Hi everyone, I have been reading posts now for over three years. Thats how long for D-day. WH moved in with OW for a year, came back when they broke up and started C again 3 weeks later. He got her another apartment, paid for her rent month after month but wouldnt leave our house. He kept saying that he wanted to stay. I told him that he would have to have NC with OW and to stop paying her rent. He would not have any part of that. At one point I put his belongings out on the porch so that he would take the hint. He just put them back into the spare room where he was sleeping. This went on for a whole year until the pressures from OW made him leave again. He has been gone another year. We have been back and forth to the lawyers and settlement is almost in place. But since he has been here for other holidays, he thinks now that every holiday, he can just waltz in and expect to sit at our family table. What makes it difficult is, I invite all of his brothers and sisters for holiday meals. It has been like that for 26 years of our marriage. They ARE my family. I have none of my own left. So I did not invite him this year because we are close to the divorce and I thought it would be a good idea to start realizing it is over and that he should not be welcomed at my table any longer. He wrote me an e-mail yesterday saying that it was HIS family that I was invited, and I had no right to keep him from coming. That he was going to come whether I liked it or not. Now I am not sure what to do. I only have one child out of four that wants and missing his dad... He is only 8 and doesnt understand the circumstances of his dad walking out on us. The older children know about it and have lost a lot or respect for their father. OW is married and has not even pursued divorce. What should I tell him. His siblings could care less if he came or not but are sick of him treating me like a doormat. I have been in Plan B again for over 7 months and accept for my fathers funeral, I havent seen him. What should I tell him? Help Please !!!!

Do you have sole ownership of the house? If you rent, are you the only one on the lease? What, if anything, is legally binding now, pre-divorce, that addresses his access to your home?

The answers to these questions determines whether you can legally deny him access to your home, and thus, keep him away for T-giving.

From a moral standpoint, you are spot on right that he has no business there, regardless of who else you invite. This is one of the consequences of his decision to behave as he has. Oh well.

Well, I have a lot of knee jerk reactions that would be considered love busters, but I would quietly and firmly tell him that unless he agrees to NC w/ the OW, and stops paying her rent and agrees to MC, then no way in H*ll would I let him come to Thanksgiving dinner. This holiday is for being thankful families, and he has proven by his actions that he is not a family man.

What's more, I'd continue Plan B w/ him unless and until he shows by his actions he is serious and committed to his wife and kids. He's just likely to be alone this holiday and I'm sure OW will be w/ her family, and he wants something to do and someone to feed him.

Unfortunately, I think you set yourself up for a lousy holiday. They are HIS family. You just happen to be part of the family circle. After 26 years, that is going to be a hard circle to break from during the holidays but, you may have to if you don't want to spend them with the WS.

You may have to start planning things with his family members *around* the holidays rather than *on* the holidays. Instead of trying to remain part of his entire family circle, try creating smaller circles with a few of his family members at a time and of course disclude him from those smaller get togethers. Find a private place to meet them such as a restaurant.

As far as being "invited" or not, it sounds like you are still working on a settlement. He still has as much right to walk into that house at any time as you do until there is a court order stating otherwise.

I can't stress enough the importance of temporary orders pending a divorce. They provide immediate child support and can dictate whether the WS can set foot on the property.

Personally, I feel that a court order should be part of every Plan B. It does not mean that divorce in imminent but, it sure provides a wake up call while protecting the BS in the process.

tell him you are inviting others as well then......

THE OW
HER HUSBAND
THEIR CHILDREN
THE OW'S MOTHER
THE OW'S FATHER
THE OW'S HUSBANDS MOTHER
THE OW'S HUSBANDS FATHER
AND ANY PETS THAT ANY OF THE ABOVE THEY MAY OWN

ASK YOUR WS TO BRING PLENTY OF WINE...

Then tell him that you will not have your holidays made a mockery of..
that there is nothing to be thankful about a man that brings so much pain and chaos in to his own spouses lives and his own childrens lives...
and in to his own life..
that thanksgiving is ALL about breaking bread with those that have great value and treat eachother as such..
and that you are done with all the chaos...


how long has plan b been
did you give him a plan b letter
and are in contact even while in plan b...

and call the police if he shows up....
and that he is NOT welcome....
he has not lived in your home again for a year...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ARK

<small>[ November 23, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Kathie, with just 17 posts over the years, I'm not sure what it is you really want from us. You've essentially been flying solo all this time and now it appears that you want some "magic band-aid" as to what to do with a husband who doesn't respect you or your feelings.

So I guess I'll just take a stab at it, but you are going to have to decide what you want to do.

I concur with Ark. You invite family and friends and whomever you want to invite. It's your house and it's your dinner.

Your husband seems to like the idea of a "free meal," so why not fix him up a special plate in case he is boorish enough to "just show up." Make it plate of CROW, not turkey, as it would seem to appropriate for his "taste." Throw in a little seasoned "ROAD KILL," carefully selected from the many varieties available.

If he shows up, EXPECT a confrontation. It is time (past time) for you to not put up with any of his shennanigans anymore. HE wanted out, now he can be ALL the way out. I, personally, wouldn't care if he "exploded" in front of everyone. YOU remain calm and simply explain that HE chose to abandon the family and HE was not invited. He can LIVE with his choices, but you have decided to love and be friends with people YOU choose, not who he might choose.

Have you had any conversations with the OW's husband? If not, why not? Where is Mistress OW spending HER holiday? Could it be that your husband can't have her all to himself?

Last but not least, serve him a desert of that infamous cake that gets passed around every holiday but never eaten....you know the one....while everyone else has pumpkin or mincemeat or pecan pie.

"Love must be tough" is way overdue.

God bless and I hope that you have a good holiday despite your husband's antics.

I'd consider the option of moving the dinner to another's home. You do the cooking, just have it at another's home. C/b the start of a new tradition. Maybe a relative that would appreciate learning how to cook a big meal and then share it with you when presenting it to the family. Kinda like doing 2 good things at the same time.

If that is the case, let the WS know when he can come over the house and you all make sure you are out of there before taht time. That w/b a wake up call. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

L.

Wow...what really great responses !!!
I am overwhelmed with the insight here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's just likely to be alone this holiday and I'm sure OW will be w/ her family, and he wants something to do and someone to feed him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are good points to all the above.

By the way...was the A ever exposed to the OWH ?

All this sounds very funky.

Take action, be PROACTIVE..don't wait for him to show up. Move the dinner..period. If you don't ...then he gets what he wants. Period..and you have little control.

How long as he been living outside of the household ?

Does he have his own mailing address and his own legal address ?

This would be sufficient in many cases to establish his rights in the home. It is a marital asset, but place of residence, plays a big roll legally as well. I.E. Abandonment.

ForeverHers - really good post! Sounds like something I wish I had written.

WAT

In light of the other posts, if you do decide to move the dinner, you can set a box for him on the front porch with his meal in it. Paper or plastic plate, wrapped up in foil, tuckin in a zip lock bag is a nice touch. Don't forget the plastic utensils. He may have to get his own drink.

Oh before I forget, put is all in a box with his name boldly written on it. Others from the street may see it and wonder what it contains. A few curious neighbors may even venture to see the meal in a box. Part of what a WS likes.....lots of attention and good food, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The BS is in a sort of plan A with this method but still driving home an important message. What's he gonna do, complain you didn't feed him? No, you did that. Now his next complaint may include others and that will take some of the stress off of you.

The point is that he can have a meal but he may have to eat is alone. You'd be giving him the time he kept crying he needed (the need to be alone and think).....well now he gets time to think and the tasty meal will remind him of what else he is missing.

JMHO, again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

pS: If he asks why the dinner was moved, just say you needed help and someone was kind enough to offer their home to help out. Oh yea, you needed help with carving the turkey also.

<small>[ November 23, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I'd tell him to bring the OWs dog to be the official 'taster'...and wait awhile to see if the dog is "OK" before he eats it....

can we just skip the public service announcement that no animals were actually harmed or poisoned in this post...

ARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks everybody for their input. I really do have a feeling that that H is just going to show up. He has a selfish streak (thats obvious) and he usually does what he wants anyway. I am pretty sure that OW is going to her family and since they do not approve of their relationship(both being married to other people) it will be uncomfortable for him. I doubt she is eating with her husband. He does not see much of her anymore. Yes, I have been in contact with him from almost the beginning of their A. We even had planned statergies to break up the A and I even bought him the SAA book !!

so pookie...

what is YOUR plan...

what is YOUR plan when he shows up..

if you set a place then you condone his actions and his chaos...

plan B...
no breaking bread together...

what is YOUR plan...

ARK

Can you discreetly enlist the help of one of WH's relatives?

Hi Pookie4,

I haven't read the complete thread but if the family is aware of what is going on, wouldn't it be possible to celebrate at someone elses house.

If he comes to the house for Thanks-giving, your house will simply be empty! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This way you will save yourself alot of pain.

take care
bb

Hey, maybe you could all act like the Amish do when they (scorn?) someone. If he shows up make sure there are not enough chairs around the table and then ignore him, actually turn your back to him if he speaks. Eventually he will either blow up and you can have a good old fashioned family thanksgiving with everyone "getting it all out", or he will leave.

When my daughter was a toddler and someone she didn't care for walked by she would close her eyes until they moved on, and if they started talking she would close her eyes until they stopped talking (she did this to a particular BIl at every family gathering). Try it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Nawwww, weaver. She can't do this. Or leave the doggie bag out, either. Let's get realistic: with his family there, someone will break down and let the dog in. They cannot stand by and watch WH be insulted, no matter how much he deserves it.

I say: move the venue, as others have suggested. Maybe with a good, face-saving excuse to WH's relatives: "The plumbing is broken in my house; let's move to yours. I'll still do the cooking."

Of course, with this you face an additional problem: WH's family might tell WH where the party is, and he shows up THERE. And they won't refuse him.

How about change the time at your house? Dinner at 2 instead of 4? At least when he shows up, you'll be doing the dishes. Or change the time AND the venue?????

I suppose you do have a point, AM.

Hey maybe she could plan on depositing a large amount of exlax into his eggnog. I bet he won't be wanting to partake in anymore of her cooking events after that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Very large thread-jack . . . sorry. The Amish are near and dear to me.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong> Hey, maybe you could all act like the Amish do when they (scorn?) someone. If he shows up make sure there are not enough chairs around the table and then ignore him, actually turn your back to him if he speaks. Eventually he will either blow up and you can have a good old fashioned family thanksgiving with everyone "getting it all out", or he will leave.

When my daughter was a toddler and someone she didn't care for walked by she would close her eyes until they moved on, and if they started talking she would close her eyes until they stopped talking (she did this to a particular BIl at every family gathering). Try it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amish don't scorn people, Old Order Amish do, on occasion, shun a member of their sect that is behaving badly. This might help.

"Do the Amish practice shunning fellow church members?

The term church members means those who are baptized as adults and voluntarily commit themselves to a life of obedience to God and the church. Yes, those who break their baptismal vows are shunned by the Old Order Amish. Belonging is important and shunning is meant to be redemptive. It is not an attempt to harm or ruin the individual and in most cases it does bring that member back into the fellowship again. Actually, the number of members excommunicated and shunned by the Amish is small.

The Biblical basis for shunning is found in these two verses:

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner -- not even to eat with such a one (I Corinthians 5:11)

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and of fences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (Romans 16:17)
The families of a shunned member are expected to also shun them. Families shun the person by not eating at the same table with them. The practice of shunning makes family gatherings especially awkward."

This may be a bit radical, but...

Cancel the dinner and take the kids out to a nice restaurant.

You can tell his relatives why the dinner is being canceled: and they can be pissed at him.

Or you can simply inform them that something came up and - unfortuantely, you can't have them over.

Of course, you are going to have a whole lot of food that needs to be cooked. So...make a nice meal for you and the kids the next day. And then go visiting and take a plate to all of those who WOULD have been your guests.