My WW spoke with OM this week and told him that she wanted to work on our M. The only problem is that they still work in the same department.

I don't want to bring up the A or make my WW feel "trapped" or anything, but how should I go about making sure that they don't speak? How can I encourage her for not having contact without making her feel patronized or guilty?

WW is on the phone with Steve Harley right now. He wanted to talk to her before we start MC. I'm hoping that everything went well and that she's not on the defensive. She thinks that we are different from the couples in the books and on the message boards. I'm hoping that things went well.

Thanks!

There's a pretty good chance that Steve will explain to her the importance of NC not only for saving and rebuilding the marriage but for her own emotional wellbeing as well. This latter point is what must be conveyed to her so that she can see that that NC does not mean sacrificing herself for the marriage at all.

Rykon,
Thanks for the update!
It is very encouraging that your WW is talking with Steve!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
It of course would be impossible for her to not have any contact if they continue to work in the same department.
Her telling the OM that she wants to work on M is of course not nearly as strong as you would like! Not exactly a NC kind of asertion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I am sure she is still in a FOG and in certain ways still wants to cling to her fantacies - fond memories of that secret, romantic life she had with OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Does she feel that no matter how many books, articles and people say that NC is necessary to work on M, it does not apply to her? ... HMMMM tells you that she is still in the FOG!! She can swear on stack of bibles that there is zero chance of the flame starting over - NON SENSE!! If it over between him & her, why is so important not to have this NC?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Independent of the potential or lack of potential of the continued spark between them, there is the question of your felings & your boundaries. For a M to be successful I believe this respect for each other is critical.
Like I have said before, maybe it is common with all WS's -- they tend to want to make all the rules - they don't have a problem establishing their boundaries - what they want & don't want to do, but have very little respect for the BS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> This the dynamic I believe you have to work on to change. By working on changing yoruself - abiility to stand up tall for what you believe is right. With confidence & dignity, but also with politeness & humility - Fair, but FIRM.
I am not an expert, but I believe that if an abusive, self-centered person or one that is currently in the "Taker" posture knows the person there are dealing with is just not going to leave or ultimately make a really strong stand, they will just not give in, like out of the generosity of their heart. They have become acustomed to getting their own way & not comprimising their way & they don't want to give that up.
I may be taking too much of my personal experience & applying to your situation & WS, so take what I say with perspective as to your own situation with your WW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> You don't want to be nasty be any strecth, but you don't want to become a doormat either! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
If you can keep her involved with Steve & she committs to work on M - do what Harley suggests, it should work out!!
You met with a HR person about this, right?
Keep up the work on you and your well-being!
Peace, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
HH

<small>[ November 19, 2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</small>

If you really want to see the poo hit the fan, send an anonymous message to OM's boss stating that you believe there's a chilled work environment because it appears you have to sleep with a supervisor in order to get ahead in the company. Name names.

This is called "third party sexual harassment."

It's real and it ought to send a chill down the spine of ANY company executive.

HH,

As always, thanks. You've been a great friend in this.

WAT,

I may just do that if I can figure out how. I would love to blow this thing out of the water.

My W mentioned the talk with Steve Harley tonight. She said that it went well and that she will fill out the EN questionaire and read the basic concepts. I even came upstairs tonight to find her reading them... okay, she was skimming them, but STILL!

I am concerned about the lack of effort on her part, though. I know that it has to be hard for her, but she needs to realize that she needs to get away from OM in order for things to work. I'm hoping that Steve will touch on this since I know it will sound better coming from him.

I just keep trying to remind myself "little baby steps", "marathon, not a sprint".

Rykon,
that soounds like good news about your DW and Steve's Couseling. I have a perception that that kind of thing has to go slow, otherwise the counselor will scare the WS off. The WWS does have a lot to deal with in terms of theri own guilt & feelings of self worth. And of course in order for the Counselor to gain thier confidence that this will help them & it is not just to help the BS, it does not move as quickly as us as BS would hopr.
I forgot, it is possible for your DW to take a lateral move, switch department and all, right? I mean for her to switch would not mean quiting the company & a total end to her career, right?
Independent of the A, people do change their career path - switch departments and all.
I would still work on being more independent - not LB or demanding, but more independent & not falling over backwards to do everything she wants, that is until she shows you that she can move a little towards the stuff that you want.
When push comes to shove the NC thing is a deal buster more most people. It is just not fair to YOU!! You deserve some emotional safety and she will eventual ned to work & perhaps change in order for your to "earn" her trust back.
IMHO, if you just give your trust back to her & she does not have to do anything ... well sometimes we just do not appreciate free gifts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> In this example, I think you end up enabling her to do this again! I believe Dobson talks about this.
Keep us up to date! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Peace,
HH

If she's even just sniffing the MB information, back off and let her proceed at her own pace. You can't rush this. Even hold off further exposure if she's showing some interest.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rykon:
<strong> .... how should I go about making sure that they don't speak? How can I encourage her for not having contact without making her feel patronized or guilty? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rykon, from one who has been in a similar situation, the sad truth is that you can't ever make sure they don't speak, unless you have an internal spy (and I didn't). You really, truly, have to accept that they ARE speaking because it is very likely that they are, if only about business.

The best offense would be for your wife to move to another department or get another job. My H continued to work with OW for 18 months after dday (different departments) and it wasn't until he left the company that real healing began for me. Even though the last 12 months he worked there I was pretty sure there was no contact whatsoever between them, I just couldn't let go of the pain while they were still in close proximity.

The best defence that will encourage her not to make contact is a good Plan A. It might feel patronizing to her at first, but the more you do it, the more genuine it will become and the more incentive she will have to stay away from OM.

Hope this helps.

~ Snow