I woke up this morning and my thoughts turned to those questions.

You know:
Why did this happen?
Why me?
Why now?
What went wrong?
When did this start?
Where do we go from here?

Then it hit me like a ton of bricks! Another epiphany.

My next question to myself was
What if WH had come to me BEFORE he went down this path to divorce and said

"Darling S, I am really unhappy with our marriage and my thoughts are towards leaving. Can we do something before it is too late? Or the same thing as last time happens."

Or, "Darling S, I am starting to think I would be better off alone. Can we talk?"

What would your reaction have been? UH DUH! We all love our spouses. We all want to stay married. Would we had tried to change things to make it better?

Of course we would. And that is why I am so hurt and angry and feeling betrayed. I kept saying he was being dishonest. BUt it is more that that. He CHOSE not to say where his thoughts were leading him. He CHOSE to not include me in his journey. He CHOSE to let things crash and burn for him without letting me in on it. And, at the same time resenting me for not seeing his pain. WHich made him able to justify his current actions.

Imagine for a minute that the above scenario had actually happened. And, you BOTH went to IC and MC. THEN, you would have had, at the very least, the opportunity to work on things before they were a total disaster.

At least you would have had the chance to see where things went wrong.

At least if things were irretrievable, you would be involved in the dissolution of your marriage.

Oh my GOsh! How different we would be today. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am bringing this up with the counsellor on Monday. And again on Friday when WH and I are going together.

Any thoughts?

<small>[ November 15, 2004, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: fightingalone-again ]</small>

Hi faa,

Many of us have already had your epiphany a long time ago,it's the $64,000 question.Why didn't they(WS)tell us something was wrong?

Usually we get the answer,"I don't know".For a handful here they say,"Well I tried to reach my spouse but they just wouldn't listen" or something to that effect.

Yes,a monumental amount of pain and suffering could have been avoided by not making the choice to cheat.But,IMO,it's the easier and more selfish way to try and solve problems in the marriage to a WS.Not.Rather,*avoid problems is the better term.Entitlement comes to mind as well.

*sigh* But we can't alter the past and other's choices,all we can do is try to rebuild after the wake of destruction.

O

An affair is totally impossible with PORH.

Its a fact! Tell everyone you know! Lets try and prevent further madness.

Thats all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't know. I have been very forthcoming to my husband about my unhappiness. I have told him straight out about how unhappy I was with the marriage and what I needed blah blah. I have even gone so far to say I am going to have an affair and Including downloading pages from this site a year ago or so. He remained closed and above all defensive. I just didn't get the right message from him. We have been to IC and MC still to no avail. We just don't argue or talk very much period. In general it is a tension free marriage there isnt a whole lot of arguing or yelling. He goes off and does his thing and I sit and fume and let it out on the net or email. That is just how it is. When he comes back we just carry on as is...go see a movie with the kids, read a book with the kids, he'll make us something to eat but that is about it. It has been hard to just sort of take off for the day now that the kids are older and our afternoons are spent on driving the kids to their lessons and such. Perhaps this is just a stage and once the kids can drive on their own we;ll have more time to ourselves.

I ask myself why I am in this marriage and it is for the kids and I know how horrible it was for me when my parents divorced. Besides I would never want any other woman to parent my child other than myself and husband.

I am sure many people ask why just their spouse didn't tell them in the first place but perhaps it was just a sign or message they got from you that it would be futile or that it would make matters worse.

So this is just another perspective. I wish it were black and white but it isn't .

I must be possessed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I cannot stop asking that what if question. And I am so angry that I have to go through all of this bs because my then H, now WH again, couldn't find the words to tell me that he wasn't happy. How sick is that? Does that mean he was in a fog?
Perhaps he never moved on after the last time.

This is fruitless, I know that. I can't ask him because he won't answer my emails. Yet, how can I move past this? I am stuck. I know every BS asks the same questions. And the WH are all in a fog. ANd I know I can't MAKE him do anything or remember that he loved me or whatever.

I guess I am just fighting the injustie of this entire situation.

Sigh.

Octobergirl, I believe that the "I don't know" Or the one I get is, "You never listened to me" is the biggest cop-out in the world.

Laundry Mistress, HOw frustrating it must be for you. To tell your H that you are unhappy and have him shut you out. THat is totally different from the common excuse that WSs use. SOunds like he has some issues. Is that right? I am glad that you are trying to communicate. It IS hard to share how you feel. But, going to an IC and MC is important. I have fought for so long to get my WH to even go at all. But, I can tell you are so unhappy. Has he opened up in IC? How about you?

KS... What is PORH? Policy of Real Husband? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Policy of Relative Humility? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 14, 2004, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: fightingalone-again ]</small>

I ask myself the same questions all the time.
There is no answer I can come up with.
I think it's one of the main sources of pain for the people here. In knowing, that if we knew things were that bad, we could have done something about them. Or at least been given the opportunity to try.

Evening TTSi. You didn't come to my Whine and Pity Party yesterday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It was just one of those days where I needed to feel really sorry for myself. So, I thought it would be a good idea to invite everyone else to do the same.

I guess those questions will burn in my brain and in my heart until I can either get an answer from him or the answer won't matter as much as it does now. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How are things in your neck of the woods? Did you check with your lawyer about the debt thingy? Is it the same in the States?

Sorry, I would have been there with the W&P party, but I wasn't around much yesterday, or today for that matter... Had a lot of family reunion type stuff going on this weekend.

I don't hold out for an answer to those questions. No matter what it is, it wouldn't be a good enough answer, not to justify this pain. Not ever. I think it will have to come to a point to where the answer will just have to not matter anymore.

As far as the money thing goes, it's a community property state, so all debts and assets can be split 50/50 if either party goes that route. Looking back I could have done a separation agreement, and I still can. Honestly though, in thinking about all of that, I'm going to go with standing up for what I beleive in and my principles. Although it may be tough for some people to understand, money comes and goes. But how I handle myself though this, will be more important than saving a few bucks. We were already in some debt when this started, and when she was pushing for divorce initially, she was going to take all her debt with her.
So at any point, she could stick me with half of that anyway.

My husband has never really been open to any IC. He was an alcoholic for 20 years. He was two years dry when I met him. He has been dry for 10 years now. Is this common for alcoholics to shut down like this?
He has not gone to AA in the last 10 years. He said he never needs it. He is doing just fine. His family is doing just fine. Blah Blah blah.
Fighting aloneagain: I have been so honest in IC in the past it isn't even funny. I even told therapist "well lets have an affair since I am not getting any at home" and we would spend the whole time talking dirty to one another. He asked me if there was anything he could do for me and I just told him I just want to talk. I need someone to just talk to. He stopped seeing me after the check bounced twice.
My husband went in and kept saying that we were doing great and that the work hours were rough and that finances were rough.

I am so so sorry that your husband went wayward without even telling you. Sometimes it can be embarrassing to tell your spouse that you are so unhappy. It feels shameful and you want things to not be so bad. You feel that you are not being appreciative. What is worse is when you tell the other person how unhappy you are with the marriage yet unable to give anything concretely as to how to improve it. So it is a vicious cycle.
Then you think well it would be better if I don't tell that person so they don't get hurt and they go into the A without realizing how addicting and how attached you can be with the other person. They enjoy the other person but don't want to hurt the family either.
Do you think it is possible to love/care for more than one person at a time? I now believe it is possible.
I hope this helps...in some way in understanding his perspective...

Myself, I don't think it's possible to love and care for two people at the same time, in that way at least. While you are loving one of them, you are not loving the other, as what you are doing is hurting the other person.

FAA I had been instigating relationship discussions for months before the A to be met with anger then silence from Squid.
I aksed her just after D-day why she didn't discuss our M problems over the months to avoid this Affair and she said " I chose not to. I didn't want to fix our marriage".

That was very hurtful. It was either fog or honesty, I suspect honesty. she was so embroiled in the pre-PA EA with OM she really didn't want to save our M at the time.

Well for me right now I am thinking:
Oh I hope H will make it through tomorrow alright. That he doesn't go and blow his brains out. That he doesn't go and drink tomorrow night.
That he talks to someone soon and not hold it all in.

Then I think...I hope H doesn't go blow OM brains out and what would happen to his boys and what if there is an ugly confrontation and physical violence. I hope OM is happy with his girlfriend and not sitting home alone as I was his other friend. He confided in me a lot about his troubles with his girlfriend and ex wives and I tried to give him advice. I hope the boys aren't sad about us not coming by and visiting them. I feel so bad for his ex girlfriend. I hope he is honest with her about what happened so they can protect their relationship if they do decide to get back together.

I feel like I care a lot for both of these people and the families involved.

What a horrible mess.

Hi FAA, I thought my WH did move out for some time alone. He told me he was feeling low, fed-up, he didn't know that he loved me, felt a general malaise. I looked him in the eye and asked if there was someone else messing with his mind. Not necessarily an affair, just an attraction. But no. He looked at me so earnestly and made me feel guilty for asking. He had been over-worked, we had house building problems which incurred debts, he has terrible health issues. So I took a step back, put no pressure on him and let him go to a separate apartment to sort himself out. NOONE and I say again, NOONE could have been more caring and understanding and put less pressure on their spouse than me. Because I believed him.

He came home at the weekends and I tried to make an effort in the bedroom. I put satin sheets on the bed, stroked him, cared for him, cooked for him (his diet plays a very important part of his health issues and I was worried he'd be eating crap if he was away from home). I would guess he started to look forward to coming home for the weekends and after a few months, sure enough he made his way back to us.

And that's when the phone calls started from OW. Just as she thought she was losing her grip, she played her killer blow. We started getting pesky phone calls in the middle of the night (he must have been kakking himself) and then eventually she let me know the full blown details of their affair. Not a nice person but it takes two to tango.

So this is a very long-winded way to say I totally agree with you. Without a doubt, when he moved out, I took a long hard look at my marriage and knew we had to make some changes. So, without even knowing plan A existed, I did it. I was non-confrontational, caring etc and he saw it and came back to it.

Boy, did I feel stupid when I discovered the truth. I think that in hindsight, even my WH would say that if he had stepped outside the M before he got himself embroiled in his A, we could have worked on things and made changes that could really have helped us both to appreciate one another better. WHY WHY WHY was he not able to even once try to explain how he was feeling. My guess is that it was all just too exciting and once he got sucked into it, the adrenaline rush was far too enjoyable.

We're separated at the moment. Once the truth was out he never tried to make it up to me. Says he's not sure how to make amends so he feels it's easier to walk away. Bloody coward.

Bloody coward.

* nods *

Can't give a man grit I'm afraid. He has to find that for himself.

Good Morning Everyone.

LM: Just hang in there. Is there ANY place that you can tell you H about the A that is safe? {{{LM}}}

TT: I know how you feel. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Repeatedly banging your head up against their wall of denial of any problems or an EA/PA. I think that is one of the reasons I am having so hard a time now.

TTSI: I admire your high road approach. It says a lot about you and your principles.

Bob Pure: On the mark again! BOth that they choose not to communicate and that they are cowards.

I guess I have a problem dealing with a lot of this becasue I am a person who sees something wrong and wades right in to fix it. WHether it is my concern or not. If I know a solution or think I can help, I am right in it. So, when my WH lets things slide and then crash out of control, I just don't get it. If things are important enough, I will not ever, give up on trying to fix things. Sigh.