Stanley,

Keeping the secret about A's is what keeps the mystery alive with them in society. Is it so horrible to openly talk about it with your family and friends? Quite possibly it may prevent it from happening with those that you love, if you expose the destruction of family and personal destruction. No one can truly understand the pain that a family endures as a result of an A unless they live it themselves, but if it is exposed as the true destruction ball that it is, maybe other lives may be spared. I had no idea MB even existed...if I had known that it was truly the no. 1 cause of destruction of family (alcohol abuse, physical abuse doen't even come close to destroying as many families as infidelity), I would have known how to cope in the early days. I felt so alone and isolated.

I don't believe this is something that should be kept quiet if we want to save marriages and families. IMHO

I need to emphasize that if this is a topic for discussion it needs to be with adult children.

BBRRIIAANN- Why is your name with two letters of each?
Anyways, my husband thinks that I dont want to talk of the affair anymore, because its so easy for me since I am not the betrayed spouse. It is very difficult to be the "bad" one in the marriage. Of course we dont want to talk about the big offense we did to our spouse. We dont need the remainder EVERY SINGLE day of what we did. WE want to put it behind as fast as possible.
I know the affair needs discussion, but it should only be at the first stages after DD.
After both spouses are truly commited in saving the marriage, it should not be the favorite topic of conversation. It makes me feel very bad to be aware every day of my past ugly actions. I want to forget it all!!!!
In the actions of the betrayed spouse(the clingy,low self=esteem)we can see and be aware of the damage we caused. So actions and verbal at the same time are quiete too much to take. In one hand the BS is so hurt, but at the same time, they are so in love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , or so my husband says. Its a very contradictory thing to tell you the truth, well, for me it is!!

MYRTA

[QUOTE]I don't believe this is something that should be kept quiet if we want to save marriages and families. IMHO

I need to emphasize that if this is a topic for discussion it needs to be with adult children.[QUOTE]


JW:

I understand that if the affair was public the chances of my wife and OM to have reconciliation would be 0.00000000000% where the number of zeros to the right of the decimal point would be infinite.

As of now there is always a chance of NC breakage and a reconnection. I am well aware of that danger and I ask my wife every day if there was a sighting of OM. If this was in daylight I would not have to worry about it--- I know.

If my grown up kids knew about the affair they would be completely destroyed. They think my wife and I are the most perfect couple in the universe. If my family ever finds out I could not face them-------- I would be consumed by shame. My wife is in agreement------- we could not face the family. In fact I believe daylight could even destroy what we have now as a couple. My wife is doing great and as far as I know there is NC. She is also committed to save the marriage. So at this point I rather not create more waves. Does that make sense?

Sorry for momentary thread diversion!

Mytrta,

Do you realize that it takes a minimum of 2 yrs to emotionally recover from an A? You don't want to be reminded of it everyday? Imagine the hell going through your spouses mind everyday. It is inescapable! A BS can't get away! It consumes in small, or sometimes a great part of their thoughts. Am I doing the showing the right actions, am I saying the right words, am I meeting the EN of my spouse, what if I'm not...will they reflect on how the OP met all of these? This is a living nightmare for a BS.

If the BS is truly committed to the M they have to be prepared to deal with the peaks and valleys that go along with the recovery process. It takes great effort on both parties to foster a better M than before the A, but it takes great patience and understanding from the BS.

Stanley,

I want to pick up on your thread diversion for a moment.

Do you thank Myrta each day for not having any contact? SOmeone gave me that advice soon after D-Day...and I think it's the most important thing I've learned yet.

Obviously, I can't MAKE my wife stay away from the OM. But, I can tell her how grateful I am that she has chosen NOT to contact him. I thank her every night - and I tell her how important it is to me and how proud I am of her.

Meanwhile, she has started telling me every evening - wthout prompting - that she kept her NC agreement and that she will keep it tomorrow as well.

Maybe that's an approach that would work for you and Myrta as well? I understand that your situation is quite different from mine, however.

JELLYWINK- I think the affair should become public only if the WW insists on keeping contact. If contact is cut from DD, what the point of making it public? Hurt the children with the knowledge that one their parents is hurting the other? Putting everyone to shame for something that is already stopped?
Why should it be made public if all contact is cut?
Of course, if the WW keeps on seeing the OM-OW then by all means, tell the world! Put in the newspaper if necessary!!

MYRTA

Stanley,

Every situation is unique and has to be treated as such. Do you believe that your children will benefit from the misconception of you and your wife being the "perfect couple"? If so, then hold your tongue. If you think that the misfortunes of life is a good teaching tool then tell them. However, you know your children better than anyone...no one loves you as unconditionally as your children. Both you and your wife!

I, unfortunately, had to tell my sister, my mother, two close friends and my childs teacher. My children suffered terribly...they missed out on a year of positive parenting...unbeknownest to me. I thought I was doing a great job of keeping life status quo. Their grades proved otherwise. It is amazing how intuitive even the youngest of children are.

May God bless you and your wife!

That is very good advice Andrew. Another thing to consider is that time for A talk can be POJAed. Feelings for the BS come up whenever but for a FWS to continually be blindsided by seemingly out of the blue A talk can lead to defensiveness.

To avoid this, POJAing a set time for the conversations puts a little more control over the tone of the conversations both on the BS's part and the FWS's. The BS has time to think through what they would like to say thus avoiding excess LBing or DJing out of impulsive emotions. The goal is to enter into honest conversation and a defensive FWS has to be diffused. POJAing A conversations respects both parties.

In Enid's case there is no A talk whatsoever and that is probably what is hampering her personal recovery. Enid, I was under the impression that there was very little or no SF at all. This has changed? I would consider that a step forward at least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

Myrta,

I believe that the longer that A's remain the secretive, mystery that is glamorized by books and television and not the epidemic to M that it truly is, the longer family and marriage will suffer. I do not advocate you telling anyone close to you if both you and your spouse are against it.

My H did not want anyone to know because he wanted to maintain his "perfect H" image. However, HE decided that we should become active in the church, through marriage counseling, marriage preparation, etc. My H decided it was time to share our story.

Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm trying to leave the A alone...no talking or obsessing about it but it does come up and always because of me. I guess she doesn't want to be reminded about it because of guilt maybe?
So you think I should stop trying to talk about the A and about her feelings, do you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interestingly enough, when WW came home tonight we had an hour talk about the whole thing and this time it wasn't me who started it. Very matter of fact discussion that makes me think that unless she is still totally fogged we will be going our seperate ways in the near future. Love is still there but she has decided that because she could get involved in an affair she must be different than she used to be. The NEW her couldn't or shouldn't be confined in a conventional marriage. Personally it sounds like a load to me. It sure doesn't sound like my W of 28 yrs.
No more clingy from me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

BTW the double letters is because I have a stutter!! No really it's because brian was taken and my imagination can't come up with a stage name that quickly.

<small>[ November 17, 2004, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: bbrriiaann ]</small>

BBRRIIAANN-thats funny about the stutter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .
But I feel so bad for whats happening to you. So she just decided to leave? Hmm, thats really bad.....Yeah, the affair changes a person, but because of that she does not have to end the marriage, unless you dont want her anymore and you are not willing to work it out. But she is the one that is giving up, just like that.
I think ,she probably does not mean what she is saying to you. Maybe tomorrow she will be saying something different to you. Your mind gets kinda of dazed and confused when you are going thru so much. Just wait and see what tomorrow brings.
Ihope everything resolves in a good way for both of you.
Good luck Brian!!

MYRTA

MYRTA

We have been staggering around now for 6 weeks since discovery. No lies to each other, nofights or dramatics. Just calm discussion. I think we have good days and bad days but she says they are all bad for her...it's just sometimes she doesn't hide her feelings as well. She loves me, she would like to work it out but she thinks she has changed too much and our incompatibilities are becoming significant. Our values are similar...you can't be happy for 28 yrs and have dificiencies there but she thinks because she could choose to love 2 men at the same time it's because she has changed and that makes her different from the girl I married...do you follow that?
So we are still together and she doesn't want either of us to make any rash descissions but I get the feeling she has already decided we can't resolve this so she won't be trying very hard.
I have no idea if this can be fog or not. I hope it burns off if it is.

Brian

BRIAN- I understand what you are saying,of course.
Affairs do change people, I am,feel like a different person. But I dont want to leave mymarriage and husband because of that. I want to make it with myhusband. She is probably confused, in the fog still. Thats why she is talking like that. Thats really good that you are so calm. Try to stay like that,you can think more clearly.
Good luck bri-bri!

MYRTA

As you all know my H has an impotency problem but when I found out that he was having sex with someone else using viagra I decided that I had lived without sex for tooooo long. I now set aside one evening a week for him to take a viagra and we have sex. He has never refused to take one (not like prior to finding out about the affair where he constantly refused to take one).

Nobody but my two daughters know about the A. My H is also one of those who wants to keep up the appearance of being the perfect H. My H doesn't know that his two daughters know. . .he would be horrified but they have been a source of such comfort to me.

I do think that not talking about the A has really hampered my recovery. But I have tried in many different ways to talk about it and he just gets cross and shuts down. He point blank refuses to talk about it. . .I really do think he feels a tremendous amount of shame.

I know that I need to recover on my own and in my own time but I just wish time would move past a little more swiftly. I am tired of feeling sad and miserable. I have no energy and nothing seems to interest me anymore. I am sure this is also having a negative effect on my M.

::::::As you all know my H has an impotency problem but when I found out that he was having sex with someone else using viagra I decided that I had lived without sex for tooooo long. I now set aside one evening a week for him to take a viagra and we have sex. He has never refused to take one (not like prior to finding out about the affair where he constantly refused to take one).

Nobody but my two daughters know about the A. My H is also one of those who wants to keep up the appearance of being the perfect H. My H doesn't know that his two daughters know. . .he would be horrified but they have been a source of such comfort to me.

No problem. I think I'd tell him they know. He needs to face what he did thru the eyes of his loved ones. They will tell him what they think of him. Both my children love their father a lot - but my son told his father he would beat the living &^%$ out of him if he ever did something like that again. And my daughter told her father she would disown him if he ever hurt me again. It was sobering for my H to have to face the wrath of his children (they were the ones who were meant to screw up - not him!). It never even entered my mind not to tell my kids (adult kids). They were informed within minutes of my finding pictures of H with OW.

::::I do think that not talking about the A has really hampered my recovery.

Absolutely! No question about that.

:::But I have tried in many different ways to talk about it and he just gets cross and shuts down.

Hey, why not slip him the Truth drug wrapped in a piece of meat! (get the subtle joke?)

A lot of WSs who give up the A think they've done good enough just stopping the A. They are still being selfish, if they won't enter into dealing with the aftermath in a productive way. Your H is preventing you having access to this part of his life which means he continues to exclude you. He probably doesn't know that the process of your recovery is for him to open up the privacy of the A. If he wants you he should expose the A to you. He owes you that. It's not private now. It's cruel to leave you in the dark. Crueler than telling you what happened. Where is the OW now btw?


::::I know that I need to recover on my own and in my own time but I just wish time would move past a little more swiftly. I am tired of feeling sad and miserable. I have no energy and nothing seems to interest me anymore. I am sure this is also having a negative effect on my M.

You are depressed by the sound of things. Not surprisingly. Do try the St. John's Wort. I think this stage is going on too long for you. You should have become angry by now. The experts tell us that we get angry when we feel totally safe about the M. I presume you do not feel safe yet. The shock has been great and I gather you are not certain yet that your H is fully committed to you (A's tend to do that - regardless of what they say to us - actions speak louder than words).

Enid - try to do somethings to lift your self esteem. Get plenty of exercise as that will make you feel good. And spend money on clothes and make up and having your hair done etc. Look after yourself. This will help more than you think.

take care
AN

:::::Very matter of fact discussion that makes me think that unless she is still totally fogged we will be going our seperate ways in the near future. Love is still there but she has decided that because she could get involved in an affair she must be different than she used to be. The NEW her couldn't or shouldn't be confined in a conventional marriage. Personally it sounds like a load to me.

Brian, Well she's fogged so bad, she believes her own BS. She's in la la land. She's hooked on OM. The rest is just justication/rationalisation so she can get back to the delusion she had going with OM. She's got a habit and it needs feeding.


:::::The NEW her couldn't or shouldn't be confined in a conventional marriage.


Wish I knew what to say. Surely she knows the OM won't make her happy in the long term? I expect she is denying that she's setting things up to run back to the OM. No 52 yo woman wants to be on her own unless she has a very good reason. A WH recently commented that a MM doesn't give up a sure thing unless he's got another sure thing to go to. Is a MW (married woman) any different?

Why not put a call thru to Steve Harley? See what he recommends you do? Coz I don't know what to say. Apart from getting the device out of your wifes head that the aliens planted there when she was abucted! Are you going to Plan B?

Basically she's a smart woman who doesn't know *&^%! People need to understand what happens to them in A's. I gather she feels a huge draw to the OM. It's very powerful - and from what other WSs have said, it can last for ages. When they don't see OP, and get to feed their addiction, they get withdrawal. She's having withdrawal that she can't stand so she's made up all this convoluted arguments to herself to justify getting more of OM. In order to fit into her previous 'value system', she needs to leave you, so she can be with OM - and she probably thinks other people (your joint friends) won't realise how bad she is if she does it this way. She's in danger of ruining her life (and yours!)

So sorry things are getting more messy for you! Why not start a new thread of your own. 'Brians in big trouble' or something! GEt some other opinions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

AN

AN

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Brian, Well she's fogged so bad, she believes her own BS. She's in la la land. She's hooked on OM. The rest is just justication/rationalisation so she can get back to the delusion she had going with OM. She's got a habit and it needs feeding </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you hit the nail on the head. For the past week or so I've had that feeling... she did go back to OM for an afternoon lunch date. She even wore her "nice" underware I'd gotten her just before this whole thing started.
As the BS we are hyper-vigilant and I noticed last week she came home that day and sneaked them into the laundry. I can't believe I did this but I checked and sure enough there was evidence.
She has now gotten to the point where lieing to me is acceptable.
With the OM back in the picture there is no recovery and no healing.
So do I get her to leave or do I pretend to know nothing and keep on Plan A hoping that when she finds herself things can be made right?
This sucks.

BRIAN= How are you doing today? Any changes with your wife?
Thats a very difficult situation you are in.
I hope your wife comes to her senses soon, before you get tired of her, of being calm and cool.
Wish you luck!

MYRTA

Myrta, I'm doing quite poorly, actually.
I've started a new thread in GQII called Brian's in big trouble to see if I can't get some quick action.

We had our talk in my car in the parking lot of her mothers nursing home. No raised voices, hardly any tears and no name calling.
I told her I knew there was something not right and went looking for proof. When I told her I'd copied the disk in her purse and read her jornal she had the bad grace to be mad at me for snooping. I found the proof that she had started S again with him a week ago.
Had I found proof that she was being honest with me I'd have begged her forgiveness.
Have I mentioned that we love each other????? This is what has got me so d*mned screwed up!
She is feeling really bad about the deception...more so than the A. (I guess you can't have one with out the other)
I am in a really bad place right now. My insides have been cut out and I don't know if I'm bleeding to death.
She will be home tonight in the spare room but will be finding her own place soon.
I don't know where to go from here.
Did I say this sucks?

brian

<small>[ November 18, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: bbrriiaann ]</small>