Just an update. My wh and I had a long talk on Friday. I did give him a modified version of the letter. It seems like he finally gets the problems he has caused. He was saying for a while that he felt that he was not doing anything wrong since he told her he was married and they had no physical contact. After talking everything out, he says that he realizes how much of a mistake that he made ( I think the voicemail from the ow scared him and made him realize she was not playing the same game as him as well). He swears to nc. He has agreed to a marriage counselor and is not being defensive when I question him any longer. He says he understands why I cannot trust him right now. We have also agreed to a new rule that if he does not feel that he can tell me about something than it is wrong and he should not do it. He says that is a good rule for him to live by. The weekend was really good and we talked more than we have in the last 2 months.

Today, with him gone for the week again, I had a setback. I started thinking this could be worse. I could start believing things are better and we could work things out and if he calls her again, it would be twice as devastating. I was able to call him and let him know what I was thinking and he was actually supportive (before he would be defensive) and swears he realizes how wrong he was and what he risked (me, and our life) and will never make the mistake again.

I think he felt that I would just always be there for him. I encouraged that attitude because he is my husband and I wanted him to know I totally supported him. I think now he realizes that even though I will always be there if he loses a job, gains weight, moves states, etc.. there is a limit to my love.

My concern is that he shows no signs of withdrawal. He claims he is relieved it is over. Should I question that?

slacker,

Glad to hear that. I don't know if I would worry yet. I mean wasn't it just a day or two ago when you had the conversation? If so he may not be showing signs of w/d yet.

Just my .02 (and my .02 is probably worth more like 2 peso's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

MiF

Slacker,

My wife's A - a ONS followed by an EA - has been over since early October, and she claims not to have a drop of withdrawl.

I thought that was funny also. I mean...that relationship was obviously important enough to her that she was willing to risk our marriage.

But she claims that she can't love two people at once. And since she has committed to our relationship, she says she has no need or desire for the OM.

I was wary at first. But..each day, I grow a bit more secure that things actually are as they seem to be: that she is done with that relationship completely and that - like your H - she is relieved to have it behind her.

I asked him about that. How he could just stop talking to her if talking to her was important enough to risk our marriage for. He said that it never enter his mind that our marriage would be at risk. He claims that until I found out and he realized how bad it all looked and how it affected me, he never thought he was doing anything wrong. He says he just didn't tell me because I was stressed over the move, work, school and home and I would not understand his need for a girl "friend". I do not know if I can believe it after all the lies but he does really seem to be trying now. And he says he was slowly stopping the calls and visits with her anyway. I think he realized she had some major emotional issues and he was involving himself too much with those.

I want to believe him so much but I am just afraid of the fall if this all turns out to be the fog you all keep talking about (which I haven't seen yet either).

Slacker,

It's hard for men and women to be just "friends" in that way and for there to be NO physical component to the relationship. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? In my experience, no.

You have no evidence that there was a physical affair. But...there definitely seems to have been an emotional connection.

I'd be skeptical. But, until you have more solid info...you probably can't confront him.

What matters now is how devoted he is to re-building hte marriage and regaining your trust. He should agree to have NO secrets from you at this point. His actions will ultimately tell you if his words are sincere.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: AndrewA ]</small>

Slacker - read the current thread "How long is the withdrawl period" started by Marriage is Forever?. There is some good info and a redirect to an older thread that you might be interested in. I am also wondering why my WW shows no signs of withdrawl. The thread really helped me. Good luck

Hurtin'

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: hurtin' at home ]</small>

I know this my sound like I am in denial, but I do believe that men and women can be friends without the physical stuff. I personally have several male friends that are strictly friends. I understand that. I also understand that their wives could have a hard time believing that so I make every effort to include the wives when making plans. The wives have been to my house for parties, been invited to my wedding, been invited to dinner etc, have even come help us move, and have now starting emailing me directly. I try to hide nothing so there is nothing to suspect from their wives or my husband. I explained this to my husband and I think maybe he finally gets it.

I just fear that this is all a show and he has just found another way to talk to her. I am really prepared to move on with my life if that is the case. But I find myself reluctant to make plans. My wh wants to make plans to go away for some time around christmas and when he graduates in Feb. He wants to plan vacations now and I am wondering in the back of my head if we will be together. How do you move on without the fear?

Slacker...these male friends of yours...does your husband know about them? Do you spend lots of alone time with them? ]

That's the dynamic that is off here. This was a "secret" friendship.

Andrew,

You have hit. Yes my husband knows and has met most of my male friends. I met most of them through work and if I socialize with them it is almost always as a group or with spouses. Never a secret.

He had no bond with this woman (no common work or friends) just started calling her out of the blue. And could not confide in me that he was talking to her. He claims that she asked to meet me but he would not let that happen. Says he did not think I would understand. Which he is right I do not. He has seen time and time again what getting involved with women that you meet from his job has done to his friends. From rape accusations to divorce. He should have known better. He says he thought it was all innocent but her vm really scared him into realizing she felt there was more to it. I can't believe he could be that stupid and naive, could he?

Slacker,

I'd say this is a very dubious story.

A couple of questions:

1.) How did he meet this woman in the first place?

2.) What did her VM say?

"Secret" friendships like this are often more than they seem. It's how my wife's affair started: she talked to a man she believed to be "safe" - just friends - but it grew into something more.

he is a police officer, she had a restraining order against her husband, he arrested her husband. He claims she gave him her number and asked him to call and make sure her husband left her alone. he called he claimed just to check in, but then he says she got his cell from caller id and started calling him, and so on. It escalated to over 200 phone calls a month and him stopping to see her before he came home to me on the weekends (he just admitted this this weekend).

I do not believe that they were just friends. Which is what makes me believe that he has just found another way to talk to her and this marriage will more than likely end. I wish to h$!! I was wrong though. He swears I have nothing more to worry about and he will prove it to me, but there has been too much crap to blindly have faith.

sorry i left out the voicemail. he used to call her on his way to work. on d-day she left a message telling him they needed to talk (after I called her), and the monday after d-day she called crying and quote "I don't know what to say, if it's over I can accept that but don't you think you should have the decency to call and tell me, You know I am understanding, ok call me". I still get p.o'd just thinking about it.

Slacker,

If nothing else, your husband showed really, really, bad judgment in getting involved with this woman - who was CLEARLY vulnerable. Is it typical for him to follow-up with spouses in a case like this? I've never heard of police officers doing that.

I think there is more to this story...and it seems that you think so, also.

You need more proof. But....mainly what you need is for your H to commit to NO CONTACT, to devote himself to honesty, and to work with you on your marriage.

he does admit to really really bad judgement. Says he was just stressed about the move and she was easy to talk to. As a background, he has quit his job and moved to another state, mainly because I did not like the city. he says he did not really want to move but wanted to make me happy and he did not feel he could talk to me about his feelings because I wanted to move. He admits what he did just made everything ten times worse. Now we have moved and are both unhappy. Anyway, he swears it was just stupidity on his part and nothing physical. He swears to nc, claims he is relieved it is over, and promises to never risk our marriage again. Claims he never realized how close to losing me he came until d day. He has given up the cell phone, is now on my plan, agreed to give up his seperate bank account, given me his email password and let me look through his wallet and truck. He swears he will not hide anything from me again. So if you go by appearances he is giving this marriage his all right now. I am just struggling to believe him.

Slacker,

What would concern me most if I were in your situation is that your husband took advantage of a woman who was clearly vulnerable. To me, that's a huge red flag.

Do I think that my husband exercised bad judgement in calling her, yes. Do i think he is a jerk for lying to me yes. Do i suspect there was something more going on, yes. But no I will not sit back and pretend like she is some vulnerable victim here. I spoke to this woman. She is a manipulative lying homewrecker. She did not give him her number because she was worried about her husband. She did not encourage my h to call her at 5:00 am on his way to training to cry on his shoulder. She wanted him. Was he a fool for either not seeing it or seeing it and not realizing the consequences of his actions absolutely. Did he deliberately take advantage of her, no I cannot accuse him of that if nothing else.