I have just remembered something..that I had not thought of in a very long time..that I think is worthy of consideration, ironically..the person to bring it to the front of my menory was my FWH.

Here it is..

I had been operating under the premise that FWHs actions were a first time/one time deal..but if I look waaaaay back into the history of his dating..I see that it isn't so.

He has had 2 relationships besides ours..and BOTH of those involved cheating.

One..he claimed to have been cheated ON [but I really don't KNOW that this is true, do I?}

The other..HE was the secret OM [with all of the excuses you would expect..boyfriend is abusive etc etc..even then I dismissed it as a steamy pile of BS]..I did not put much relevance on it because 1) I had no experience with these sorts of patterns and 2) It had occured YEARS before we even met..which would indicate that he was pretty dawgone young..I usually dismiss the missteps of youth as being just that, unless they carry over into adulthood.

And it would seem that they have.

He has consistently been unhappy that "I don't need anything" and this is true. I don't NEED anything from him..I just wanted the pleasure of his company. His value to me is based purely in my desire to have him as my lover and companion..not because he has got something that I want..or can provide something that I can not. I don't need to be saved, I just want to be loved and to share my life with someone.

He has very much wanted to be the hero..and this troubles me more that I can say. I see it as an open door that OW #2 can sashay right through any old time.

I am disturbed by the implications here. I fear that he has been faithfull right up until he spent time in the military because up until that time he was following MY trajectory.

I do not participate in any activity that even COULD lead to an affair..so while he stayed my course he was relatively safe.

The instant he was in a different environment he almost immediately began to fail.

Wow.

This does not bode well for the future friends and neighbors. Not well at all.

I sit here nearly floored..almost speechless..ok..admittedly I AM doing a lot of talking for being speechless..but relatively..you know..for ME this is pretty speechless <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Perhaps thoughtless is a better word..I honestly am at a loss as to what the next step might be. I can not be his whole world forever..that isn't healthy [as I have told him more than once]

I think there is a MUCH bigger monster under Hs bed..maybe bigger than me.

There was something about FIMs story that has consistently hit just a skosh too close to home..raised my level of anxiety..and I think I just stumbled into it.

What if the A wasn't the abberation..what if his years of productiveness were?

Running around in a big circle,

Noodle

Noodle,

You've done a good job of summing up a lot of what runs through my mind.

I've never doubted WH's fidelity when he's with me. Even when he traveled a lot for work, I never questioned it.

But every time he's been gone for any serious amount of time, he has been unfaithful. He's never wanted to leave before, but nevertheless he has betrayed me.

I've realized it IS a character issue. He loves who he is with. He dallies with the one he has. What is that worth?

NOTHING.

But, I do believe people can change. I just doubt my WH is one of them.

That's MY situation though.

There may be some big monsters under the bed, but I truly believe that by dealing with them you and your H can avoid this type of situation in the future.

We never fully addressed it. We got through and moved on. But we never looked at underlying issues or problems that led to the behaviour.

Don't just do enough to save the marriage. Do everything for you and for your husband AND for the marriage.

Deal with the monster. You have acknowledged there may be one. I truly believe THAT is most of the battle and a huge step towards victory.

Yes, FIM..

I'm glad that you weren't offended..because I have felt for a long time..just picking up a vibe shall we say..that your H was..let's say not on the road home..and it disturbed me truly..and I think that it is because I see a potential for that very thing to happen to me. That one of them will just get her hooks into him..fill some need that I am incapable of filling completely..my H does love the fantasy so.

It is also disturbing that he does not look on his OMness with regret. Not at all. He still carries the fantasy in his heart and does not see the relationship for what it was.

Not after 8 years of marriage and not even after the ONS. Not after MC and not after IC. He still believes that if you have to try it's fake.

I'm scared. I love him, but I'm scared. I don't know if I can take this risk over and over every day for the rest of my life. Something has to change.. something internal. I need him to grow a super-ego <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . It's hard for me to believe that he is truly without one..but, you know..he really seems to be. Mine is overdeveloped..if that can occur being underdeveloped shouldn't be impossible.

What to do with someone who really seems to live in the moment to an astonishing degree..as if all previous moments did not exist? I can not control his moments..apparently he can't either [hyperventilates]

Ack! Ideas?

Noodle

Noodle (and FIM for that matter too):

If you look at my signature line, you will see that my now exH had/has some pretty big monsters under his bed too. I look at these monsters, even now, and know in my head and heart that these were not monsters of my making that I helped to create, but monsters that are part of his innate character. As an example, my exH was/is bipolar rapid cycling. In his manic phases, he rages; in his depressive phases he feels like everyone abandons him. I did not "create" this monster, but it certainly affected me, and it DEFINITELY affected our marriage. Due in part to bipolar sexual inhibitions during mania, and due in part to Sex/Love Addiction, my exH had several affairs that he found quite acceptable. I did not "create" that monster either!

My point here is that for some reason, sometimes our spouses either have disorders, genetics, upbringings or SOMETHING that leaves a BIG monster under their bed. I personally wrestled with this for a long time (3 years) because I wasn't sure if I had the strength of character and the moral fortitude to stay in a marriage that was so damaged at the foundational level. I mean, the Harley Concepts mean little or nothing if the person has a mental disorder that overrides sexual morals!!!!!

So I wrestled and wrestled. I held myself to the highest standard of my vows: "For better, for worse; ... in sickness, and in health." Well this was SICKNESS!! I vowed to be with one man until I died even if he was sick (and he was). Between you and I and whoever else is reading, I would have stayed with him too...

...but what I discovered was that he was not willing to work on his own monsters. It was too scary for him to work on his monsters, so he avoided them, denied them, and blamed them on me. If my exH had recognized his monsters and named them--if he had made an effort to medication or go to counseling, I would have stayed in the marriage. Instead, he chose not to take personal responsibility for his own issues, and thus, the marriage ended.

I can not predict if your H's will return to the marriage or not, but if they do indeed have the monsters under their beds that you suspect and think you see...I would recommend the Personal Responsibility Test. If they are not willing to see their monster, then the marriage may not have a chance for survival--but if they ARE willing to see that the monster is THEIR OWN and work on it, then the marriage does have a good chance for survival.

I have so say, though, I'm sad for you two. I've been where you are and it's a scary, lonely place. ((((Noodles))) ((((FIM))))


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Yes, FIM..

I'm glad that you weren't offended..because I have felt for a long time..just picking up a vibe shall we say..that your H was..let's say not on the road home..and it disturbed me truly..and I think that it is because I see a potential for that very thing to happen to me. That one of them will just get her hooks into him..fill some need that I am incapable of filling completely..my H does love the fantasy so.

It is also disturbing that he does not look on his OMness with regret. Not at all. He still carries the fantasy in his heart and does not see the relationship for what it was.

Not after 8 years of marriage and not even after the ONS. Not after MC and not after IC. He still believes that if you have to try it's fake.

I'm scared. I love him, but I'm scared. I don't know if I can take this risk over and over every day for the rest of my life. Something has to change.. something internal. I need him to grow a super-ego <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . It's hard for me to believe that he is truly without one..but, you know..he really seems to be. Mine is overdeveloped..if that can occur being underdeveloped shouldn't be impossible.

What to do with someone who really seems to live in the moment to an astonishing degree..as if all previous moments did not exist? I can not control his moments..apparently he can't either [hyperventilates]

Ack! Ideas?

Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, Noodle.

I see a few possibilities for you. Trust is not one of them.

You can "pop his bubble' with a strong dose of reality. Unfortunately, to intentionally start such a volatile reaction directly places your marriage at risk.

It is also possible to impart to him a strong sense of 'direction' for those times he is away. Again, to get through to him might require some difficult measures.

The hero part is where I think you can reach him. Consider figuring out small things that he can do to be your hero. It really doesn't matter if you need a hero or not, he needs to be one. Better to have him be your hero than some other less deserving woman.

Appealing to his sense of the heroic is also a potential opening where he can begin to learn that heros are responsible, trustworthy, and do the right thing, even when it is hard.

You probably don't need to be reminded, but just for the record; ultimately, you can not control his actions. You also can NOT live in fear of the potential for failure or future pain. None of us gets through life unscathed. Most of us get beat up by life on a regular basis :-)

You have hurts, pains, scars and you are frightened of the future. This is the human condition. You have to choose to not live a future directed by fear of the past. Learn what you can from your pain. Let it sharpen your soul and wisdom, then dump the rest of it in the trash where it belongs.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble..

I'm listening,

Could you be a little more specific?
Examples perhaps? Paint me a picture?

Noodle

I like it.
I hope Gimble will tune in but I can see possibilities.
I personally would express admiration (don't overdo it, though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) for some real or movie person who shows heroism by saying "no" thus protecting the feelings of the woman he loves.
Something like "Wow, I can imagine how hard it is for a man to turn down such an offer."
Adding something like "I can only imagine how strong you must be to turn such offers down (now, that is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and I'm very grateful you are doing that for me. It's so easy to give into temptation, like with alcohol (come on, have another one) and I really admire a person who can say no."

Hope there's something you can use there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Gimble..

I'm listening,

Could you be a little more specific?
Examples perhaps? Paint me a picture?

Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, Noodle.

I will give it a quick try. It's 2am here and I was just headed off to bed when I saw your post.

A dose of reality would be something difficult for him. Obviously, I don't know him, but I would suspect that an explanation of his weakness followed by a separation while he supports both households and attends regular therapy would do the job, but it could cost you the relationship if he falters.

A strong sense of direction could be taught him by withdrawing your leadership of the relationship for a time - in a controlled way. Give him an opportunity to learn to stand upright and in a forthright manner without you.

The hero bit I see as an easy opportunity (motivation) to engage him to grow up and face the same monsters as above. With some encouragement from you, he can learn the truth about himself via examples of other strong men, and learn to make decisions based on timeless truths of duty and sacrifice, rather than what makes him feel good at any given moment.

You would have to figure out exactly how to 'call him up' to his desire for heroics, but I am sure you could do that. I have read many of your posts. You are an intelligent person.

I have worked with a number of young men and had opportunity to observe them. It doesn't take long to figure out what makes a young man (or most older ones) tick. In my experience, bad behavior can often be changed simply by acknowledging a persons strong points, and using those as leverage against the weak points.

I suspect that you intimidate him somewhat. If he is a typical male, he needs to feel needed and important. Really, that is what all of us need from each other. Wayward husband or no, you will have to make some room for him if you want to keep him.

I hope that helps, and if need be, I can probably make better examples and explanations in the light of day, when my eyelids aren't down around my chin :-)

All the best,
Gimble