Happy Thanksgiving All!

Something that I am having a problem with right now is the fact that my kids are still in the dark about why there parents are divorcing. When I was trying to save my M and we were counseling together it was thought best to leave the specifics out when talking to the kids about what was going on. I agreed with that at the time.

Well it's been two years now and with the D being carried forward I was wondering if I shouldn't be more forthcoming with them about all that has happened. I feel like they have a right to know, and I know that they wonder because they still ask me why occasionally. I feel like I'm avoiding there question when I say it's because your Mom and I decided we just couldn't live together anymore. I feel like I'm trying to sweep it all under the rug and hide it from them. It's a heavy cloud hanging over the family, I can really feel it at times.

My oldest kids know that there was more going on but since I've handled it this way up to this point they have stopped grilling me about it. But it's still lying underneath the surface. I can feel it from them at times, they want to ask but know that I will give them the same non-answer.

I know that there is a respectful way to do this so my STBXW doesn't come out looking terrible. I would include her in the conversation of course (if she is willing, which I believe she would be). Isn't it about time we all had this conversation?

starman, there is no way to tell them and have your wife come out looking respectful. You realize this, don't you? She should not come out looking respectful for doing something so disrespectful and disgraceful. It should be addressed in a RESPECTFUL manner, though.

Just lay the facts out [not in great detail] and make sure they understand that you acknowledge that affairs are wrong. They must know that you know and acknowldge right from wrong or they will be morally confused. Don't do that to your kids.

I am not saying you should trash her, but I would make it very clear that she has done a very bad thing and you are divorcing because she has had an affair.

Anything less than that is dishonest at worst and morally confusing at best. They have to be taught right from wrong and if this is not pointed out to them when their own parents do wrong, they will be very confused and insecure about their own world.

I don't know how old your kids are, but most kids over 8-9 can understand the concept of marital fidelity.

If your W can tell them truth in an honest manner, I would include her in on the conversation, otherwise I would leave her out. Your kids have been through enough without having to suffer the indignity of having the truth SPUN in order to make your wife look like Joan of Arc, as some remorseless WS' are prone to do.

This article does not address your situation specifically, but it might give you some ideas: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

Starman, I told my HIGHLY INTUITIVE 11 YO daughter that one of Mommy's Karate friendships had become very inappropriate and Mommy and I were working out how to make it appropriate again.
I also pointed out (in truth) that my MIL being very ill was making Mommy sad and behave strangely.

My son, 7, I told just that mommy was sad about a friendship and about nanny and needed our support and love. Remember Squid was behaving dreadfully to them at this time. I had to tell them something.

DD was fine with this. Whatever you say DO NOT LIE ! Kids have bullsh1t detectors fitted. Dilute it like I did or deliver the message in some other way but DO NOT LIE.

In your case, I would just deliver the facts in an unemotional manner. Poor tykes will be smashed up anyway, they need the truth to back them up I guess.

Sorry for your sitch SM. Very sorry.

<small>[ November 25, 2004, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Thanks for the input. You're right ML, presenting it respectfully and and trying to have my W come out of this looking respectful are two different things. That's just the painful truth.

My oldest two boys are 14 and 13. My third boy is 11, and the girls are 9 and 4. I know in my heart that my oldest boy knew there was something going on. I could see it in his eyes the way he would look at me when he would ask me things and I would answer in such an obscure way. He saw too many things not to know something and has not talked about it much at all since that time.

Thanks Bob. I can at least address it now without getting too emotional and letting my own feelings show through too much.

Coming back to this site made me realize how much time has actually passed since this all started. It goes by so fast to me, but it's not the same with the kids. As they prepare to go spend some time with there Mom these questions are going to be coming up in their heads again I'm sure. I don't think we should be trying to hide the truth from them anymore.

Starman,

Add my voice to the chorus of the above posters.

Do let them know though, that getting a divorce is NOT a punishment against their mother but a way of moving on with your life. Convey to them that you harbor no hatred for their mother and that you wish her a happy and healthy life. They may not fully comprehend your graciousness towards her at this moment, but when they grow up they will understand and will respect you for it.

TMCM

Threadjack coming Starman....sorry (but I'm going to do it anyway) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OK Mel, OM has introduced his boys 10 & 12 to WW already. I know she wants to reciprocate and feel out how their big happy (Binder vomits into mouth a little) family will look. I've told her this should not to happen! I have no legal recourse to stop it. What do I tell them, or at least my 7-year-old, then? I will not have him thinking it is OK to "date" while married. My 3 yr. Old obviously can’t grasp it.

I like Bob's idea about "anything I can lift and swing" to discourage the OM from doing so, but that has serious legal/professional repercussions for me. It also is not the example I want my children to see either. I’m willing to go well beyond “Marriage Building” with this as I’m doubtful I would be able to forgive this transgression. I will very seriously consider initiating divorce procedures upon this taking place.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Sorry again Starman.

Binder, I would tell the 7 year old that mommy is in an inappropriate relationship. Explain to her that married people are not supposed to date other people and mommy, while we do love her, is doing a very bad thing.

For God's sake, please don't sit there silently and act normal about this. I cannot tell you how devastating that is to children. They SENSE that it is wrong and if no one validates that, they grow to doubt themselves and become very confused.

I was depressed most of my childhood because I figured I must be a "stupid girl" because things that didn't seem right to me were deemed right by others. When my father took me to hotel rooms or bars to meet his latest affair partner, it was very confusing to me and caused great self doubt.

The moral confusion I felt as a child was devastating to me, it was like someone STOLE REALITY from me and I just could not make any sense out of life! I was never taught right from wrong and had to learn it on my own when I grew up. That is THE most important responsibility of parents!

This is a touch topic because each child takes things diffrently. I have a 12 year old and a 10 yr old that immediatly knew something was up with Mommy and daddy. My youngest is 5 and he does not understand everything. And to get right to the point on this, My two oldest children took what there mother did very hard and it has changed there relationship at this time, My children have very little respect for there mother and what she has done, My children see what she did as not only cheating on Dad but cheating and lying to them and children are less forgiving then us BS. My daughter even sat and broke down in tears to my ww begging her to stop hurting her with this A and while my ww is still in the fog she did not shed a tear or show any remorse for what she is doing to them. and that is part of the sickness.

No matter how you tell your children, they will form there own thoughts on the matter, so be gentle and show no hate or ill feelings for your ws when you tell them.

I'm struggling with this myself. My son at home knew pretty much without being told. He knew there was OW. My 11 year D is mad. She doesn't know about OW. Said if Dad goes to "work" on Christmas Eve she's going to be really MAD. The kids know that he's not here, physically or emotionally.

Will the fog ever lift?

Carol,

The fog will only lift once he has given up this Ow and has dealt with the withdrawal period and has had zero contact. Are you still in Plan A strongly...


Starman,

Stay strong for your children and let them know that you will always be by there side and that if you and your spouse should seperate it's only because of how much you love your spouse. I told my children that Mommy is really sick right now and that we have to Love and help her through this, even when they are at there worst about what she has done, they find the time to hug and love her.

* edited *

I told OM I would not allow him to play daddy to my kids.

He believed me and avoided my kids even before the A was over.

I meant it. Still do.

<small>[ November 25, 2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Starman,

My situation is much different. My boys were at Karate class (9 and 11) and on the way home their mother told them that she and I were getting a divorce. I in the mean time was being escorted throughout my home gathering the items I needed to survive as her lawyer finally found a judge to sign off on an order of protection, serve me with a divorce action and a court date one week later. I have locked all of my divorce papers, depositions, filings, etc. in my safe so my children NEVER see them. All I ever told them was it had NOTHOING TO DO WITH THEM. The next year was full of turmoil. My youngest son constantly harassed her for details telling her that he "knew it was her fault", She was a "mean person" and "I don't want to live with you either". My position with him was that those comments were hurtful and totally unacceptable. I decided that my children will never know that their mother exaggerated the situation in order to get custody of the boys and the house. In fact they went to 3 JUDGES!!! and the same judge that finally signed it admonished her attorney in court for her filing as there was no basis or merit (In this day and age if a woman testifies that her husband will hurt her for filing a divorce an order is usually signed, I do not blame them for signing it...too many woman get killed by their "lover") for the action. My XW was TOSSED from the house so I could have some dignity. My children do not need to know this. My XW told them it was her fault 6 months later. Little details.
Now that we're in the process of reconciling her affair was disclosed as the main reason for "not loving me any more" She had it all finished before she even told me that. It had everything to do with the final 5 years of hell that my boys and I went through with her and her guilt...and I strongly believe that they do not ever need to know any of this. She is their mother.....and she loves me now…after the nightmare she created….....she screwed up....for a long time....and now I need to forgive….and I can’t…but I always loved her..never wanted the divorce…

I have no plan A yet. The fog is too thick and recent. If I set an ultimatum, he'd be out the door. For whatever reason, I think having WH in the house at this point is better than away. Of course, I wonder if half the reason he's here is because we're only 5 minutes from his work as opposed to over an hour from her house of inquity.

I'm taking every day at a time. I'm in the exposure part now. We'll see what happens when his parents talk with him.

Carol,
I don't feel I am qualified to give advice, just relay my experience. My children were 20 and 18 during the A. We informed them together that we were having some difficulties, and were trying to work them out. We felt that we were not prepared to give details at that time, as H had not yet decided if he was going to stay and work on M or leave to be with O.W. He did decide to stay and work on the M., informed O.W. that it was over (although no N.C. letter yet), and at that time, confessed to the children what he had done. They hated him for a while, but, over the ensuing months, regained respect while witnessing him work at rebuilding what he had so badly damaged. We told them about M.B. and the principles involved as we felt that they are old enough to understand them and hopefully learn from them before they find themselves (hopefully WAY down the road) in a position to be married. In our case, I appreciated the fact that my husband was willing to tell them about the A. Although I was in a great deal of pain, I did not want them to experience my pain through my explanation of the situation. Don't get me wrong - they did see my pain. Just not my anger toward and initial hatred of their father. Although there were many moments of hopelessless (it took him a year to get through withdrawl) I wanted to trust that if we applied the M.B. principles as close as absolutely possible, our M would survive, and the children, although informed, would not be casualties. All I can say in the way of suggestion is - Whatever the ws says during fog and withdrawl will be almost unbelievable. If he gets through withdrawl, he wont even believe what he said. Take everything he says about his "feelings" with a grain of salt, apply M.B. principles to the letter, and take one day at a time. Hang in there, and use this site regularly. It really helps. Rev.

I think it is important to be honest about the reasons why this has happened. The truth is we would not be going through a D right now if it wasn't for her A's. Even my STBXW acknowledges that.

No offense taken Binder. That was the most emotional part of this for me too. When my W moved in with the OM she kept wanting to bring the kids over there to spend time with her and meet him. I absolutely refused this and looking back on it still think it's the most selfish, harmful thing a parent could do to there kids. It's such an absurdly stupid idea that it would be comical if it wasn't so serious.

Carol,

Plan A has nothing to do with altimatums, it has to do with stopping the A at all costs and giving yourself a deadline for when you will move to Plan B.. Plan A is not something you show or tell your ws about, I made that mistake and have quickly recovered for my blunder. If you have not read SAA or anything on Plan A and Plan B I suggest you do. Plan A is all about helping you while they are in the fog and learning to make yourself the attractive one. I was given some very strong advice on my thread and I have followed it and am amazed at the slight change in my ww..

I set up some flowers on the table and when she came home she asked about them, I told her I was driving by a flower shop when I noticed how they reminded me of her beauty and felt the need to get them. She looked at me with a look of wonder and walked away. I went about whistling atune and playing with the kids and doing my own things. I came downstairs about an hour or so later and she was looking at the flowers and crying, I asked her what was wrong and she said that they were very beautiful flowers and that it hurts her knowing she has hurt all of us..

So once again I say Plan A, Plan, A Plan A

I will pray for you tonight..

Hi starman,

I'll add my 2 cents in here and say that for about 6 months,I didn't tell my girls anything about the A.I didn't want them to know the reason why daddy and mommy were having some trouble and I didn't want them to know why mommy was crying a lot other than that daddy had made some bad decisions that hurt mommy,etc.

Some people here know that I wanted to shelter them from the disgusting and sordid facts of the A and at the time,I was living with my girls alone(SAHM) while my WH was living and working 7 hours away while he periodically saw the homewrecker who worked at another company.

But,when I made the decision to file since WH refused to work on the marriage and give up the homewrecker(plus 2 false recoveries),I decided it was time to let them know a little of what was going on.Not gory details.I told them alone,without my WH.He was mad of course but it was my decision,and feeling,at the time,that this man gave up his rights to us the way he had been used to after making the decision to cheat.He admitted that he was ready to start a new life where he was and I was left with a shattered world and two children who didn't understand.IMO he forfeited all rights to have any discussion about what HE did.In fact,I knew that he would try and mislead them and paint himself in a better picture so as not to look badly in their eyes.And,I was in no shape at all to sit side by side and have this kind of talk.The girls and I had been talking about the situation as a threesome all the time WH was away anyway.

So,I told them very basic information.Daddy has a "girlfriend" and that it was very wrong when you are already married.That the homewrecker(OW) is also wrong for being involved with a married man and that no one in both our families will ever accept this person.That daddy is confused and isn't making good decisions.Daddy and mommy still love you both very much and that there was NOTHING they could have done to change what happened.It wasn't their fault.It was purely a bad and hurtful CHOICE made by daddy,etc,etc.

So now,my oldest(12)still interacts with the WH but the relationship has definitely changed.They used to be best pals and daddy/daughter but now that is stained.My youngest(10) is very clingy to WH when he visits and has had the worst time of it.Lots of sleeplessness,nightmares,walking in her sleep,fear of abandonment issues,anxiety,self esteem drop,etc.Of course,I want to take the homewrecker off this planet for doing this to my children.I know my WH is all to blame as well but if she stopped dropping her pants and my WH stopped being selfish then maybe my girls wouldn't be hurting.

Anyway,suffice it to say,I am doing everything in my power to make their home lives as loving,safe,secure and calm as I can.At the very least,they can expect that this will never change and I will NEVER let my WH ruin that too.

O

P.S. To my knowledge,my WH hasn't spoken to the girls about this at all,or,if he did,only a couple of questions.He is not allowed to talk about the homewrecker (or I will go ballistic),he knows this and has so far kept to his word about that as far as I know.NO ONE in both families wants to hear one word about the homewrecker and WH knows it so he doesn't try.

<small>[ November 26, 2004, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>