I've been posting under in Just Found Out @ "I need help, been lurking for a while" see that thread for the whole story. Anyway I thought I'd throw in another post/question. A with OM is still going on and I'm going to buy SAA tonight. My question is should I tell WW that I have a PI on the case gathering evidence in case Plan A/B doesn't work and we have to do the big D as part of exposure? Or should I just expose with some facts, pics, OM house address? And not tell her that I have a PI? Any thoughts anyone?
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NO WAY!!

You are to expose her affair to others..not expose yourself to her. Why bother with a PI if you intend to sabotage your own efforts?

Keep your own counsel until you are well into recovery..if you confide at all..I wouldn't.

Let her think that you really are just THAT adept at digging up her secrets.

Noodle

NO!

The question s/b what you are going t/d with the info gathered. Let us know when you want some suggestions.

L.

The only thing I'm doing with the evidence is preparing it incase the M doesn't workout. I have 3 young kids and feel I would be letting them down if I didn't prepare! If the recovery starts and we do the radical honesty and POJA, then I will admit all and burn the evidence! That is the sole reason for the PI, also so I know that the A is still going on because she hasn't admitted the A to her mother (I expose too) or the MC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:
<strong> The only thing I'm doing with the evidence is preparing it incase the M doesn't workout.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this mean you haven't exposed yet at all?

You should be exposing the affair to people influential to your spouse now using whatever facts you do know. This is imperitive in order to have a chance at ending the affair and saving your marriage.

PI facts may be helpful in a divorce legal setting.

DO NOT tell your wife your exposure plans nor any PI plans.

U keep that info safe with you. Right now sharing or plans to share info with a WS is dangerous. They have a way of twisting the best of intentions against the BS and family. Some of the results c/b criminal charges. So be careful.

Consider the P/I as part of your support tool. Not only can it help if the M turns into a D but also if the A ends and the M recovers.

L.

Not that any of us have tried this (cause it's illegal in many states) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> BUT....

Radio Shack sells a telephone recorder that will tape any and all calls made to or called from your home phone.

edited to add,,,opppss,,sorry,,meant this to be posted on your thread about phone help... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Nerlycrzy ]</small>

ABSOLUTELY NOT - She will feel violated and will get better at hiding what she's doing...

My PI and 2 different therapist SAID NO..NEVER...Somethings are better kept a secret...

Okay, thanks, for the input. I have exposed to her mother, that is the only person that has had any direct contact with her. I have also told my pastor and a few close friends of mine. She denies the affair to her mother and the MC. Hence the reason for the need to expose more in order for her to admit the A and hopefully stop it. So your saying don't admit about the PI, only that I know it's going on and have pics right?

Hi All,

Okay update, I'm struggling here and need some suggestions! My WW went out to the clubs again last night, I was there and also the PI's were there. They got some more pics of her dancing with OM. She already knows that I caught her once, and I have exposed other details to her about where she stays the night at. However she is still going out. I know I shouldn't tell her about the PI's but for some reason I feel that if she knew the PI's were there, and there was no place that she could go that they couldn't follow and get pics then she wouldn't go out anymore!!

What do you guys think?

I don't think you can EVER control another person. She is doing this because she wants to. She is fully in the A and the addiction of it. Knowing the PI is there will just make her sneakier.

The point of confrontation is to let her know you are aware of what is going on. The proof eliminates the possibility of her squirming out of it, excusing herself etc.

Then, you lay down your OWN boundaries. You are not willing to live like this--with a third person in your M. Read all you can on this site and decide if you need to or can Plan A at this point. Plan A, however, does not include ignoring or accepting continued contact. You must continue to confront her on this and tell her how much it hurts you and your M. You don't need to explain the source of your information. After this confrontation I think it gets harder to check up on affair partners. They get very tricky.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but for some reason I feel that if she knew the PI's were there, and there was no place that she could go that they couldn't follow and get pics then she wouldn't go out anymore!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That could be true but what if it only helps her to decide to file for separation or divorce? She could then argue that because the marriage is over and that only the paperwork remains to be finalized, she is 'free' to go out and have fun with the OM or anybody she chooses.

Anne: Read all you can on this site and decide if you need to or can Plan A at this point.

Anne, I've read SAA all the way through and have been trying to do Plan A for about 3 weeks now. I know I have to try and stretch out Plan A for at least 6 months. I guess I just have to wait for her to do it herself. Although I'm starting to feel like a doormat. I have exposed the A to everyone I think has some kind of influence over her.

Toomuch: That could be true but what if it only helps her to decide to file for separation or divorce? She could then argue that because the marriage is over and that only the paperwork remains to be finalized, she is 'free' to go out and have fun with the OM or anybody she chooses

I guess thats a possibility, I guess then maybe I have to wait until Plan B before I expose the PI, because then I will have let Plan A run its course.

I just hate feeling like a doormat and the kids suffering along with me. Thanks for the info guys, I'm just having a bad few days...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:

I just hate feeling like a doormat and the kids suffering along with me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why chose to allow yourself to feel like a doormat? Get a life and start doing things that don't involve your W. Do some volunteer work for some worthy cause [you can't beat the feeling you get from helping others less fortunate than you]; play with your kids take them to special places; and start going out yourself and meet new friends or interesting people including women [with boundaries in place of course]. The more you have a life that does not revolve around your WW, the more emotionally stronger you'll become and you'll never feel like a doormat.

Thanks Toomuch,

Yeah I've been doing things with the kids more now that their mom doesn't wake up with them anymore, she sleeps late cuz she's always partying late.

In SAA (as I'm sure you all know) it says that one of the reasons that A's can happen is because the spouses start doing things independently of each other. So since she's already doing that anyway and having the A that means even though I'm trying to do Plan A I should still do things without her?

As a newbie to this, I'm still trying to figure out what I can and can't do while in Plan A.
Thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by native00:

In SAA (as I'm sure you all know) it says that one of the reasons that A's can happen is because the spouses start doing things independently of each other. So since she's already doing that anyway and having the A that means even though I'm trying to do Plan A I should still do things without her?

As a newbie to this, I'm still trying to figure out what I can and can't do while in Plan A.
Thanks!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are correct to point out that SAA does say that Independent lifestyles are one of the causes of affairs. But after an affair is in full swing, many BS let themselves go emotionally, physically and socially to not only their detriment but to the marriage's as well. The most important aspects of Plan A are avoiding love busters and exposing the affair but there is nothing in Plan A that says that you should put your life on hold while your WW is having her jollies with the OM. Meeting new people and making new friends including women [with boudaries of course] is a great way to give you hope that no matter what the outcome of your marriage, not only will you survive the ordeal of her affair but thrive as well. Of course there is the danger of you discovering that you are better of divorcing your WW but that is not necessarily a bad thing especially if she shows no signs of wanting to save and rebuild the marriage.

If she won't do things with you, plan stuff for you and the kids. Ask if she wants to join you. If not, go yourself. You do have to take care of yourself during this time as well. REad, pray, grow in loving yourself and you can respect yourself for being heroic in doing everything to save your M for for yourself, your wife and your kids. That is NOT a doormat. BUT you do need to tell her when you know that there has been contact, how much it hurts you, your M and your kids.

Hello Native00,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have exposed to her mother, that is the only person that has had any direct contact with her. I have also told my pastor and a few close friends of mine.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you expose on his side? Is he married?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My WW went out to the clubs again last night, I was there and also the PI's were there. They got some more pics of her dancing with OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did she know you were there? If she did, and she knows you know about the A and she still danced with him it indicates an astonishing amount of disrespect.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know I have to try and stretch out Plan A for at least 6 months. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SAA says that Harley recommends plan A for 6 mos. as an average. If This is an in your face A with no talk of coming back to the marriage I think it should be shorter. Long enough to let her know you have identified what your contributions to the state of the marriage are and are willing to change them. Once you've done that and included all the exposure, then start getting all your ducks in a row for a strong plan B. If you Plan A too long under the circumstances, you may just throw in the towel too early.

Thanks Everyone...

The OM is a young guy and I haven't confronted him or any of his family, I'm sure he doesn't have a W or anything.

I've been trying to take care of myself and the kids. She saw me last night when I was watching her in the club and she knows that I was following her.

Today before she left for work, I asked her what we were doing the MC for? She said to be healthy. She says it wouldn't be fair to me or the kids to get back together for the kids only. She doesn't know "if she wants to be in a traditional relationship. I have sacrificed so much for this family, and I feel I have missed out on a life that I could have had."

Then she goes on to say that she cares for me and what happens for me but is not in love with me.

I'm going to talk with my pastor tonight and see if he can intervene. I'm guess I have to start planning my Plan B. At this point though I don't see any hope for my M short of a miracle from God.

Thanks all for letting me vent!

"missed out on a life I could have had"

Her life would have been totally different if she had not married and had children but she did. Trying to go back and re-live the life she "thinks" she's missed is fruitless. Sooner or later she'll discover that and for your family's sake I hope it's sooner.

Telling her that the PI is following her is not wise. She saw you there and it didn't make any difference. She's so confused that she can't see the truth right now. After all, do you really want her to come home and be a wife and mother only because you hired a PI? No, of course not. You want her home because she wants to be there.

Three children and the oldest is 5 is quite a daunting task especially for someone who is still in their 20's. How much help were you giving her at home? Do you think the fact that she's not getting up to take care of them and staying out late might be because she's overwhelmed?

More than likely she is seeing friends her age who's only seemingly responsibility if to have fun. She would like that carefree life. The grass is always greener until you get there.

While you've been advised to go out and get your own life, I would advise to look more carefully at your life as it stands. Explore with MC your role in the situation. I remember when my child was a tottler, I craved intelligent conversation and a break. I was lonely and wondered how meaningful my efforts really were. Did poopy diapers and wiping snotty noses really matter in the universe... Three whining children and a husband who might not have been as understanding as maybe he should be coupled with being so young might me explored. I maybe be totally off base here but I remember those days and while I was in my 30's, it was still a struggle. I had lived the typical 20's lifestyle and had that out of my system. I can't begin to imagine how trapped I would have felt if I hadn't because my husband didn't have a clue as to what I was going through and didn't seem to care.