I have read many posts here the last week or so and have identified with many of the men that have shared here.

I sense their pain and feel my own. I am really wondering if continuation of my M is worth it.

I have been kissing butt for almost 2 months now. Some of it has even started to be done in a healthy manner (damn us humans for the ability to learn).

I just don't know. She tells me that she is not attracted to me like she used to be. I hear that, we both put on a lot of pounds during/after the pregnancy of our child. She has lost her weight and I have not. This sounds like her biggest problem with me at the moment.

She also continually tells me that she is not sure if things could work out because we have been so damaged both before and during her A.

So anyway, we are at her parents place for the holidays and we went out socially together for the first time in many, many months. It started out uncomfortable but after a few hours I chucked the strain and had fun and let her know it.

So after I start letting go she keeps asking me if she can call OM. Finally it happens and to make a long story short another 4 hour drama session starts. Unfortunately I allow myself to play in the drama also (damn beer). She promised me 3 weeks ago that the drama was over.

After spending a semi-distant day and evening last night I realized that a huge withdrawl has been taken from her love bank. Today I wonder if I want her to make anymore deposits.

I am so tired of the A and repeatedly starting the withdrawl process again.

I only want her to do what she has been telling me she would do and with the continual deciet and lying and my belief that she is telling him one thing and telling me that she is telling him something else and then telling me something completely different.

So in the end I am having a hard time seeing that Plan A's are worth it. I am really beginning to wonder after 7 weeks of hell if I should just move on.

And I have some fear that WW will end up seeing these posts but care less and less and maybe even want her to see.

I think I am starting to develop the ability to just shut off and act as if things don't bother me. Something she seems to be able to do with ease.

Hi baby, I love you! What are we going to do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

What has your Plan A effort taught you about yourself? Your strengths and weaknesses and areas of avoidance?

Pep

I have discovered that I am probably ADD and am for sure passive agressive.

I have learned that I have lived my life in my marriage as a passive control freak. I have learned that I have not learned enough to have acted in my marriage with emotional maturity.

I have learned that I must be true to myself and that I need myself in my life.

I have learned that I do not need my wife, but that I choose her.

I have learned that I want to ignore what is going on but can not and will not.

I have learned that I have not done the right things to learn her EN in the passed.

I have learned and owned and admited that I have caused much pain for her.

I have learned that I am mature enough to realized that my bad behaviour plays a 50% share in our unhappiness.

I have learned that I am mature enough to make things right for myself and for her if she wants it.

I have developed belief that she is more willing to loose me than OM. This leads to confusion because of how she has started treating me.

I have learned that my stamina decreases greatly with every drama session and with every day she avoids the no contact and no secrets rules.

I have learned that every day my foot gets closer to the door.

I have learned that I have not learned enough yet and that I am vigilant for the next realization about myself to become clear.

I have learned that I love myself and need to learn to better protect myself in all realtionships intimate and otherwise.

I have learned that I talk to much LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Greergan,

Plan A isn't about "kissing butt"... it's about making yourself into a better husband.

Your W's statements are typical foggy talk from a WS that wants to keep up the M and the A... She's a cake eater and a fence sitter... Have you exposed the A to the OM's wife?

From your sigline, it appears that you and your W are only a month or so past D-Day.... Are you both in MC? If not, that would be the first thing that I'd suggest that you do... find a good pro-marriage MC and start going.

Rebuilding your M isn't going to happen over night... you are going to have many ups and downs... that's why MC is so important. A good, pro-marriage MC will help you and your W focus on the issues that you both need to address and keep you from chasing each other around in circles.

Semper Fi,
RIF

I have also learned that I have the ability to listen when I make myself do it.

I have learned that I can hear what is being said to me about my bad behaviours and that I can admit that what she says about how I am acting is true. (This one earned me a very nice hug yesterday)

I found out about the A 2 hours before she told me. She only told me I think because OMW was going to try to get in contact with me.

OMW and I have talked several times a weeks since this all started.

I have been to 2 MC sessions (went with the intent of getting personal counseling but the MC hijacked my intent.

He told me to invite her to the next session but she declined. She has committed to the next session on Dec. 10th but that seems like years away.

I know this is not about kissing butt and that it is a time for me to do my own work as a person and as a husband. I guess I said that before because I am just tired and have not learned to have enough patience with myself or her or our situation.

I am just really tired at 7 weeks passed D-Day.

I guess I should say in defence of WW that she seems to be more resiliant in her comitment to finish the A every time a drama scene is over.

She just says that she has to phaze OM out on her terms, then she says why can't we all just be friends? On her craziest days she says can't we all just live together?

She is the one that found 'His Needs, Her Needs' even though I judge that she is frustrated because I jumped right into the book and have wanted to follow Harley's advice to a T.

She has started being the one that initiates affection or asks for a kiss or for me to hold her at night. And although there have been no ILY's today she has been the one very often to say it first.

I guess I am foggy too LOL.

All I really know for sure is that I am feeling less like initiating any affection or ILY's and feeling less warm inside when she initiates. That is how I am affected after a drama session.

greergan
7 weeks is not long though you probably have found it a life time. At around 7 weeks my H was still considering if he would divorce me and I was not helping. Didn't have contact issues just telling the truth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It is not uncommon for your WW to break NC, but it takes her right back to D day + 1 every time. What this does is also destroy your love. Obviously its happening to you right now.

HAve you exposed the affair to her parents, the OM's partner, workplace etc etc ?? As contact has not stopped this SHOULD be done. YES she will be angry but its because you have exposed HER behaviour.

You did not say if you are seeing a MC, are you?
If not perhaps you may want to speak to Steve Harley here via phone, you can book a session with him via this MB site.
I feel you may need such expertise because from your post I gather you are about ready to bolt, or kick her out, one or the other, am I right?

Steve Harley is well known for these I'm just about outa here type of situations BUT you need to read the A & B plans, POJA etc etc here so you will know what he is talking about.

He may be able to advise what to do from here if you feel its all but over for you.

I'm about half way through SAA and what I found to be most interesting is that Plan A is about you and ending the A. You can't force your ww to end her A you have to set a date in your mind when you will go to Plan B to save the love you do have for her. Explain to her that your there for her and that you understand what she is going through, fill her love bank with " I will always stand by your side" My ww is going on day 11 of nc and she is just now starting to come out of the fog a little. A good Plan A will take you six months and as SH say's everytime she has contact it sets the clock back to zero. You have to explain to your ww how hurt you are in a respectful non judgemental way and that you will not live like this. Stop telling her you love her and just act like nothing she does bother's you. Trust me i'm still working on that one. You will have your days when you drop the LB's and thats ok as long as you realize it and recover quickly with an apology, one that is meant. If you do not have the Book SAA i recommend you getting it. Currently my wife went out to the library and got a book called " how to feed your husband" I still make the mistake of dropping lb's but i'm getting better at it. Love is a choice not to be taken lightly. Have faith in your M and your WW she is going through a very tough time and the more you stand by her side the more you will fill that love bank. My ww has cried on my shoulder over her loss of om and it kills me but I suck it up and tell her that when I married her, I married her for better or for worse, well we all know an A is the worse. I also found that I will get out of my marriage what I put into it. If I put anger I get anger back, if I put mis-trust then I get mis-trust. So now I put lots of love and compliments and support and it seems to be paying off. As one vet told me... THIS IS NOT A SPRINT IT'S A MARATHON SO PACE YOURSELF FOR THE LONG HAUL.

I hope my advice helps, i'm not a vet but I am a loving husband in pain as well. also expect setbacks don't let them ruin where you are in life, just reset the clock and try again. I gave my ww 6 months and then I go to Plan B and so far she seems to be on target with nc.

I wish you the best of luck

Yes her parents know. Her dad even asked me yesterday how we are doing and noted that he though we are doing better. I told him it is still rough.

OM family knows and I have heard that they will disown him if he leaves his W.

I have seen MC twice now with the next appointment on Dec. 10th.

I can not afford to call Dr. Harley even though I really really want to.

And yes, today I am more ready to skip Plan B and restart my life with out her.

Greergan,


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And yes, today I am more ready to skip Plan B and restart my life with out her </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is Plan B without the letter.

Well, we had a pretty nice 5 hour drive home. We were holding hands and chatting.

Maybe it is just that I have lost another layer of my own crap instead of being ready to hit the door.

Today feels different, even so I still melt when I look at her and I still get butterflies when she does/says something nice to/for me. Our interactions seem to be getting more balanced and probably more balanced than before the A.

Ok then, I still love her with all my heart and still choose her to be my life partner.

I am not a patient person which I know I need to change.

I feel like she is loving me better most every day and even after this last drama session I feel like things are more out in the open.

So I guess all things considered 7 weeks is not that long, especially since most of that time she has been working on getting herself to the point of NC.

It is like me and smoking. I have quit many times only to start again a few days/weeks later. I have even smoked on a couple of days this month after stopping on the 8th.

So to be clear, I still love my wife and still choose her as my life partner.

Baby, tell me what you want when you are ready. I will be waiting for you.

Geergan,

There are sometimes that I also feel like a doormat when doing a Plan A. Basically I'm just trying to show her that I can be strong through this and not do any LB's and give compliments and still feel like a man inside.

I admit that I'm not seeing anything coming from my WW but I still have hope. I just remember that the Plan A is to stop the A that's it!

I am feeling less and less like a door mat as the days go by. I have been lucky in that I have seen allot from WW since and including D-Day. I just knew what her decision is going to be.

I believe that she will never be able to be romantically involved with OM. He is one of those sex sick women charmers. The kind of worm that women who's husbands don't show enough love to get hooked by. The kind of worm that other men can spot a mile away. Hell, even before I met my wife I told him off at a company happy hour....told him to keep is 'tool' in his pants because he gives men a bad name.

The point is that I know she will never be with him. I also know that he will never let it just be friends.

These things seem to be in my favor but WW is in fear of us getting back together and committed again and then one day I just don't show up at home after work.

I guess I should really not complain because things for me/us have moved very quickly. It seems that we are ahead of the average time line in getting to recovery. I guess that is good, but I get impatient because I can almost taste the really good times that could be in the future.

I can really relate to your wife’s fear about you just not turning up one night & the next thing find you have moved out.

I think I still fear it myself despite what all tell me from the people here on MB to my IC/MC to family, I guess I am having trouble understanding how my H can forgive me.

And now I fear I will tie him to me when he wants out.
See I assumed he will want out everyone’s says he doesn't so I guess its me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Please understand these fears are very real for us FWW. I think you wife is going through the first part of that which for me was almost wanting him to go because there was no way he will/could forgive me in the long term. It seemed less painful for that to happen now rather than later.

Maybe her fears may explain some of her reactions to your quite reasonable requests. Are you trying to use the POJA method on decision making? My H tried for quite a while to get me involved enough to do this. Afraid we don't make it easy.

At least you seem so much more fixed in your own mind about staying and riding it out. Thats really good. She WILL fail every now & then, just be prepared for that & its not wrong for you to tell her that her actions are hurting your love for her and hurting you personally when she does this.
Its the manner thats important. Keep it firm clear simple & polite ...... even if you do feel like yelling at her.

You're doing ok greergan, keep to the MB principles & you have a reasonable chance to get a NEW m where both of you are committed and know each others EN's, hey I might too you know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> I'm about half way through SAA and what I found to be most interesting is that Plan A is about you and ending the A. You can't force your ww to end her A you have to set a date in your mind when you will go to Plan B to save the love you do have for her. Explain to her that your there for her and that you understand what she is going through, fill her love bank with " I will always stand by your side" My ww is going on day 11 of nc and she is just now starting to come out of the fog a little. A good Plan A will take you six months and as SH say's everytime she has contact it sets the clock back to zero. You have to explain to your ww how hurt you are in a respectful non judgemental way and that you will not live like this. Stop telling her you love her and just act like nothing she does bother's you. Trust me i'm still working on that one. You will have your days when you drop the LB's and thats ok as long as you realize it and recover quickly with an apology, one that is meant. If you do not have the Book SAA i recommend you getting it. Currently my wife went out to the library and got a book called " how to feed your husband" I still make the mistake of dropping lb's but i'm getting better at it. Love is a choice not to be taken lightly. Have faith in your M and your WW she is going through a very tough time and the more you stand by her side the more you will fill that love bank. My ww has cried on my shoulder over her loss of om and it kills me but I suck it up and tell her that when I married her, I married her for better or for worse, well we all know an A is the worse. I also found that I will get out of my marriage what I put into it. If I put anger I get anger back, if I put mis-trust then I get mis-trust. So now I put lots of love and compliments and support and it seems to be paying off. As one vet told me... THIS IS NOT A SPRINT IT'S A MARATHON SO PACE YOURSELF FOR THE LONG HAUL.

I hope my advice helps, i'm not a vet but I am a loving husband in pain as well. also expect setbacks don't let them ruin where you are in life, just reset the clock and try again. I gave my ww 6 months and then I go to Plan B and so far she seems to be on target with nc.

I wish you the best of luck </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

greergan,

You may want to convey to your WW in a calm, quiet and respectful way that her fear will become a reality if she continues contacting the OM, and that by the time she finally achieves NC [no contact], it might be too little too late for you.

TMCM

aussieswife,

Thanks very much for your posts. I of course appreciate everyone's stuff but hearing from you really does help me stay sane.

I am judging that she is not in the early part of wanting me to leave her. I think she was there since D-Day and only wanted to proceed with OM because of her guilt (I could be wrong about this, if I am right she might not see it that way).

She started trying the NC about 3 weeks passed D-Day and at the same time has been trying to make me leave.

I have never seen her so vicious toward me even though we have not gotten along very well for a long time. Even her guilt rage while the EA was secret was not as bad as some of the things she has tried on me to get me out the door since D-Day.

Every time NC comes up (usually after some kind of drama session) it seems to get easier for her to understand and accept that NC is what it will take to have the chance to see if we can make things work out. OF course every drama session drains me, but I am not ready to hit the door and always bounce back and let her know that I am not leaving without a fight and that she will have to be the one to move forward with legal issues (even though I have already filed, but am holding papers).

POJA will be the next thing that I try to introduce to her. She is still somewhat resistant about working together. Even so, she asked me if I had been posting here and has read atleast some of this thread. Who knows maybe we will hear from my gorgeous wife in here some time soon.

So thanks to all for the support. It helps keep me strong enough to keep learning and understanding and moving forward with my life (now if I could just get a reliable direction LOL).

Hi ya baby, remember you don't have to play nice with me but you do have to play nice with the other children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> greergan,

You may want to convey to your WW in a calm, quiet and respectful way that her fear will become a reality if she continues contacting the OM, and that by the time she finally achieves NC [no contact], it might be too little too late for you.

TMCM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do my best to follow MB principals when we talk about NC. She knows that I will not be able to wait around for NC forever.

I think she is deciding if she can trust my professed love for her. I think that she still wants to be friends with OM (even though he is making even that much hard for her) and does not want to do NC unless she is positive that I would give and take life for her. I would!

Then I think about it all and feel like it would be easier for her to give me up instead of OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dakotamoon:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> THIS IS NOT A SPRINT IT'S A MARATHON SO PACE YOURSELF FOR THE LONG HAUL.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hearing this frustates me. My taker is really tired of my giver working over time.

But ya know what? I love my wife and still choose her for my life mate.