</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by passion1_87:
He is a very jealous person and that would send him over the edge and I fear something very bad would happen. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I always wonder about a woman who knows she has a jealous husband... and she STILL messes around behind his back.... and she still has children with him....

What do you want from this site?

We are pro-marriage... if you are here to find a way to comfortably continue adulterous behavior... forget it... we will not support that.

So, what do you see as your viable choices?

Pep

PS... "WS" means "wandering spouse" ... a polite way to say "infidel".

If you read the info on this site and also others about affairs (other than ones dedicated to keeping A's alive) and the testimonies of those who have been through A's you will notice something VERY strange! Virtually ALL wandering spouses have very, very, very similar stories. It is almost a script. Their marriage had problems--uh, whose doesn't--they didn't talk directly to their spouse about it and INSIST that the problems be solved FIRST, before they began a relationship outside their M. The WS slowly starts giving their all to the affair partner while taking it away from their spouse and all the while re-writing history to the tune of "We shouldn't have gotten M, I was never really in love" etc. All rationalizations.

I could go on and on. The affair is a fantasy world that becomes addicitive. It is like a perpetual state of romantic love because none of the every day realities of life intervene. It is exciting, stolen time, passionate because you don't have to clean up after them or rely on them to pay bills or whatever goes with family life and REALITY! Did you know that less than 2% of relationships that begin as an A last?

You are currently in the fog, and DEEP.

You owe it to yourself, your family and the OM to read up on this area. Read this site, Surviving An Affair and also Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass so that you understand the dynamics of your situation.

As Dr. Phil says, you need to earn your way out of your M and you are FAR, far, from that. By giving all your love and attention etc. to the OM you are guaranteeing that your M won't work. REad, read, read the posts of some FORMER wandering spouses on here for their perspectives and experience AND those of us Betrayed Spouses so you will come to true consciousness of what you are doing to your H, your kids and yourself in your life of dishonesty.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by passion1_87:
Things with this other man are different than most other couples..I know you are all saying "yeah right" but we started as friends and I honestly can say he is everything i have always wanted in a man, but unfortunately we met a year too late.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah right.

Do you know how many times we've heard this come out of a WS's mouth? We're different, we're soul mates, we LOVE each other. Trust me, there is nothing special or unique about your sitch or your R with this man.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just love him so much there really arent enough words too express it, when I see him my face light up and so does his and it isnt a physical thing, it is way deeper than that, I truly believe he is my soul mate </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's called a fantasy.

Do you honestly think that if you were to be married to this man that you would not end up exactly as you have now? You are in an A that is forbidden, exciting, with no responsibilities, worries, giving each other the "best" side of one another. How can that possibly compete with bills, kids, homework, chores, cleaning, etc?? Then factor in the real possibility that if he can cheat WITH you, he can cheat ON you, too- leads to an R with very little hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
...I do not want to hurt my kids cause I am the sole provider with them, my husband basically does nothing with them or for them..I am married but like a single parent..I often wonder what life would have been like for me if I didnt get married..I dont wish my kids away by any means they are my life but I really want the love that I deserve and it just isnt with my husband, we have tried to talk about things but I guess after all of the bad things that have happened between us I just cant get past it and I honestly can say that I was never truly IN LOVE with him..I loved him but not IN LOVE...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are re-writing history so that you can justify your behaviour and lessen the guilt you will eventually feel. Of course you are going to say that you never loved him- what kind of horrible person would cheat on someone they love? You would not be able to live with the guilt.

I'm sure that you did not have a gun held up to your head when you married your H. I'm sure at one point you must have loved him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The other thing that is very weird is that if I think of him real hard the phone will ring and it will be him or if I am thinking of him a song that he would play for me would come on the radio..little things like that as stupid as it may sound..to me our signs of fate! Maybe I am crazy but it was like we were meant to keep coming back to each other.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is truly creative fog-talk at its best!

albw

I am going top issue an apology for my tone in the post above. I have very very strong feelings about this and I think that post triggered something in me. I want to aplologize for the tone of my post. I still stand behind the premise that MARRIAGES SHOULD NOT STAY TOGETHER FOR THE SOLE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN. People here define "stable" as not hacing abuse and that in my mind is pathetic. Children are soo much samrter than we as adults want to give them credit for. They know the truth. We sure did as kids in my family.

I agree with anne. Passion, you are almost reading word for word from a script for WS (wayward spouses).

I also agree that you have to earn your way out of a marriage. It takes work. If you don't put in the effort you will have many regrets later.

If you do work hard, and it doesn't work, then you know it wasn't meant to be and no regrets.

But, keep in mind. What you are doing now is avoiding work. You need to put some effort (and your H too) into this Marriage.

Lemonman,
I get what you are saying about divorce. BUT--Steve Harley always used to say to us: wouldn't the ideal to be in love with the parent of your child? If that is possible, don't you owe yourself and your child to try for that?

I think that is what we are talking about here--making the very best effort to work on the M to get to that point. I can tell you that I would divorce my H if he cheated again, because after all the hard work and his witnessing my pain if he could do it all again, there is no hope. AND I would like my D to grow up knowing that you don't tolerate that kind of treatment from your spouse.

Also, you point out the atmosphere in your childhood home--that is EXACTLY the type of M that if not worked on should end in divorce. There is research that says that kids are ok if there isn't fighting and abuse. So the parents aren't blissfully, passionately in love--the kids are ok with that and want their parents together.

I think each situation is different, but I truly believe that if two people desire it enough and can get emotionally healthy enough to work on themselves and the M, there is every opportunity for the worst marriage to be saved, improved and last.

Just my $.02. BTW, sorry you grew up in such a situation. I wonder how these childhood wounds you carry have leant themselves to your inability to reunite with your W? Have you read "Getting the Love You Want?" There is a discussion on cgar's thread on the Recovery board. VERY interesting!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Things with this other man are different than most other couples..I know you are all saying "yeah right" but we started as friends and I honestly can say he is everything i have always wanted in a man, but unfortunately we met a year too late.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, you've always wanted an adulterous liar and cheater? Doesn't sound like too good of a catch to me. Pretty sad that this is what you consider a perfect man to look like.

Of course things are so perfect with this man. Who has to take care of you when you are sick, worry about paying the bills, dealing with problem children - not OM. You only have the good stuff with him, none of the real life issues to deal with. That is why everyone is telling you this is a fantasy relationship.

Lemonman,

I looked for about 15 seconds.. so, I don't think you've really tried to educate yourself in any fashion... more like, your own childhood sucked, (welcome to the club) ... so your opinion is fact.

http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/famlife/divorce/effects.htm

That should simplify it for you.. it flat outs states, children in broken homes do 'worse' in general, in many facets of life.

Now, that is oversimplifying things...of course, certain things are just overlooked in a blanket statement like that. Some people you wish would divorice...but, in those cases, I think you can also just look at them and say, quit being so selfish, and grow up. That usually will solve most marriage problems that I hear about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kids are better off with a mom and dad as long as there is no abuse in the home-period. OK-now where did I read it-Dr Dobson? Dr Laura-OK I'll see if I can find it.

Wow! Well I didnt come on here to upset anyone, I am trying to lump the last 10 years into these posts..My husband does work but he is one that likes to do things all for himself and I am not suppose to do anything except stay home and take care of the kids..I work two jobs and shuffle my kids around all week long I have very little time to myself and do not expect anyone to feel sorry for me..I married my husband when I was very young and as I said in the beginning I think it was all of the excitment of getting married that I really didnt look at the big picture..I am 34 years old now and I guess things have changed for me as far as the way I see life. I am not looking for an easy way out of my marriage what I am looking for is what to do when you have tried counseling and talking and all of those things with your spouse and things may be good for about a month and then they go right back to the way they were before...Where everything is about him and not me or his kids..His own parents even told me not to marry their son..We do not argue all the time it is only once in a while...We basically dont talk much or do much together..He never wants to do anything outside of the house and it gets depressing..As far as this other man he didnt ruin my relationship that was rocky before he came back into the picture I am just confused about the feelings I am having right now! Again I am sorry if I offended anyone I am really not a bad person just a lonely one!

This is how history is re-written. Never loved him....terrible marraiges...awful wife...she's mean to the kids...she's mean to her poor dear H....

You could copy these words straight out of Harley's book...doesn't anyone see the irony. Each A is soooooo different from everyone else's A. To the WS their A is real love and the wayward partners are 'meant to be together'.

I agree with Lemonman you are hurting your children by staying with your H if you say there is no love there. Get out and save them the pain of what you are doing.

But if you want to give your marriage a chance...and I would think you do considering you are here and the name of the site is MARRIAGEBUILDERS.COM...you wouldn't come here if you just wanted to announce to the world your proof of a need for a D, right? Wouldn't make sense.

You came here because you love your H and you love your children and you do not want to hurt them more then you already have. Even if your H doesn't know about the A he has an idea that you are withdrawn from him and he probably blames himself for that.

Give you marriage a chance. That chance starts with you ending this A and exposing this to your H.

Good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by passion1_87:
I am not looking for an easy way out of my marriage what I am looking for is what to do when you have tried counseling and talking and all of those things with your spouse and things may be good for about a month and then they go right back to the way they were before</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">None of that will improve you M while OM is still in the picture! OM is meeting all of your needs, and that is stopping your very own H to be able to meet them for you.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We do not argue all the time it is only once in a while...We basically dont talk much or do much together..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you don't! You are giving all of your extra time, energy and emotion to your OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again I am sorry if I offended anyone I am really not a bad person just a lonely one! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was lonely in my marriage, too. I did not go outside of my M to fix that- I told my H I was lonely!!! Have you told your H this?

albw

So, Passion...do you plan to tell your husband about this at some point, or are you and the OM simply going to disappear in an ether of love one night?

ANd if you do tell him and he says he wants to work on the marriage and make things better...what will you say?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RookKev:
<strong> Lemonman,

I looked for about 15 seconds.. so, I don't think you've really tried to educate yourself in any fashion... more like, your own childhood sucked, (welcome to the club) ... so your opinion is fact.

http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/famlife/divorce/effects.htm

That should simplify it for you.. it flat outs states, children in broken homes do 'worse' in general, in many facets of life.

Now, that is oversimplifying things...of course, certain things are just overlooked in a blanket statement like that. Some people you wish would divorice...but, in those cases, I think you can also just look at them and say, quit being so selfish, and grow up. That usually will solve most marriage problems that I hear about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rookkev:

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you about this. Yes, my OPINION OF WHAT I WENT THROUGH IS FACT. Quite honestly I don't really give a rat's ***what you think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That study you posted should be qualified with this: Despite this general finding across many studies, there are important qualifications of these findings. Overall, the children are more alike than different. Amato (1994) reminds us that average differences do not mean that all children in divorced families are worse off than all children in intact families. In Figure 1 (p. 145) in THE FUTURE OF CHILDREN (1994) Amato presents an illustration of how much the children in both groups overlap. Thus, while there are average differences there are more similarities than differences.


We can all AGREE to DISAGREE then. I can only speak from MY own experiences......In MY LIFE, we lived in a big house and had all the "material" things kids want. My parents were not abusive to us, they just didn't love each other, we saw that. They sure tried for our sakes but you can't fake "love" and we all "Knew" why they were together.

Hey Rookkev: IF YOUR WIFE BETRAYS YOU YET AGAIN!!!!(and I am sure that I can dredge up some study showing that cheaters are likely to cheat again) will you stay married for your childrens sake? DOn't give me any BS studies, I want to know what you would do???? when/if this happens again.

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

I apologize for upsetting anyone I came this site for some other opinions and I sure did get them...I am sorry if what I wrote was text book drama but that is just me being honest about the way that I feel and as far as the other man is concerned you all act like I see this man everyday we only Speak on the phone once every couple of weeks there is no relationship and I do not run off with him every chance I get..He is just someone that I wish I had in my life and I am not going to apologize for that..Life is what it is and I made my choices and I realize that I am just trying to figure out why I am flooded with so many emotions...I have to go home now and I will check in with everyone tomorrow. Have a good nite and thank you!

Here is my take on your situation, and I may be off track but...

You were a young woman in a PA with her boss. At 23 or so you knew he wouldn't leave wife/son and you wanted more than occassional relationship. So, you had a guy that was that type of guy who wanted to marry you and have a family. Great, didn't matter then if you were in love with him. Nope, married him while you were in love with someone else (someone you knew you could not have). This may have also been to try to force MM to leave his wife for you - or maybe revenge against him because he wouldn't.

Your marriage never worked, because you never tried to make it work, you were still and always pining away for the MM.

Frankly, I'm sure your Husband has always felt you didn't really love him - which is maybe why he hasn't any desire to do things with you or provide for you ......you never tried to meet his needs and probably never opened yourself up to having yours met by him.

Question #1. Whats changed now. Did OM finally leave his wife? Promises he now will? Or maybe you've done the marriage thing, have your kids, and now you've gotten that out of your system?

Question #2. Did you ever have NC with the OM during the course of your marriage and for how long? when was the last time you were physical with OM?

Passion,

Your message line said "please help." What kind oif help did you want? Did you want people to tell you that what you feel - and what you are DOING - is all right? Sorry...but you're not likely to find a lot of affirmation here.

I'll ask you again: if your husband says that he wants to work on the marriage and make things better, what will you say? Are you willing to give up the OM under any circumstnaces?

Andrew...

If it were to happen again, I would probably divorice her... given the fact that I know now, it isn't from me, or lack of effort. In her affair, I accept some of the burden in the way I was running our marriage and household. Don't misinterpret that into me accepting responsibility for the affair, just the place I led my family and my wife. I know now that I am leading our household right, so, it would be completely on her, and I would have to move forwards. But, you know what...we love each other. And our kids know we love each other...and even then, I would love her as I was divoricing her. Love just ain't enough. It's when people stop being selfish, and childish, that things really change. That is what your children notice.

I was in that abusive home, that split home..you name it, I was hit with it...and that not ok. I would agree, sometimes, it's best to divorice... I'm not making a general statement about people staying together at all costs, I'm actually not defending either side... you wanted a study, I gave you one done in a college, so hopefully without a religious slant to it.

And, I bet you could provide a very interesting study on repeat offenders. It's hard not to see how it would happen again and again, especially given the way many BS abuse their FWS with the affair.

Andrew... really, I don't have an issue with ya. I promise. I just saw that post and I was like well, I've heard of those reports too, so I will find one. (Even though I seem to be coming at you in a negative fashion over and over, I see that too, so I will try to chill!)

Rook,

I think your post should have been aimed at Lemonman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AndrewA:
<strong> Rook,

I think your post should have been aimed at Lemonman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes Andrew , I think that was directed at me indeed. Thanks for the honesty in your repsonse Rookkev. I was just curious about what you would do. There isn't really any best solution regarding divorce and children. SO I am gonna leave it at that.