I need to become more independant. I was relying on my husband for all my happiness. In the last few months I got a part-time job which has helped me focus on something more than him. I am looking into some craft classes, continuing education classes at the local college and also when the baby is born I want to join a gym.

I am moving on with my life but there is a empty place in my heart. I know I cannot make him want to come back home and try. But I feel like I can improve and that may put the desire back in his heart to come back and see what happens. My husband still insists to everyone that there has been no SF with the OW. Even told the MC that in a private session. He feels that is one thing that he should not do because it is not right to her or me. I think that is why he is insisting on a divorce so bad.

You are on the right track here. Don't look back on what you didn't perhaps do right. You did the best you could at the time. For goodness sakes, you are pregnant right?

I agree with the advice to keep working on yourself. Take care of yourself. APPEAR to be moving on, just as your H asks. Reverse fog talk back to him--call his bluff. My H used to feel pressured too and I think it increased the excitement and drama for him and OW--their unbelievable connection that no one else could understand.

No matter whether your M survives or not, you will need to make changes in yourself to be more confident, self satisfied and loving of yourself. Sounds like you are already doing that. Good for you.

Hold on loosely---be kind, be a friend, bring up subjects that interest him and engage him like you used to, but no R talk. At this point a BS has to develop quite a thick skin and handle a lot of rejection. Come here for support.

Since your H is already out of the house, I really wouldn't have him back unless he is willing to guarantee no contact, i.e. access to all his phones, email and passwords and he is accountable to you for his time.

On Lemonman's line of thinking, check out "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. He doesn't advocate any Plan A, just basically a Plan B. I read and reread what he wrote just to give me courage that if I kept allowing the contact I could kiss my M goodbye. It helped me, maybe it can help you too.

FC,

You know, the more I read about your situation the more I can't help but think that your H won't wake up until he is making all of his own decisions.

Yes, yes, I know he is making his own decisions right now, but he feels forced into them.

I know that right now might not be the ideal time for Plan B, but a some point I think you might have to pull all of the excuses out from under him so that he will have to own each and every decision he makes, and the aftermath that follows. Right now he blames everyone else, most of all you. He will continue to do that until you are no longer in the picture to blame.

I can't help but think it will be a rude awakening for him.

Hugs.

~ Snow

Had to change from my usual name because he comes here to read my posts.

Snow,
I agree with you. I am going to have the baby and take things from there. If he still is acting like this then I will go to plan B. I am distancing myself now and trying to focus more on what I NEED to do. I really do not call him anymore unless it's a question about the kids or something important. I got to the point where he would not click over to me when talking with OW and I could not handle that. So it's best if I don't even call and put myself in that chaos.

His family believes he is making a huge mistake. They also believe life with the OW will be shortlived IF they ever get together. No person I know that is 21, single, in college and has freedom wants a man with 3 kids, 2 marriages, obligations, almost 30 and so far away. They believe she is using him until she either finds someone or the challenge is over. Then he will be hurt all over again just like he was with his exwife. But of course he cannot see that right now.

Something SpiderSlayer said to me one day always stays with me. She said right now he associates me with his unhappiness. He feels I and our marriage is what is making him unhappy. But his unhappiness is really from his own choices he has made. And now he has to realize that one his own.

One thing that he now realizes is the fact that he blamed our marriage for his lack of motivation to get his book finished. He felt like it was holding him back. Well he went to his sisters to work on it and now he can't get motivated there either. He found that going to the mall down there and sitting for a few hours and drawing and writing motivates him. He is almost done with his book. It is adorable. It is called "Where babies come from."

It just shows him what he thought really wasn't the case though.

He called two times today. Both times I was cheerful and did not bring up anything that would make him defensive. I know I can change. I know I NEED to make some changes. If this relationship doesn't work out my future relationships will benefit from it.

He will be dropping off my stepson later. He still lives with me. I don't think taking him out of his school and away from the home he has been use to the last 3 years would be fair or good for him. I finished cleaning and am making some homemade chicken soup. I am feeling very good today and feel so much stronger than I did this time last month when he left.

I did really well tonight. He came to drop off my stepson and pick up some of his clothes for this week. I was cheerful and I did not bring up any subject that would make him upset. I didn't see the distant, uncaring and angry guy that I have been seeing. I saw the guy I married.

He hung around for about two hours. Ate some of my chicken soup, gave our son a bath because it's hard for me to bend over right now, took out the trash and played with our son. We even laughed and joke around a little. He still does not want to give me a hug. He acts like I am some disease or something. But before he left he did give me a hug a real hug because I hugged him and a kiss on the forehead. I guess it's a start.

I miss him already though. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Awhile back he said he would read some of my books. He was packing his bag and I asked him if he would like to take one of them to read. He took one and said it might be a interesting read. He took the book "After the Affair." I told him if he reads it maybe we could discuss it one night he calls. I am not expecting much. I don't think he will read it but he may surprise me.

Today is one of those days where I am ready to just throw in the towel. I know I just set myself up to get hurt. Sometimes I look at his cell minutes. I saw yesterday he talked for about 7 hours total. He only called me for 10 minutes at the most.

I guess I just don't see him giving up his relationship with OW anytime soon. He talks about moving back home when the baby comes but I really don't want him here if he is going to continue with her. I cannot go back into that daily routine of him going out after 9 to call her for hours and then coming back in the house like he did nothing wrong. I cannot handle the hurt that causes. And I am sure it will not be good for me to go through that considering the doc said I am high risk for postpartum depression. So if he cannot come home with the will to try then I will manage without him.

I love him so much and want him in my life. But it's hard to feel rejected and not wanted by someone who once valued and respected you.