After my wife had her affair she was some what remorseful. As things have progressed I have gotten more and more of an attitude and cold shoulder from her. She does not take responsibility for it and still blames me for making her have an affair. I have appoligized for my actions during our short time together and my not meeting her emotional needs. But she was not always meeting mine. She is blaming me for filing for divorce.At one point I thought abot working things out but her attitude made me second guess myself and I am now seeing her true colors. She has gone back to the way she was before I found out. At first she quit drinking and doing drugs but is now back to doing both.I am in counseling and she isn't. She says since I am not trying then why should she bother. It has been 3 months now and I still have a hard time sleeping. I know I was not the best husband, But she made the choice to go outside the marriage,saying that I forced her to do it. Any help from other members would be greatly appreciated

Hi BH --

I don't know how common this is (thank goodness), but my husband just had a very torrid, painful and public affair in a small town so that EVERYONE knew. But it was everyone's fault but his -- I didn't make him happy, I had made his miserable for years, He needed something to make him happy, he wanted a new life, she made it go further than he wanted, etc ..

For people guilty of of anything -- especially if they have weak characters -- when they do something wrong they can't face it -- it is always someone else's fault. The trick is to realize that, believe it and start knowing what game is being played here.

News

Hello,

This is very bad news. She is not remorseful and blames you for having sex with another man and now she is back into drinking and doing drugs. It sounds like your physical health and your mental health is at great risk. If they are doing drugs then it is my opinion it is time to move on. A drugee will drag you and everyone else around them down to the lowest possible level in life. I suggest you see an attorney. I wish you luck.

Bryanp,

This appears to be quite common, just on my review of posts here at MB forums. During our two day reconciliation, I was troubled by my WW complete lack of remorse yet saying she was" sorry for the pain". In the infrequent contact that I have had with W, the pervasive underlying theme is I am not sending the NC lettet because it would hurt the OM and she really did not feel reponsible for the A.

I just psent a couple of days posting to Nature on the Divorce/Divorcing forum.

The two common traits are immaturity and sense of entitlement. Hard ones to overcome if these are permanent features of your WS's personality.

Originally posted by bh76:
still blames me for making her have an affair.

That is a common way for the WS to assuage her guilt ... "You were so bad you MADE me have an affair."... Don't let this worry you. It is not your blame to claim.

She is blaming me for filing for divorce.At one point I thought abot working things out but her attitude made me second guess myself and I am now seeing her true colors. She has gone back to the way she was before I found out. At first she quit drinking and doing drugs but is now back to doing both.

MB does not work if there is addiction thrown into the mix.

My personal bias ... addiction without treatment and living "clean" = divorce.

That's just me.

I am in counseling and she isn't.

She can't face herself. Hence the addictions.

You are not obligated to spend the rest of your life with an addicted wife.

To me, the addictions are far more significant reasons this marriage will not work ... outweighing the adultery.

You cannot POJA an addict
You cannot expect honesty from an addict
You can never meet an addicts emotional needs ... the drugs and alcohol meet the needs, not a spouse

Allow yourself to heal.... go to AL-ANON
Pep

<small>[ November 18, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep,

Oh wise one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , are there addictions(other than drugs/alcohol) that would also "disqualify" a person for MB principles??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
<strong> Pep,

Oh wise one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , are there addictions(other than drugs/alcohol) that would also "disqualify" a person for MB principles?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Somewhere on the Harley's home or concepts pages ... there is the statement that MB concepts cannot be used when one or both spouses is addicted.

I'm just going by what Harley says...

I also think there are some mental illnesses that (when not treated) pretty much disqualify the use of MB concepts as well ... like boarderline personality ... I'm sure, in your practice, you can spot a boarderline at 10 paces ... a very unrewarding non-therapeutic relationship most of the time (my bias).

My son is bi-polar ... and when he was untreated, there was nothing other than hospitalization that could communicate "STOP THIS!" to him ... ~sigh~

How are you?

Pep

I am going to be he devil's advocate here. My XW always got angry when the subject was brought up. "He treated her special", "He paid attention to me", "You made me feel ugly and you did not want anything to do with me"...Those were her perceptions...which is really her REALITY. It was how she felt, is that my fault? Certainly. Remember a cheat needs to justify their own actions and a large part of them deal with the feelings described above. I KNOW. I WANTED TO CHEAT, I WAS LONELY AND FELT LIKE THE ABOVE and I WAS HER FAULT!!! However, I DID NOT STRAY. I suffered while she was a hyprocrite with a capital H. As the BS you're the one that should be angry. As her and I went through a divorce, having relations with others,and now recovering I leanred a lot. She hurt me like nothing I have ever known. Right now the last thing I deal with is "How did she make it OK...even if just for a day and how do I know it won't ever happen again....?? "

So I'm basically saying....You're spouse has to be mad...it's your fault...how else can they deal with their actions.....??

SendMeOnMyWay,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right now the last thing I deal with is "How did she make it OK...even if just for a day and how do I know it won't ever happen again....?? "
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my H wants to understand how i could have done this too. he asks me this question a lot in various ways. how can i possible answer that question other than how i already have... i was in pain, i acted selfishly, bottomline, i acted 100% terribly and cruelly selfishly.

how can he be sure I wont do it again? i suppose no one can gaurentee anyone anything. but i know. the changes that have occured in me due to MB and IC and the fact that i confessed all to him, tell me i won't do it ever again. i won't even consider divorce as an option anymore. for better or worse, i will love and cherise and be only with him till death due us part. i can feel confident about that now but i cannot expect him to feel confident about that, i can only hope in time he will feel less fearful.

Pep,

The diagnosis of BPD is very difficult to make as is Bipolar disorder and should only be made by persons experienced in treating those conditions.

My WW was diagnosed with BPD several years ago, hence my question.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
<strong> Pep,

The diagnosis of BPD is very difficult to make as is Bipolar disorder and should only be made by persons experienced in treating those conditions.

My WW was diagnosed with BPD several years ago, hence my question. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think BPD is one of the most difficult personalities to deal with ... in part, because of the innate charm and flair for the dramatic that comes with BPD. Bipolar, as you know, is much more amenable to pharmaceutical intervention.

I am not talking about "diagnosing" BPD at 10 paces ... but you get a feel for the likelihood with certain behaviors... one thing that makes the hairs stand up on my neck:

"NO one but YOU has ever been helpful to me. You are the ONLY one who I can count on." ... I think "Oh-oh... watch out"

Pep

I have filed for divorce, because of her unwillingness to show remorse. I have apologized repeatedly for the mistakes that were made on my part during our marriage.We went to a joint counseling appointment before I knew of the affair and all she did was point out my bad parts,all the while knowing that she had violated our marriage. Even the counselor knew what she had done and yet sat there and let her blame me for all the problems.I may regret some of the things that have happened, but I will not regret marrying her or for filing for divorce.

Hi, H. I have a question for you...
Why, AFTER, filing for divorce are you seeking advice on this website??? Why not before...why not TRY to work things out with me? Why post on this site? You read Harley's book cover to cover and boldly stated that you didn't agree with anything he said and that you didn't regard his experience with any esteem...the MB website is based on the principles outlined in Harley's book.

I don't blame you for my A. However, the conditions of the marriage before I had the A were terrible. I know you didn't force me to have sex with anyone...but when you're neglected constantly in a marriage and your H doesn't treat you right...and when it happens over a long period of time, things like affairs have the possibility of happening. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it an excuse either.

I am remorseful for what I did...and I tried and tried and tried to show it. I stayed out of the house like you wanted, I left you alone like you wanted, I cooked you meals and left them in the fridge for you...you didn't eat them. I made your parents soup...you didn't take it to them. I did your laundry. I wrote you letters. How can you honestly claim that I am not remorseful??? What I got in return was nothing but cruelty.

I am not an addict. I shouldn't drink and hadn't been, but upon you telling me that you were divorcing me, I drowned my sorrows, yes. Does that make me an addict? No. Was that the smartest thing to do? No. Is it a struggle for me to stay away from drinking? Yes.

As far as counseling...you haven't been around, so you wouldn't know what I am doing to improve myself and change for the better.

You say you're divorcing me b/c of my unwillingness to show remorse. Well, my response to that is that I did show remorse...I am remorseful. What did those letters say? Sorry sorry sorry. I tried everything I knew to do...i took the advice on this site...nothing worked. How else was I supposed to show you my remorse??? You didn't even attempt a reconciliation. You didn't allow the time...you jumped into the separation and the filing.

I forgot to mention what I'm doing instead of counseling. As you know, my BH, I've been in and out of counseling for several years.
My family encouraged me to stop seeing the last counselor I was going to b/c he was egging me on...telling me that my marriage was doomed, telling me that I married the wrong person. Since then, I've tried to find a Christian counselor, but none of them are taking new patients. At church there is a new pastor of counseling. Pastor Dewitt and I met to talk once and he suggested that I see the new pastor of counseling, but that he'd needed to be broken in slowly. So...am going to see him. In the mean time, I've been reading a lot of advice books. I've been praying and seeking God's help. I've looked into joining the kinship ladies group at church.

After you told me about your intention to file, neither of us have acted appropriately. These "true colors" that you speak of...well, those who know me know who I am. Those who've been reading my posts know that I'm remorseful. I'm mad that you didn't even attempt a reconciliation. I see so many betrayed spouses on this site who desperately want to work things out with their WS's. But you didn't try...and that hurts.

RAE
If you read my posts I did not call you an addict.Your emails yesterday did blame me for your affair. You not telling me about your affair,by having to learn about it from HIM was the lowest blow. You say I took no responsibility for the state of our marriage before the affair, but I beg to disagree. You said yourself that you never forgave me for the things that I did,but you expect me to forgive you for this.I am on this site to get feed back from regular people. Not just help from a book.
Respectfully,
BH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rae03:
I am remorseful for what I did...and I tried and tried and tried to show it. I stayed out of the house like you wanted, I left you alone like you wanted, I cooked you meals and left them in the fridge for you...you didn't eat them. I made your parents soup...you didn't take it to them. I did your laundry. I wrote you letters. How can you honestly claim that I am not remorseful??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please excuse my ignorance... how does cooking and laundry and all the rest show REMORSE ???

I don't get the connection of these activities to the equivilant of showing your husband remorse for the affair.

Could you elaborate or explain?

Pep

Rae and BH,

I'm curious...can you each tell me a bit about what made you fall in love with the other person in the first place? Be as specific as you can.

first,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My family encouraged me to stop seeing the last counselor I was going to b/c he was egging me on...telling me that my marriage was doomed, telling me that I married the wrong person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i had this same experience!!! except i did not confide in even my family as to what this IC said to me. i stopped seeing him on my own accord, or more accurately he told me if i was not going to proceed with a divorce, he could no longer be my IC. that was fine with me, but i will tell you something, his words did some major damage because even though logic should have told me to totally discount what this IC had said, internally i did not, i took it so much to heart. i suppose it's because i already had such a huge fear that my H did not love me.

second, i am sure i am not the only one thinking this...

BH and RAE, sure looks like you two have an oppertunity here to slow down and maybe work things out. i've said this many times, i have seen so many miracles happen here, the transformation of my own life now being my favorite one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> excellent things are possible for you two if you both take a deep breath and right now and right here stop worrying about the past for a second... what you tried to do while the other did not try what you wanted them to do, etc etc and allow a miracle to happen for you both.

you are in my prayers,

Karen

bumping up for bh and rae.

BH

I have read raes posts and your own here at various times and can see a mix of misunderstanding and overwhelming pain & hurt on both sides.

Rae needs to know what do you want for her to demonstrate her remorse, it obvious sorry wont do it, so what sort of actions do you deem to be adequate ? I mean just the kind of actions that you as a BS would wish to have to help you and your wife begin to mend the hurt.
Is it seeing a MC or IC, is it freely accounting for her actions when away from you? That sort of thing.

Rae if you call up a thread not long ago on this site with the name Topic: WW's need some advice on recovering M where I asked much the same question of BS about what they wished to see from their FWW then it may help provide some ideas for you to use. It was helpful to me. I’ll bump it up for you so maybe it can help.

Bh sceptical as you may be and hurt as you maybe, is it possible to just put things on hold to see what you can work out together? I mean you ALWAYS have the option of ending your M and I think rae knows you are VERY serious about this.

I’m just suggesting a hold while you consider getting some joint MC .
Of course this is entirely your decision and your right to end the M if you cannot accept anything else. However there might just be a window of hope here for both of you.