thanks brown, i'm really glad you and LINY are still fighting the good fight!! when will my BH really take my hand and start to work a recovery with me??

FL, I can only imagine how your H is acting, because I remember how I acted during that time. Ugh. And I remember thinking the same things! If my H was happy, I was mad because I wasn't happy, and how dare he, how could he, be happy?!?

Then, if he was upset, how dare he be upset! Didn't he know what I was going through? Geesh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I can tell you that for us, open and honest communication (using our words carefully when very upset), sharing our feelings, and TIME have been our greatest allies.

I disagree that you shouldn't "complain" about the way your H's behavior makes you feel. You have every right to have feelings, FL. That is something our MC really emphasized with us. My H is not destined to lose every argument, or have to be perfect and quiet and let me storm all over him whenever I am upset. We are equal. Our feelings are equal. We "owe" each other nothing, neither is "better" than the other.

Taking the week off from R talk sound great. I have heard that advice given here a LOT.

I have been suffering from the eating thingie, too. Except, I haven't been exercising. Ugh. One thing I have tried with the eating, is to try and eat healthy foods, that I don't eat often. So, on the weekends, I try new recipes for Hummus and eat it with veggies. I have tried organic couscous. At work, I take carot sticks and grapes. At night I snack on low fat microwave popcorn. And drink TONS of water. And stay away from the vino!

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Hang onto this rollercoaster we are all on! Yeeehaaawww!

Spidey

thanks SS.

i did go tell my husband that when he does not call me i feel unimportant. he gave me a hug. but the hug didn't seem to help.

why??

am i making a disrespectful judgement by thinking he does not really mean it, he just hugged me cuz he felt like he had to?

i think i am wishing he would call me cuz he needs to touch base with me. maybe that is unhealthy to think. he does not have the same needs as me, we are different people. right?

but somehow i still wished he would want to touch base with me every morning. he is asleep when i leave for work. it is a very lonley way to start the day. yes my daughter is there, and that is nice and i drive her and her friend to school.

but is it so bad to want a phone call when he gets up?? why is that asking too much??

{{FL}}

Hang in there. We've's got a lotta work, huh? We men can be so thick-headed, stubborn, and let our egos get in the way sometimes! (Well, at least me!) Give it time. Alot to process in a man's brain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i did go tell my husband that when he does not call me i feel unimportant. he gave me a hug. but the hug didn't seem to help.

why??

am i making a disrespectful judgement by thinking he does not really mean it, he just hugged me cuz he felt like he had to?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Regardless, IMHO, he realized you needed one and gave it. I think IMHO this was really a big step for him. He was thinking about you.

Keep at it FL. And let us know how you are doing!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FL, sometimes these sitches can seem so frustrating and overwhelming. I wonder if what you are experiencing is more of a man/woman difference in communication style/needs, but it still doesn't FEEL good. I know many times a day I wish my H would call me, just to say hi, and sometimes he does. But most of the time, he gets busy doing whatever he's doing, and before he knows it the whole day has passed.

In MC, I was told that if I wanted to talk, and H didn't call, to call him ~ instead of being hurt that he wasn't reading my mind. I gather you have told your H that you would like him to call you. When you do that, and the calls still don't come, it feels like a shun, or an ignore, IMO.

I would just call him. Drop of DD and her friend, put on a headset, dial him up on your cell, and wake him up with a cheerful "Good Morning!" And talk to him on your commute in to the office. Have you tried this?

Just some suggestions. Also, have you two talked of MC? I know you are seeing an IC, last I heard. Our MC helped us not only navigate the painful waters of the A, he also helped us understand how/why these breaches in communication happen. And how we can both work together to get what we want.

I know that if my H cannot talk to me, when he sees my name on the caller ID, he sends me to voicemail. And he makes an effort to get back to me ASAP. Sometimes he forgets. Now that it isn't such a big issue, sometimes I forget! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hang in there, girlie. This is a journey, not a destination.

Spidey

jetgirl, so are you going to answer my questions??

LINY, thanks.

SS, i had to laugh... waking him up with a cheerful good morning is the LAST thing he wants!!! he hates how perky i am in the morning. he is not one of those people that wakes up happy, refreshed and ready to start a new day, he has to gradually work into the new day. however i do agree, doing nothing and hoping he will read my mind is not a good plan.

when he came up to watch the news, i told him in very strong "I" language, that i feel unimportant when he does not call me. i explained how i wake up and leave quietly cuz he is sleeping and how i go into office and pretty much talk to no one these days and it's lonely feeling. i told him how i have realized my #1 EN is attention. we almost got off on a difficult path, i.e. a conversation about how much OM did or did not meet my SF EN. i missed explaining to him the difference, yes at the beginning sexual activity with the OM was physically enjoyable, but it was never fullfilling like when i would have loving sex with H. as time when on, it was not even all that physically enjoyable with OM, but the attention EN was still being met. as time when on further and as i started having meetings with random people, the only "need" being met was my need to tell myself how disgusting, unsalvagable and low i was.

back to the main point of this post... today, immediately after dropping off my son for school, as in literally as my son closes the car door, H takes his cell phone and calls me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> says hi, and eventually asks me if i feel important now to which i answer a big yes with a big smile which i made sure to tell him about since he could not see my face.

i have to go to a mtg now!!!!

love to all.

and he just called me again now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(ok, i promise i will not post every time he calls me!!!)

but this did accomplish bumping this back up in the hopes of getting jetgirl out of her shell!!!

FL,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he weekend brought me down some, i seem to be able to do no right in H's eye's sometimes. if i am too happy, he thinks i don't care, if i am blue, i annoy him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if that is the case it is time to be too happy and stay that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Seriously, if he asks why you are so happy, have a long list of things you are happy about including that love him, you enjoy being with him, and that he has given you a chance to lead the rest of your life with him. Then smile big <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and then give him a kiss or a hug.

It will drive him crazy but if he gradually gets the idea that you enjoy him, being with him, married to him, and that it makes you happy, he will gradually come to see that your prefer him to all others. Not a bad message to send is it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Of course it may take a year or so before he "get's it", us guys are sort of slow you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Keep up the good work FL, it is easier to work now that you have the whole load off of your back isn't it?

Sort of reminds me of the saying "Put your shoulder to the wheel, you nose to the grind stone, and...try to work in that position." You have finally stood up and now you can work.

Good for you for telling him you need the call, and great for him to call you. Thank that man...you know what I mean.

Have a great Thanksgiving and make sure HE knows what you are thankful for.

God Bless,

JL

FL: You are correct about Onlywords being my W. She doesn't spend much time here as it reminds her of bad times. Best of luck to you and yours. (Well, I guess its not really luck that will help you recover your M, but you knew what I meant.) Take care.

Ok, I'm out of my shell....just for you FL. What kind of questions do you have for me? Should I be afraid to ask? (LOL)

jetgirl,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> hey jetgirl, glad you smiled, how come you are not posting? how are you doing?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


JL, not much time to respond right now, i was really just wanting to check on Adchic... i'll have to re-read your post tommorow when i have more time, although it is a pretty straight forward post. when i got home today, i went up to him at a random time after i had been home for a bit and gave him a kiss on the cheek, told him i felt important today and thanked him.

we all went to play raquetball tonight, first game was with the kids, second game was just he and i, when it was about 15-18 (i started out winning but he caught up and passed me, so he was in the lead) i went up to him, gave him a hug and told him how much i really enjoy playing raquetball with him.

i will try to stay happy, i know that is in my control to be happy irregardless of his mood, and maybe in time it will rub off on him.

so much for not responding!!! ha!!

it was very nice hearing from you!!! have a wonderful thanksgiving.

i'm bumping this up instead of starting a new one because i thought it would be good to have JL's last response close by.

i have totally lost my happy self.

all i feel right now is intense fear, and it is crippling me and it is now causing distance.

maybe that is what my subconcious wants??? i seriously don't know.

i do know trying to tell this to H has only caused things to be worse. he was at a point where he was starting to feel hopeful and then i go off in the other direction, fearful and discouraged.

help

FL,

Ok, let's take this a step at a time. You know the drill, let's debug this puppy and get the code running right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

First, your H.

He, I am sure, is scared to death to hear you are having some sort of crisis of confidence. He is not sure what happened to you before but whatever it was it sure did not help him or the marriage. So my take on this is jump around this logic for awhile.

He cannot help you with this issue as it is internally generated. So let the man heal and do your best to reassure him you are here for the long haul OK?

Now to the main logic section of this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

That would be you FL. What the heck are you afraid of? Let's go down the logic tree here.

1. Financial...you are the main breadwinner so you can surely stand on your own with your kids. Nothing to fear here is there? Nope!

2. Being alone...well at the risk of sounding tacky FL, you don't have a problem attracting men do you? So your future will be devoid of men ONLY if YOU decide that is to be. Nothing to fear here is there? Nope!

3. Never being loved...Well of course you have been. Your H fought for two years because he loved you deeper than you and perhaps he even realized. He is struggling now, but where is he? He is with you. So it seems to me you are someone that is capable of being lovable and your H has varified that. Nothing to fear here is there? Nope!

4. Never being good enough... Again, the data suggests that you can be and you are, PLUS you are a strong woman with a strong sense of right and wrong (isn't it odd that I would say that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). I say this because you conscience would NOT let you continue to lie to your H, and in both cases you have confronted your fears and done the honest and honorable thing by telling him. All this suggests that you should not be afraid of fear because you have faced it and done the right thing. So nothing to fear about fear is there? Nope!

5. Your H deciding to leave...A reasonable thing to worry about and want to avoid, but fear???? I don't think so. You are doing all you can right now right? YOU are in therapy, you have faced your demons (or is it deamons if you are a Unix type? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) So nothing to fear here is there? Nope!

Sooooo, FL lay it on me what is it the you think you should be afraid of? Seems to me you are pretty squared away and very strong. Are you worried that life will not work out as you hope it will? Worried is a good thing sometimes,but I don't think you should fear it. Why? Because I can assure you that life will not work out as you planned. Some of it will be far better than you think and other parts won't be what you planned at all. That's life.

Ok, FL, start talkin girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 3. Never being loved... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thats the one. fear he will manage to stay married to me but just bearly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well of course you have been. Your H fought for two years because he loved you deeper than you and perhaps he even realized. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but this is only because he finally decided he could trust me, that i was never unfaithful. now he knows i have been unfaithful and a lot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He is struggling now, but where is he? He is with you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">this is very true and he was feeling hopeful for the first time in a while. he very seriously needs me to do 3 things. 1. never drink again, this is not a problem except that i didn't take him seriously enough when he asked the first time cuz i had one drink at thanksgiving with a cousin of his (female cousin!!) after H had left (he had to leave early to do something), i stayed and then drove rest of the family home (our kids, his brother, SIL and their kids and H's mom). since he was gone, i had a drink. i knew i should not have. i stopped at one. and i fessed up. it upset him. i am glad i did not just bury it by not telling him. i understand much better how important it is to him now. he is not mad anymore but he needs me to stick to it now.

he also needs me to lose weight, this is not first time he has asked for that. i have done really good with exercising but my eating is not in control and therefore i am not making much progress. he says when he sees me eating something i should not be, especially when in his presence, it results in him feeling unimportant.

finally he needs me to be faithful.

he says if these 3 things happen, he thinks there is hope. he says all of them show him that i have learned self-control. something he needs to know i can have for him to feel safe.

his requests are totally reasonable and his reasons are very healthy.

me letting my fear that our marriage will just end up like it was before and i will feel lonely and abandon is NOT helping me!!!

and of course i had to wait till the end of the day to post this and now i have to go before i end up too late. so now i cannot continue this little discussion here. more self-sabotoging???

how about i just take some deep breaths, go home, take some aspirin!! and tell my H i love him, i'm glad he is feeling hopeful and that i will do as he requests.

i have been very good with my eating today, there were times i wanted to go to vending machine for candy bar too!! i have to link, inappropriate eating with disrespecting H so that I will have enough motive to stop. currently i use the food to comfort myself. which actually does not work cuz i just feel bad about it anyway. another reason why i know H's request is a good and a healthy one.

for the record. i have lost about 5 lbs since march. not much but at least i am not gaining!!!

i'll check in later for more words of wisdom from you JL. if you have anything more to add. the bottomline is i need to give it time and have patience (yes i read what you wrote to Myrta too, T&P)

actually JL, i think maybe i fear being loved more than fear not being loved. i know that's got to sound really crazy!!! why would i think that?? maybe being loved means being hurt sometimes too, cuz that is bound to happen. sitting behind a wall is lonley but it feels a bit safer in a way. i feel like i would rather be totatlly rejected and alone than hurt anymore. i guess what i have to do then is to learn to manage my fear of hurt. hurting is part of life too. right?

i sure can make life complicated!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FL,

I think you really don't need my advise. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> YOu do have this pretty much figured out. Let's consider what you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have been very good with my eating today, there were times i wanted to go to vending machine for candy bar too!! i have to link, inappropriate eating with disrespecting H so that I will have enough motive to stop. currently i use the food to comfort myself. which actually does not work cuz i just feel bad about it anyway. another reason why i know H's request is a good and a healthy one.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So let's see you feel guilty when you eat so you are NOT comforted much. Do you eat when you are nervous? I do. If so perhaps you need something different to transfer the nerves to. I went to decaf and that helped. I think you should consider this is a slightly different light. Instead of linking this to disrespecting your H, I think you should like it to disrespecting YOURSELF. It would appear that your H wants you healthy, lean, and ready for... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> for many years to come. Further, I would guess he has linked your being down and needy to your weight fluctuations. Is that a possibility? It seems he has plans to hang on to you doesn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">for the record. i have lost about 5 lbs since march. not much but at least i am not gaining!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A downward trend is always good. To accelerate it will take a PLAN to lose weight, I mean carefully planning what you will eat each day instead of figuring it out as you go during the day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i'll check in later for more words of wisdom from you JL. if you have anything more to add. the bottomline is i need to give it time and have patience (yes i read what you wrote to Myrta too, T&P)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohmmmm, T&P, T&P,... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You got it girl.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">actually JL, i think maybe i fear being loved more than fear not being loved. i know that's got to sound really crazy!!! why would i think that?? maybe being loved means being hurt sometimes too, cuz that is bound to happen. sitting behind a wall is lonley but it feels a bit safer in a way. i feel like i would rather be totatlly rejected and alone than hurt anymore. i guess what i have to do then is to learn to manage my fear of hurt. hurting is part of life too. right?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hurting is how you know you are alive FL. Further it makes you appreciate the good things. I would guess that you fear being loved because it does make you vulnerable. As you said it makes you capable of being hurt AND it suggests that you don't trust the one that loves you. You two have hurt one another over the years and you survived so fearing it doesn't make too much sense. What is more interesting is that HE took the risk of rebuilding and he seems to be willing to take the risk again.

Have you ever asked him where he gets what it takes to risk loving? It should make for an interesting discussion coupled with your fears. But, FL, if you don't risk it, then your marriage cannot mean much more than your affairs did. You need to take the risk and let him love you and you love him back in return. I have this feeling that it will transform you, your marriage, and your H.

Perhaps this is something you need to talk about with IC and then perhaps with H. But, you can decide to love and be open, and vulnerable and if you are then I think you will find that his love for you will grow.

FL, love is fed by love. Isn't it time you started to feed his, so that he can carry you when the going gets tough? AND you can carry him.

Life is a team sport FL see if he will join your team and then lead him into where you need to be. I am just guessing but if you decide NOT to fear love, everything will change for you, even the sex.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

i sure can make life complicated!!! [/quote]

Hi FL,

It's good to see you back... It looks you and your H are progressing nicely... Your H has given you some very specific things that will help him (and you too!).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> actually JL, i think maybe i fear being loved more than fear not being loved. i know that's got to sound really crazy!!! why would i think that?? maybe being loved means being hurt sometimes too, cuz that is bound to happen. sitting behind a wall is lonley but it feels a bit safer in a way. i feel like i would rather be totatlly rejected and alone than hurt anymore. i guess what i have to do then is to learn to manage my fear of hurt. hurting is part of life too. right?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, my has said almost the exact same thing.... FL, Your H loves you... remember, focus on the facts and not on your feelings...

You and your H are doing great... keep working on the issues that you've mentioned and let us know how things are going...

Semper Fi,
RIF

JL,

no i guess i really don't need too much advice, just better execution!!

as for the eating, no i'm not comforted in the long run, but it does still taste good!!! (ok, that is my first and only attempt to kinda laugh).

on a more serious note, yes, i do need to talk with IC in more detail over my ability to trust and deal with feeling vunderable.

i have a harder time linking eating bad to disrespecting myself because i have never "felt" fat. i have historically been a smaller person, my wedding dress was size 6. i am short and i have small bones. now that is NOT to say i don't have too much extra weight on me, i really do, but except for when i go out to buy clothes (which i don't do often, i have NEVER liked shopping, even as a teenager), i forget the extra weight is there. i enjoy exercising, when i am not doing that, i miss it. since it has been colder and i have not been out on my bike outside, i have gotten into a very good exercise routine at work, spin classes and body sculpting classes. i used to work out with a personal trainer and although i'm not "in shape" he always told me i am one of his strongest clients. so that contributes to my feeling of being in good shape (even with the extra weight, that is until i go clothes shopping!!!).

now when i binge, that is disrespectful of myself, but i really have not done that much at all since last march, there were however a few times and i don't recall any episodes of that since the second confession.

i have never consumed much caffine, don't like the smell of coffee, never have, and i've never been much of a soda drinker. i like water and i crave milk, always have. chocolate milk is the best of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

this is my plan. NO bindging!! that is non-negotiable. 2 solid weeks of extremely strick food intake, i'm going to try atkins one more time. after that, i continue with atkins but i have one small piece of chocolate work day as i leave for home, provided i have stuch to plan all day including my exercising. i know that might sound weird, but when i did atkins before, that is how i did it then too. one small piece of chocolate every work day. (i didn't realize this at the time, but i think that is what kept me from getting consitpated (sorry if that is too much info!!) which has been my problem since i have tried to do atkins this year.) so that is my plan. yesterday was a solid day of food, today will be day 2.

regarding... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you ever asked him where he gets what it takes to risk loving? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">at this point he is not sure he wants to stay together. he has made that very clear. he does not want me assuming all will be fine, he may want to divorce still. he just wants to give it time before deciding.

however, the fact remains, he is open to the possibility... so he must be taking some risk...

i'll try to get into a discussion about this sometime with him.

RIF, thanks for the encouragement. i appreciate it. by the way. H does know i am still posting and he is ok with that. i did offer to stop, in the end he told me to continue. he trusts me that no inappropriate relationship will get started here.

so in conclusion...

time and patience

facts not feelings

i will keep in touch (i'm always reading, just not posting quite as much). thanks.

RIF, a question for you actually...

what helped your W get over her fear? you said she said that same thing i said (that was a mouthful!) might she have any advice?

thanks again

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong> RIF, a question for you actually...

what helped your W get over her fear? you said she said that same thing i said (that was a mouthful!) might she have any advice?

thanks again </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll ask her the next time we have a chance to IM each other...

I think that the thing that helped her the most was my constant reassurance that I forgave her, that I loved her, and that I was proud that she was my W... It took me a while to get to that point... but once I did, my W's fears started to fade.

I still try and make it a point to let her know how proud I am of her every day... I know that many BS will read this and probably think... "there's no way that I'll ever be proud of my spouse after what they've done to me..."

Well, I'm not proud of what she "did to me"... I'm proud of her for the way that she owned up to what she did, changed her actions, and for standing by me as we rebuilt our M together...

So IMHO, I think that as your H deals with the issues at hand, and realizes that you are going to be right there with him as you both rebuild your M, that he will get to a point where he CAN provide the reassurance that you need.

Give him time and be patient with him... I've said it before, I think that you and your H have an exellent opportunity to rebuild your M. Your H is still with you... there will be bad days, but he hasn't left. This is going to take time, but you and your H will make it...

Semper Fi,
RIF