The important thing is that WW and OM both know that everyone else knows.

To that end, I'm trying to figure out what would be wrong with this "technique"... in an effort to get the job done and avoid major LB's, which I'm not convinced my WW can handle right now.

An anonymous email to OM stating in no uncertain terms that his boss and everyone else knows about the affair.
This is a true statement, except "everyone else" is a bit of a stretch... for now, anyway.

This particular species of OM is a spineless little (!@#^&* who puts his reputation at work above all else (including my wife).

What am I not thinking of?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tqt:
<strong> The important thing is that WW and OM both know that everyone else knows.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you know this?

An anonymous message to OM doesn't feel particularly good to me.

A (non-anonymous) message to OM's boss warning of potential third party sexual harassment is salivating.

BUT - if your statement above is really true - including OM's management - there is nothing to be gained and something to lose by repetitive exposure to those who don't care.

WAT

Hi WAT,
I'm sorry -- poor choice of wording on my part... what I should have said is:


In the process of exposing the A, the (most?) important thing is that the A partners know that everyone ELSE knows, ie. it's no longer a secret.


In my case, W/OM still don't think anyone knows, as far as I can surmise.

In reality, their boss knows because I emailed him last Thursday, and WW's closest friend/co-worker knows because I called her last week. Boss wants to know what I expect him to do with the information -- he's offered to give my W the email I sent him, but is otherwise uncomfortable with getting involved.
The friend will, I think, eventually leak the information out... put it this way: she likes to talk.

Another factor here is that my W's emotional state is very questionable. I do believe she is suffering thru some level of depression, and she knows she's made a mess of her life. All she has left at this point is her job. Her well-being MUST be my #1 priority, regardless of how things work out between us. My point is, what is normally a HUGE LB (the BS exposing the A at work), in my case I consider it to be downright dangerous, and not worth the "calculated risk."
At least that's how I feel right now...

Another important factor here, I think, is the fact that the OM (according to OMXW) is hugely concerned with what the boss and everyone else thinks of him. Of course most people are, but he's off the charts in this regard.

So that's where my idea (which is admittedly kind of wimpy, at first glance) of an anonymous email to OM comes in:

1) it gives the OM a wake-up call, and tells him that the affair is public knowledge.

2) it appeals to OM's insecurity about boss's and others' opinion of him.

3) it avoids, at least a bit, a direct blow from me to my W, which would be the case if she knew I was the one exposing the affair to her co-workers/boss.

But...I don't know... the more I think about it, the less I like the idea.... guess it makes me nervous......

tqt,

Don't know the whole story, but it sounds like they are still in contact?

If so, I think the thinking is expose, expose!! Any exposure that will stop the contact. There can be no healing until the contact has ceased.

So I guess the OM and WW should be told.

How do you send an anonymous email?

Maybe a big note (anonymous), anouncing that the office knows, hanging on his office door and greeting him the first thing in the morning would do the trick. (after the rest of the office sees it)

Or spray painted on his car!! Just a thought.

Have you confronted the jerk yet? Does the family know?


k

Send that email to OM...send a polite one and not a nasty one...say that you want him to stop contacting your wife forever so you can heal your marriage etc etc. Tell OM that you have contacted their boss too.

Make the email short and polite so that if WW reads it she cannot complaint that it was a nasty one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Dont forget to confront OM...simply make it real for OM that you are here to stay...bring a buddy along to make it look intimidating... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just dont hurt the fella...you dont want to get into the bad books of your wife.

While you are doing all the exposing...keep up on plan A too.

Good luck

In the process of exposing the A, the (most?) important thing is that the A partners know that everyone ELSE knows, ie. it's no longer a secret.
Why is this important?
Everyone knows regardless of your wife and om knowing that it is public knowledge.
I wouldn't sweat it too much.

k,

They are definitely still in contact. Last weekend they went away for a long weekend together.

From things my W has said, other circumstances, etc. I think there's a reasonable chance that:

- OM is the pursuer in the R
- WW, as addicted to OM as she still may be, has started to figure out OM's motives are not altogether honorable
- WW has been unable (emotionally) to keep him at bay

WW's emotional state is questionable, so given all factors, I feel like targeting OM, rather than W.
HE can be the one to tell WW that the secret's out....

Only people left to tell are co-workers (W's friends at work). All family, other friends know.

What's the party line on BS (me) confronting the OM? When is it/isn't it advisable?

Why not send a signed message to OM expressing your desire that he back off from your wife pronto? In this message you express that there can be severe professional consequences for participating in inappropriate supervisor/employee conduct. That's after you express your desire to preserve your family and do the right things for all involved.

WAT

tqt,

What's the party line on BS (me) confronting the OM?

I like that.."the party line". I think there are probably many different lines on this.

I don't think the confrontation would be bad unless physical violence would ensue. That would be a bad thing.

It may accomplish 1) Letting him know you are here to stay and will be fighting for your W. 2) and letting your W know that you are fighting for her.

If he is a spineless little (!@#^&* then a confrontation might guide him onto another path.

OM's motives are not altogether honorable

Could you elaborate on this?

k

Chris,
If WW/OM are still merrily humming along, thinking their secret is intact, what impetus is there for them to stop?
Does that make sense, or no(?)

zizzy, WAT,
Guess I have to decide between:

1) anonymous email to OM, saying everyone knows about the A. This, in effect, provides the exposure, at least an important part of it.
and
2) an email from ME to OM, politely telling him I'm going to cut his legs off, er, I mean, telling him to stay away from my wife.
This makes the OM uncomfortable, I suppose, but doesn't take care of the exposure part.

I can't do both, of course. At least not at the same time.

The anonymity part comes in in an effort to avoid as much of the Major LB as possible when OM shows WW the email. She can guess it came from me if she wants, but....

I think I'm going to wait until day after tomorrow (Wed), because tomorrow's my birthday, and I'm VERY curious to see how WW handles it. It could be useful to see what she does (if anything).

Plan A continues, although I am getting resistance from WW.

I'm still on the fence about confronting OM in person. Will probably wait and see what results I get from the email.

WAT, regarding the supervisor/employee conduct thing, I probably wasn't clear... both WW and OM are at the same "level" in the organization, both reporting to president.

tqt,

WAT said consequences for participating in inappropriate supervisor/employee conduct.

This guy is her supervisor??!!

Wouldn't you like to retire early?

I am a commercial insurance broker. Companies have Employers Practices Liability insurance which protects the corporation against sexual harassment, discrimination, etc. from management taking advantage of the employees.

Run, do not walk, to the nearest attorney that specializes in this and tell him your story and see if he will pick up the case on a contingency basis. You could file a claim against the corporation for damages.

This could be a lever against the boss to at least get a little more involved. If he is looking at a threat of litigation from you, he should get a little more motivated.

I don't know if there is any case law on a kind of claim against the EPL insurance where a BS asks for damages because the corporation his W works for hired sexual preditors that pursue female employees even when they know they are married!

Also does your W still work there? And if so...why is that??

It is nice to be pro-active, yes?

k

EDITED TO READ..AFTER READING YOUR LATEST POST, NEVER MIND!!

(still might be something there to at least bluff the president)

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: krusht ]</small>

OM's motives are not altogether honorable

Could you elaborate on this?


That was a nice (why am I being nice?!!?!) way of saying I believe OM is in this "relationship" with my WW "for a good time" -- and not because he has a desire for any kind of serious relationship.
And my wife is NOT that kind of person.

I suggested to WW that she was being used, and that THAT made me @!%#*& angry -- her reply was "Maybe you're right."

tqt - OK, I was confusing you with another poster regarding the supervisor/employee issue.

Regardless, what employer wants their married employees boinking each other?

I recommend you communicate to OM that you are interested in maintaining your marriage and you have every intention of doing everything within your power to preserve it.

Don't "tell" him to stay away from your wife. "Expect" him to. Don't claim "everyone knows about the affair" or make a direct threat that you plan to expose it. Do insinuate that the choice to conduct an affair has its consequences.

Exposure to others is a separate matter. Do that, too. Soon. Expose to anybody who may be influential to either your wife or OM.

Why should you communicate directly to OM? Because he may have been told by your wife that you don't care, are filing for divorce, are already divorced, will soon be divorced, are having your own affair, are a psycho axe murderer - whatever! Secondly, doing so puts a reality check to some degree in his head. He may brush it off, but maybe it'll hit the few rational brain cells he has left.

Don't worry about this being an LB. Write your message to him EXPECTING you wife to see it. Include a few "I love her" statements and "I'll do what ever I can" statements to communicate to HER that you're willing to fight for her - figuratively speaking. Exposure is always a calculated LB - you cannot afford NOT to expose.

WAT

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT... thanks for the excellent advice.

If WW/OM are still merrily humming along, thinking their secret is intact, what impetus is there for them to stop?
What impetus is there to stop if they know that others know? How is it gonna be different than everyone already knowing?

They would probably quit being so sneaky about it and worry less about being caught. (re, less impact on the affair)
I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't know. I'm saying it is pretty much irrelevant.

<<If WW/OM are still merrily humming along, thinking their secret is intact, what impetus is there for them to stop?>>

What impetus is there to stop if they know that others know? How is it gonna be different than everyone already knowing?

They would probably quit being so sneaky about it and worry less about being caught. (re, less impact on the affair)
I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't know. I'm saying it is pretty much irrelevant.

Chris, you're confusing me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Here's what WAT told me a couple days ago, and it makes perfect sense to me:

You can also forget the boss for now if you choose. It's clear he/she won't do anything and the fact he/she knows is enough. The point here is not so much what others can do to end the affair, it's the removal of secrecy. To this end, you should not prevent him/her from revealing this to your wife - in fact, "exposure" doesn't happen until SHE knows others know. Understand?

Said another way, if I DO understand:

Affair exposed --> secrecy removed --> affair partners react (hopefully in the right direction)

If the A partners don't KNOW that the secrecy has been removed, there's nothing new introduced, and therefore nothing to react to.

WAT, if you have a minute, help me out here...

I think Chris may be focused on the confusion I also experienced from your first post on this thread that suggested both your wife and OM already know that everybody else knows about the affair.

You cleared this up in your response to my first question, but maybe Chris didn't see that. I think his point - like my "confused" response - is that if exposure has been accomplished and the affairees don't care, no sense in further exposure.

To clear this up - your W and OM think they've been successful in keeping the wool pulled over everybody's eyes, and they may be right. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another important factor here, I think, is the fact that the OM (according to OMXW) is hugely concerned with what the boss and everyone else thinks of him. Of course most people are, but he's off the charts in this regard.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ever see a cockroach scurry when the lights come on? I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you flip the switch. Do it soon. Write him a message as I suggested before if you want, but do not delay exposure beyond that.

WAT

Affair exposed --> secrecy removed --> affair partners react
The first two are correct but the 3rd one is not correct.
1 - Exposure has been done.
2 - Everyone knows. It is no longer a secret.
3 - These people who now know about the affair, choose NOT to do anything with this information. Telling your wife they know, will make them do what differently?

Again, it's not something you should hide from your spouse but telling her will probably not make much of a difference in the way she is being treated by others.
The effect of you telling her that everyone else knows is that she will get pissed at you, which will probably introduce more tension in the affair relationship.
But don't expect others to treat her differently simply because she knows that they know.

If the A partners don't KNOW that the secrecy has been removed, there's nothing new introduced, and therefore nothing to react to.
No, this is wrong. The new element introduced is everyone knows they are having an affair. The simply choose not to do anything about it because it's pretty awkward for them.
It may have an effect on them.

Tell her. Don't make a big production out of it.
MB is all about being honest and not telling her is keeping the truth from her.

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris - it appears that NO ONE knows they are having an affair.

WAT

okay.
If no one knows, they need to know.
And you should tell your wife that you are o longer keeping this a "secret".