Ok, it was a rough 24 hours starting at 11:00 pm yesterday. Had a serious conversation with wife and was unable to start a Plan A that was working, Around 2:00 am huge fight broke out and last till roughly 3:30 am went to sleep woke up and started talking to ww and ww admited to two other occassions where she had sex with OM, I lost my cool even though I knew of these enounters. I left for work leaving her crying and swearing that it was over between them and that she woulkd never have contact with him again, NC letter has been written but not approved or signed. I feel I did a few LB's because I did not make her feel safe, I know I set us back, she say's A is over but does not love me or want the marriage and that she is still planning on moving out in June.

Got home at 11:00 am and had another small tiff with ww about her encounters and found out she had been talking to OM almost every day on the phone for the past month or so. Last Sex was two weeks ago when she walked out on me and children for atotal of 18 hours. As of right now, ww is acting lovey dovey but tells me not to read more into it, I told her sorry for LB's and that I love her and find her to be the most attractive woman I could ever love, Wife hugged me and gave me a kiss.

Is it possible for my ww to fall back in love with again, even though she says she does not love me and does not want to be with me and do I trust her that A is over for good this time?

I truly need help with a Plan A, Because I do not think I'm even close. I have not had contact with OM for about three months, should I make contact again and ask him to back off, he is not married and lives only five miles from us. WW contacts via phone, and drives over or he meets her.

WW swears that she is not going to make contact because of the hurt she has caused me and the children.


Michael~~
BS - 36
D-Day 6-1-04
ww - 34
married 11 yrs on Feb 12
three children 12, 10 and 5

Mac

If you are going to "endear" yourself to your WW, you are NOT going to do it with Love Busters.

Stop and think. The OM is probably attentive, kind, caring, gives her affection and attention, and you can't hold your temper. A major Love Buster is Angry Outbursts

Time to get control of your emotions. ALWAYS STAY CALM, and measure carefully those words you let slip through your lips.

Love, caring kindness, understanding, is all Plan A. Every, and I do mean EVERY Love Buster, makes you look BAD and the OM good.

Have you read SAA yet, or are you going to save your marriage "your way"?

This is serious stuff you are messing with here. You cannot just "feel" your way through it, and use your instincts. Instincts are useless to you now. Knowledge is everything.

Get on board with Marriage Builders, and you'll start making strides forward, not backward.

You have lots of help, right here on the forums.

Best wishes,
SD

I sit here in tears wondering what I can do to save my marriage and keep the OM from taking my ww away from me. All I have going for me is that she is willing to stay in the home till June. I have not exposed the affair to her family and friends yet and I think it would be useless to do to OM because he is not married and has no kids. I had to leave work early yesterday because I got so sick I threw up and could not control my emotions over the hurt I feel. My children are deeply impacted by all of this and have even asked ww to please stop doing this to them and me. She has sworn that she will not make any contact with OM but I feel I don't believe her. I don't think she can do it on her own, We have told her how much we love her and that we will help her through this but she cliams it is something she needs to do on her own. They have had sex 3 times that she admits to, and that since the last time it has only been emional contact over the ohone or at her work parking lot for five or ten minute visits. I'm such a mess....

Help, WW is crying over missing OM is this natural? She keeps telling me she does not love me but wants to end this A.. She is tired of the hurt she has caused me and the children. How mant times should I allow contact while in plan A... I told her that if she is going to do this and really have NC that she has to understand that I will move us into plan B and take the kids and move out for a short time. She says she does not want me or the kids to move out...She cries a lot and I feel bad, is that normal? She seems so tired and angry at times..I have implemented the Love Diet, I feed her love and support three times a day for five minutes...

Michael

Yes, it's normal. She is/was addicted. Withdrawal is tough. Ever tried to quit smoking?

Now it's time to stand up and be the most gentle and caring man in the world.

Tell her you are sorry she's in such pain. She may even want to be held. Approach this gingerly.

Bring her hot tea/favorite beverage/no alcohol. Offer her a Kleenex, or wipe away her tears.

Soft and gentle. Offer to stay home with her tommorrow from work and comfort her.

Don't tell her "I love you", but assure her you are there to care for her.

Let her cry. She's grieving now, and it has to be done.

It's a totally awkward time, but I've been there, and know it can be done.

Kind, gentle, sweet, loving, thoughtful, caring.

If you go out, bring her her favorite ice cream or malt or candy bar. Do those little things for her ONLY YOU COULD KNOW TO DO, because you love her.

If sadness overwhelms you, let it show. It is not against the law to cry in her presence, at this time. She needs to KNOW your sadness.

No anger, disrespectful judgements, or other LoveBuster's, and NO disrespectful remarks towards the OM. They'll blow up in your face.

Patience, care and love...

Your actions speak volumes now, your words may never be remembered.

best wishes
SD

Thank you and I will do as you told, I have been very supportive the past 36 hours, She has made a serious commitment on the nc letter and she also wants to write a letter to friends and family, is that wise for her to do?

Michael, exposure is good, and exposure done by voluntarily by a WS is... well... better than good. It's a little miraculous.

Another piece of advice for you. If you feel angry, or unloved - and you will - get away from your W. Not in a dramatic way. Just calmly hit the road. Go to another room, or go into the chilly NY air for a walk. Calmly.

You're following your instincts a little too much. Your instincts are rotten right now.

Don't expect her to be worth a damn for a while. She's in withdrawal. If she makes contact with OM, consider withdrawal to be starting over from scratch again. But don't get angry about it. Just deal with it.

Plan A... have you read Ark's thread yet?

You must recognize your own bad habits, and go on a crash course to learn to break them. It sounds like, for you, the old angry outburst is tough to avoid. But you must.

If you get this together, by the time June 2005 rolls around, everything will be changed, and the plans your wife is making right now will be a distant memory.

Especially if she honestly stops contact with OM.

GC

Graycloud,

Thank you for all of your advice, I am very angry over all of this and it just gets to me more when I look at my children and they won't even look there mother in the eye because of what she has done to all of us. My 12 yr Daughter sat down with her mother last night and told her that she was very angry with her mom and that it was going to take some time and that she was willing to help mom through this if it's really what WW wanted. My wife tried telling Daughter that she was sorry but that she was human and she was allowed to make mistakes and that she very much regretted this one, My daughter in response told my ww : Your my mom and thats my dad and in my eye's your not human, Your my guide in life. I was deeply touched when my daughter used such deep and meaniful words, I guess I learned a good lesson from my daughter as well. We all should listen to our children more often. I don't know how to find that link you were talking about. I also wanted to thank you for sending out that book, I have not recieved it yet, hopefully today. I will follow your advice and go for those VERY CHILLY walks.

Michael, here's the link to ark's thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=029805#000005

Book's on the way.

GC

I want to tell all of you a little story.

There was this BS that was having a very difficult time saving his M and getting together a great Plan A..All durring this short time ww was not only in the fog but at time, I think smoking it... I am a BS who was just getting back on his feet working when his world blew up and the A was confirmed by overwelming evidence and later WW admittance. Many of you suggested books for me to read and I even put up a small and humble post asking for some of you with extra books to please consider sending them to me and I would with all my heart return these books when I finished them. I am still in no finacial situation to even get any of these books and my local library does not carry any of these books. Then along came this awesome person name greycloud who sent me a post telling me he would send me a book, and today that book arrived with a card telling me to basically have faith and patience. I just can't stress enough that when I read that card and held that book, I felt like it was my own personal lifeboat and that I now had my head out of the water and couyld really take stock of my situation..

GreyCloud,

Your card and your words brought tears of hope, faith and love to this once broken heart. I hope god repays you with your kindness 100 fold and then some. My M and my hope are back on track. I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart..

((((graycloud))))
You are a wonderful person.

mschluter,
Listen to what the others are saying - memorize LBs and avoid them as if your very life depended on it. Get in the habit of thinking and reviewing everything before it comes out of your mouth.

Right now your WW is looking for reasons to justify leaving you. Don't give her any. When your consistent actions over weeks and months don't support her plans, you will see things turn around.

Thanks to all of you..I now have hope and at least one paddle in the water..

Michael, you're welcome. That was real nice, what you wrote there. You too turtlehead - glad to have you back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll send some more pieces of the library when I get them from car4love.

GC

GreyCloud,

Thank you and I was only speaking the truth. I will return NOT JUST FRIENDS the minute I have finished it, is this a book the ww should read also if she has an interest?

Michael, I think you should leave the education to yourself for now. Use this information to understand her and to manage yourself for now. I'd even be discreet about showing it to her. I don't know if it needs to be a secret necessarily, but she's probably not ready for all that information just yet.

GC

Sounds good. I have already started NOT JUST FRIENDS and am on my second cup of coffee. Wife came home and asked for a hug from me. We are now going on day four of no contact and she seems to be dealing with it a little better. I still think she is in the fog and is not being 100% with me. She claims she wants to write a letter that she can send and give to all of her friends and family and co-workers that will tell the tale of her A and how she is sorry for what she has done to me ( BS ) and the children and that she needs for everyone to help her end this affair. Do you think she should do this, still no NC letter though. I get the feeling she is trying to find a new way to contact OM... How do you expose an OM that has no W no kids.....How do you put this A in the air for him that will end it on his part?

Ok wife is back to being in the fog, She is telling me she is only here for the kids and wants to leave. she is on day 4 of nc and I think it is getting to her. what do I do..help....

Keep things light, and avoid R talks right now. She's in withdrawal, and it can be very difficult for them, and therefore for you.

Stay in Plan A with a vengence right now. Do anything you can think of to fill her Love Bank. If you go out, bring her something she loves, or likes a lot, smoothie, candy bar, malt, flowers, nothing flashy/expensive, but simple and thoughtful.

If she gets surly, don your fog resistant armor, and babble back when she speaks from fogland.

Remember, she's fragile right now, debating whether she's ready to give up the "fantasy" or not. She knows the correct choice, but doesn't know if she has the strength and resolve to make it.

Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Don't get tricked into thinking a few positive things mean you are on the "home run" path. There'll be wavering and doubt.

Reassure her you'll be there for her, your love is there for her, and comfort her in any way you can.

Tricky business, but you'll be patting yourself on the back in 3 months.

Best wishes,
SD

Michael...

This is a bad time, I know. I was there. My W was only able to go two weeks, then she got back in touch with OM. Another two weeks, and she was gone.

Something to know right now, and it's tough to hear: you are not in control of her. If she can't handle withdrawal, then no matter how perfect you are, she may still run.

Now, another thing. Take what you can get. If she says that she's just here "for the kids", accept that. When people enter into affairs, they have chosen to make decisions based on their emotions. When you're dealing with somebody in that frame of mind, then if they find a rational reason to end their affair, don't agonize over which reason it is. Just take advantage of her presence, no matter what her reasons are. Consider yourself lucky she sees a reason to stay. It means her intellect is still working on some level. And it gives you a chance to gently and humbly invite her back into your heart.

You're going to have some outrageous ups and downs in the days ahead. Be prepared to feel rejected, uncertain, and filled with doubt and horror. Don't be disappointed when she cannot open her heart to you. She had an affair, and as Dr. Glass writes, many women, in order to open their heart to OM, find that they must first close it to their husband.

It's a fact of life right now, and you must be strong enough to expect NOTHING from her. If you wake up alone at 5 A.M. and find her crying alone on the couch, accept that she is mourning the loss of OM. It has to happen. And all you can do is gently reassure her that she will get through it. But to do it right, you must understand that she may be imagining spending the rest of her life with OM, and may be wondering to herself, how can I go through the rest of my life having given up OM? That's how she may be thinking right now. She may be imagining herself 20 years from now, still missing OM, and thinking how will I have a happy life if I'm forever longing for OM?

It's crazy, it's unrealistic and adolescent, and it is also how WS in romantic affairs think.

Best of luck, my good man.

GC

GC,

I don't know why but I keep doing everything wrong. WW say's that right now she is just here for the kids and not for me to get my hopes up. One minute she wants to end the A and the next she is getting angry and upset over ending it. I just don't know what to do anymore. I have done nothing but commit LB's the last two day's. Everytime she lashes out at me, I bite back with pain and hurt from what she has done. When I try to feed her emotional needs she laughs at me or tells me I'm not the one she needs to hold her right now. Last night we were up till way past 5 am fighting and arguing. I told her if she is having an OM day all she needs to do is tell me and I will support her.

I can't tell any of you how much I love my wife, I have been down that dark road in the past where I did not show her how much she meant to me, I never told her how pretty she was, I never told her that I saw her as an equal. All I really ever did was take for granted she would alway's be here for me and the kids. This is ww's second affair with the same OM the last time was ten years ago and it lasted only a month because we were just married. WW seems so upset and so sad, and yet she does not talk to me. I know i'm going through the clingy stage and I can't seem to break it. I don't eat, sleep or do anything anymore. All I do is sit and wonder what I could have done to prevent this affair in the first place. My 12 yr old daughter had a major breakdown today and she cried and begged her mother to stop hurting her ( Seeing OM ) WW did not even shed a tear over daughters request or daughters pain. I look at myself in the mirror and hate what I have become and what I'm letting her do to me. It's like every other day she attacks me with hateful words and gestures, always telling me to go F*** myself , telling me that she wishes I was dead.

The affair has gotten to the point where my WW is being investigated by child protective services because my kids have been talking to there school counselors about the hurt they are going through and how she has attacked me on a few occassions when she has been confronted with her lie's. My wife is being charged with Child endangerment, Child abandenment, and domestic violence in front of a child. If she is founded on any of these charges it could lead up to her losing parental rights to the children. she could even lose her job because she works with children on a daily basis.

I know she understands that it was her choice to end this A because of what it was doing to all of us, The Child protective services lady that showed up to talk with ww and me and the kids made it very clear that her A was causing serious damage to the children and could result in charges being brought against ww. I of course am doing everything I can from lying to CPS to denying everything on my ww's behalf. I'm working at a new job and had to leave early everyday because of all the stress this A is putting me through. On monday of this week I broke down at my job and could not stop crying and actually became physically sick on the floor.

WW has good days and has bad days...it seems lately her bad days turn my good days into bad days and we fight and I drop LB's all over the place. I'm just at a loss. I don't think my Plan A is working. She at one point wanted to be the one to write a general letter to all of her friends and family telling of her A and asking for there support now she does not want to do that or write a NC letter to OM...

I feel like i'm sliding into a very deep abys and I can't breathe.