Hi Orchid!

I was hoping that you would be one of the people here to explain this and put it in a useable framework for us. Excellent post!

You did a good job of explaining to me why some WSs seem to be treated "better" than others, the same for different BSs too. It comes down to sane or not, right? Sane or Wants Help = Tact and Love. Insane or Stupid = Firmness and Love. That's an explanation that I can implement.

When I first came here, I wanted help but I was definitely in a fog myself (insane probably <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) and WAT's Quickstart for Betrayed Spouses was about all I could comprehend for quite a while. That, and Chris's short, clear, blunt responses. Boy, was my BS fog thick or what?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do you think putting together a Guidelines-at-a-Glance would be helpful for this situation too?

Take care

Drucilla,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dr.’s make great ex-Husband’s </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Say what????????????

***cough$$$$$$$$$$cough***

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Great post Orchid !!

Hi Cym...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As my hero Kelly Bundy says: Dr.’s make great ex-Husband’s </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was just a joke...

Kelly always wanted a Rich Dr-type for an EXH. I'm not suggesting in any way that mt3b is a golddigger, but Kelly was. She was always looking for her future exH. She wanted a Dr or professional sports player. - Dru

Hi MT3, hope your dad is resting comfortably and gald you're getting in lots of special time with him. That is a blessing!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong> Sadly enough, Ed did admit the other night that he may be a narcissist...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this stuff from MB make riveting reading, LOL, but try downloading some stuff on narcissism and see for yourself what you think.

Hang in there, girl.

~ Snow

Dear LovingBoundaries and SOM,

Thanks for your support. Just wanted Mom and her WS to know my 2 cents. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know even if Mom was perfect and everyone said the right thing to the WS. As long as there is a WS and not an xWs or an H, then those words c/b like spitting in the wind. Therein lies the problem plain and simple. So the question to all the supporters (and even Dr. Phil) is: Are our faces wet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

L.

Momto3boys,

I have followed your story on here for a while now and I would just like to say that I think you're doing the right thing by not "kicking him to the curb" just yet.

I also have 3 kids. My oldest (now 16yo son) was diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, and BiPolar since second grade. He is without a doubt, my greatest source of stress in my life...he is one of my greatest joys as well. We have done therapy, medication and most recently we have had to involve the law.

My son was also the reason I didn't give up when my H confessed his A to me. I knew that the two of us had weathered so very many storms together that this was nothing we couldn't also handle...as long as we did it together.

I am ashamed that my kids also knew about the A. My H told our son in a very cruel way (that he has apologized for and is deeply ashamed and remorseful for) However, since DS knew, I felt that I should tell our two daughters as gently as possible (leaving out all details) before their brother accidently let the cat out of the bag. The kids were devastated of course. The relationship between DS and H has not ever been the same. There is zero respect for his Dad, which is why we had to involve the law...our son decided last Feb that he shouldn't have to listen to Dad anymore...combine that with the inability to think things through (ADHD) and the fact that his meds were just not working, and our 15yo (at that time) was arrested for domestic violence. He is still struggling with the respect issue and we haven't givin up on him (nor will we ever) However there are days that I truly wish to just say,"To hell with all of it"

Our M has thrived inspite of daily issues with kids, bills, school, bills, kids lol you get the picture. We are better now than the day we married. I'm not to crazy about how we got here, but I am proud that we did.

I know how much strength it takes for you to care for your boys on a daily basis and I, for one, applaud you for it. (you too Dad!) Three "normal" kids will suck the life out of you, let alone three "special" ones <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Then throw on top of that the fact that you are caring for your Dad (I also had to care for my terminal Aunt AND my MIL...It's the hardest thing in the world to do and remain sane enough to care for your family still) not to mention that you also have to worry about your Mom's health through this difficult time. I am so very sorry that you are dealing with all of this. I wish there was some way I could help.

Dad will get through this a wiser and kinder man, Mom. One way or another. With God's grace he will come out of the darkness soon. He needs some of my Mom's age-old wisdom, "Use the brains God gave you and don't do stupid stuff!"

Mom, you are a beautiful lady with a kind heart. Just keep reminding yourself that it's always darkest before the dawn. You're all in my prayers,

God bless,
~nutcase3

Hey, Nutcase, been there and done that! I, too, have supported Mom's decision to stay with DT3B for the boys' sake (and mom's sake) alone! When you have tough kids then life really is tough and it takes two strong loving, committed adults to keep everyone sane. And, well, some days are just plain crappy and insane no matter what you do.

Our two toughest "cases" are now 19 (twins), going to college, working full time and making us proud. But after affair no. 1, when we were still in the "heat of the battle" with the two boys, I told H to go ahead and move across the country to his little honey... and take the twins with him. I'd keep the other two (also ADHD, but with less complications) with me.

He said he couldn't leave me with all of the kids because he still "cared" about me (LOL!) but the thought of taking them with him put a big damper on his little love story.

Ed's OW, too, who has a 12-year-old son has said that a boy needs his dad and if the child she was carrying was a boy she'd drop "it" off on Ed and Kandi's doorstep after birth. Do you think she sees, that by her own logic, Ed should stay with Kandi and be a father to his three boys?

Anyway, the boys are surely a complication in all of this. That I truly understand.

~ Snow

Hi Snowbelle,

LOL I thought I was the only Mom in history that told her WH that he would DEFINATELY get custody <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> He was SHOCKED! lol I told him that the kids would need him badly to show them that he wasn't dumping them...only me lol. He said,"where will I put them?" (at the time he was staying with his sister in her basement, and she had made it VERY clear that all 3 kids would NOT live with them. She would happily take our oldest daughter, who happens to have been the only friend her daughter had, but the other two could forget it) I told H that hewould have to get an apartment and find a babysitter for while he was at work. Simple. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He decided about 2 weeks after that that he wanted to come home and set out to follow each and every "rule" I put down. It's been just over 2 years now, and the OW is merely a blip on the radar. NC after the first week home.

The girls are doing much better. Our 15yo D is not cutting herself anymore (I didn't mention that she began self-mutilating after she found out) she's doing excellent in school, even mentoring a younger student with similar problems. Our 14yo D is on the National Junior Honor's Society and pulling straight A's and on Student Congress and in honors band.

Our Son, though...he still hasn't got to where he needs to be. He failed 10th grade and is suspended for Monday for using profanity with his teacher. I know he is capable of being better. He has a genius level IQ and refuses to do his work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He has a HUGE chip on his shoulder and I don't know how to help him. We've tried everything.

I firmly believe that couples need to exhaust EVERY avenue to reconcilliation before they throw in the towel and divorce (with a few exceptions like abuse) I think Mom and Dad23boys are doing what they can with what they have to work with. (I think Dad is still needing his cranium removed from his rectal region, but he'll get there eventually...hey! Maybe he can swap services with a proctologist and get some help with that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )Just kidding dad

Best wishes
~nutcase3

I didn't know that the Mom and Dad's 3 sons had special needs and were on medication. What a challenge for both Mom and Dad. Couples with special needs children have an even higher divorce rate than the 50% for our society in general. I believe the last number I saw was a 75% divorce rate.

I'm wondering that since Dad has several times emphasized his superior intelligence, that there might not be some kind of wounding in him for having "produced" (birthed, created) three special needs children? What a blow to the ego! My first husband and I were BOTH intelligent people, kind, religious, always did the right thing. Our first son was born with a birth defect. I remember a part of me being so sad that I couldn't give my son a "normal" start in life....Something that most of us take for granted. My husband felt extra guilty because the defect was inherited from his side of the family. Prior to this, my husband and I had always been able to accomplish our goals. We were high achievers and very hard workers. I don't think we were egotistical, but this birth defect in our son was one thing that we couldn't "fix" no matter what we did, or how hard we tried. It left us with such a sense of powerlessness.

Some people can't handle that feeling. I would suspect this is true of many doctors who are "healers", who assume daily responsibility for many peoples' lives and wellbeing. So when one feels powerless in a situation, you can dig in and take on the challenge..accepting the limitations, and learning to take joy in the little steps of progress. The other response is to go into denial and run from the situation, because it's too painful to face your pain and limitations. If there is the slightest bit of entitlement or narcissism in one's personality, which route do you think they're most likely to choose??? But of course as a narcissist you're not going to let YOUR needs go unmet. So you go outside the home situation, away from the pain, and find another person to meet those needs. And you don't want to look bad to others, so "hey..what can I do? There's another innocent child involved and an OW that needs me." If the person isn't narcissistic, they may carry psychological wounds from childhood experiences which left them in pain, and with a sense of powerlessness. As adults they may run away from seeing it in others. That way, they don't have to be reminded of their own pain.

Ok enough armchair therapizing! I must say, however, that I was surprised that Dr. Phil didn't explore some of these issues with Mom and Dad. Behaviors that don't make sense are often based on ways/behaviors we have learned as children to survive and cope with life. They may no longer work or be appropriate when we reach adulthood.

Just my $.02, or $.03 worth.