I've been mulling over MB principles, many ideas I've seen expressed in posts here, and my own emotions and beliefs, and I have a question or two. Perhaps hearing some thoughts and ideas will help me as well as others.

As an outside observer to the situations of others here, I see posts from some BS's and I wonder if they wouldn't be better off cutting their losses, but then, I don't seem to be able to do that myself, either.

For example, I read posts and can clearly see that the WS is still lying out their teeth and still cheating as well in some cases, and I think, "Get a grip!" Then, I think, "Geez, who am I to say? I could be beating a dead horse, too."

I realize it's not over until the BS says it's over, but does anyone think sometimes this goes on unhealthily, and perhaps for reasons other than the "right" ones?

Do some BS's, in reality, agree to their situations but continue to grumble, yell, cry, coerce, threaten, and ask for advice?

Do I?

I know this is a marriage building site, but is there a point at which you (anyone who cares to provide a thought here) would advise a BS to go ahead and cut his/her losses?

Please pardon my vernacular, and I hope this post does not offend anyone; that is truly not my intent.

I think (I hope) it's a fair question worth pondering.

Muddled and confused,
PM

Papermom - I think you have asked a great question. The best thing to do is give the marriage all your effort for as long as you can. If the WS does not pitch in after awhile, you will feel good about giving up. You won't have doubts at all. You won't even be angry anymore. You will be just like I am, DONE, and moving on.

Papermom,

That is exactly what our lemony friend (aka lemonman does and I, for one, appreciate his "outsider's" viewpoint on situations. Like I told him in one of my recent threads, intellectually I know he is right, but emotionally I can't seem to get myself to agree with him. I guess, I may very well be beating a dead horse myself, and for the outsiders here they see is, but I can't/don't. That is why I support and look forward to lemonman's responses.

MIF?

<small>[ November 28, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: marriage is forever? ]</small>

I agree with you all, but until the BS "feels" they have put forth enough effort, we will always wonder "what-if?" So although it may be clear to to others that the M appears to be over, it isn't yet clear to the BS because they aren't ready to give up, for whatever reason, healthy or not.

Some of us will be able to handle more than others, but I don't necessarily find it unhealthy...I think that when the BS see's that it's over, they will feel even better about the whole thing. They can cut ties knowing that they gave it their all even though the WS did not. The BS NEVER dropped to the WS's level.

it took almost three yrs before i saw any real effort on my husbands part towards recovery(and me asking him to move out....)

it took that long for one simple reason...i knew i would have to face my kids and tell them i tried everything...and mean it.

I've been reading here for so long, and seen so many turn-arounds, that I hoped a miracle would happen for us. I gave it lots of time, to no avail. But the nice (?) thing is that finally the love is lost, and the hurt is gone.

It is very hard to tell early on who will make it and who won't. I have seen some marriages that looked very promising dissolve, and some that seemed completely hopeless succeed. It takes time to see.

However I don't like to see anyone sit in misery for months and months. It is better to start building a life without your partner while hoping you can reconcile.

an exelent question, one that i have thought about often. altho we are only 5.5 weeks since dday, and some days are definately better then others, i agree with the others that i will hang in there and try my best for as long as i can, and if it doesnt work out, i can tell myself and our kids that i did all i could. but i also choose to remain optimistic and hope and pray to reconcile.

That is something I ask/tell myself almost every day. It's as though my heart and brain say two completely different things. What I know I should do and what I am 'able' to do are not the same. So many people have told me to 'move on' or 'you can do so much better' or 'get over him' but I am still not able to do that...yet.
I see how wrong and hurtful he is...but I KNOW how wonderful of a person he WAS...and I just somehow hope he can turn himself around.
It's a very good question...and I wish I had an answer myself.

Danielle

Making decisions based on emotion is WS behavior.

When in doubt, listen to your brain.

Noodle

noodle,

If I listened to my brain I would've been gone on DDay and never felt like there was a chance for recovery. Maybe there isn't, but at least I am giving it a shot, right?

MIF?

Tell me why you would have left on Dday if you had listened to your brain?

Was it not your emotions that told you FLEE! NOW!!

If you look at the situation logically, and you deduce that there is no benefit in staying [there are several instances in which this is probably the case, but not always] then you should probably leave.

I am addressing the people who say I know that I should leave, but my heart won't let go yet.

Making decisions based on sentiment is definately WS behavior..it waxes and wanes..it is without merit..it has no future or even a potential for a future.

When the room is empty declaring it full will not make it so. Deal in facts. When the facts indicate to you that it is time to exit..do so or remain against your better judgement and reap the consequences.

Noodle

noodle,

If you read my story in my signature below you will see that my emotions told me to flee on DDay, so I guess you are right. It was after I settled down a bit and my brain took over that I decided I wanted to work on this. Since then however I feel intellectually that I should leave and not look back, but emotionally I still want so bad for this to work out. Every time my WW looks like she is serious I find she is sneaking around and still in contact with OM and it crushes me. My mind is now telling me to run away, far away and not look back, but my heart is saying this can work out.

MIF?

What facts suggest to you that it is time to exit the R?

Noodle

Just the 4 false recoveries. Everytime I think we are in recovery and she is serious about NC with OM, I find out that is not the case. My mind is telling me I should run, while my heart is saying just one more chance...
here is the most recent relapse.
sigh,

MIF?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

noodle - I always enjoy your comments.

I kicked WH out on D-day. I always believed that we had something special. Our marriage was not perfect, but good. We made good partners.

After D-day, he kept telling how much he loved me, that I was a good wife, that OW was out of the picture, blah, blah, blah. And he said it so sincerely that everyone believed him.

But he continued to see her and lie about it. I gave him the benefit of his 10 years of good behavior. He was always a good and honest man. That is what mixed me up.

I did not realize that he changed into a completely different man, a man I would not even want for a friend. I listened too much to his words, and his actions didn't follow.

But as I was living alone and going on with my life, I realized that my life without him was much better. This process took almost 2 years.

That is why I advise folks here to take their time and give it their best. I have no regrets, and feel comfortable with the way things worked out.

I think it all comes down to one thing, and that is everyone has their own breaking point. It could be time or actions or words or any combination.

I agree with everyone:

Everyone has there own breaking point.

You can't make decisions based on emotions.

Actions speak louder than words.

At some point the "love" will be lost due to no actions of the WS.

This was a very good question!