I have read and research lots of information on affairs, however, I am very disappointed to find much information on emotional affairs. I am suffering from an emotional affair that my husband began while deployed to Iraq. I have been dealing with this since his return in February. It has almost been a year now, with little or no progress made. He will not go to counseling, and came back from Iraq with little or no love for me. He began a very intense friendship with another woman, that he still continues and had made known that it is a "bond that can not be broken". I am very angry that he doesn't recognize that this is an emotional betrayal, and he wants me to "get over it" and move on since he now says he is in love with me again. How am I supposed to move on with the threat of this happening again, and quite frankly the fact that it is not over. I do not want a divorce, but I do not want to live like this. Any help?

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: 81377 ]</small>

My very first post was that there was an EA that had ended several months earlier, and I wasn't getting over it.

In fact, it was a PA that was quite intense.

Your not getting over it may be a sign that it isn't over. Try Harley's book, "Surviving an Affair."

Cherished

I must ask the difficult question: are you completely accepting his assertion that the affair never went physical? From some of his behaviors, I would have to question that: the lack of affection for you, his refusal to give up this relationship, even though it is totally distressing for you.
The "bond that can't be broken" is usually forged through sex, though I understand that combat produces some close bonds. But, infidelity is rampant in the military--men and women away from home and sexual comforts, thrown together, where it all seems far removed from home and marriage. Spouses could easily get involved in friendships that get out of hand.
I would say your major task at hand is to find out the full nature of the relationship.
If the affair went physical, he may be unwilling to tell you because he wants to hold on to the relationship without your making him stop.
How did you find out about the friendship? What type of contact does he have with her? Can you moniter it in some way?
In the meantime, read up on this site about plan A and plan B, meeting your spouses needs, communication, etc. If the relationship truly is just a friendship, hopefully he will reconnect with you instead, over time. But if it is an affair, it is dangerous to let it continue--he would be having his cake and eating it too, which isn't good.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: 81377 ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 81377:
[QB] I am not 100% sure that their affair never went beyond emotional and crossed to physical... but I have no choice to beleive him. The fact is that whether it went physical or not, to me the pain that I am feeling from it is just as real and intense. I don't however beleive that there were never romantic feelings, or sexual tension that may have gone on. I beleive that they both have very intense feelings that can be equated to, (dare I say), love, and that is what I can't get over right now. I beleive that the "bond" he is referring to is the bond of war. The thing is I accept that, and I accept that going through war is something that I will never be able to understand... as is being left home for a year with a 6 month old baby something he will never understand, but I am over that. What I can't get over is that there is a piece she has that I don't, and a piece of himself that he gives her that he doesn't give me. I want to make him see that this is an affair of the heart, because I have never actaully used those words. How do I make him see that? Sad to say that the friendship began before they ever left for war, but it wasn't just a friendship with him, it was a friendship with me as well. There is no way that I can totally monitor their contact because they work together, so there is some level of contact they have to have... and to make matters even more complicated, her husband is now my husband's surperior... I know you would think I am making this up. Their contact is mainly over cell phones, which he keeps from me, and some through email. I beleive that there is some level of trust that should be resepcted on his part, since he is very adamant about it not being physical... and maybe I am the stupid one there.

Ok here is my two cents on this.

I spent 12 yrs in the military and half of that time on deployed to hotspots throught out the middle east. And as a Faithful Husband I never confused the war with emtional needs of another woman. I was over there fighting for the things I did leave behind in the states. My wife my children my friends and my family. Don't let him snowball you with the bonds of war story, any chaplain will tell you it's a misguided ruse to get away with something else.

Have a long talk with your husband and settle for nothing vut the truth, and tell him that while he was over there doing his job you were at home doing yours " being afithful" I'm sorry but I have seen many friends and fellow soldiers throw there marriages out the window because of the so-called "bonds of war" it's bull and should not be confused with other issues he may have.

Don't give up on your husband but don't settle for hal;f answers and half truths.

The vets here can help you with this if you listen and do what they say.

It does work

I agree with Mschluter. May I add, now would be a good time to have a conversation with your husband about honesty and openness. If nothing is going on except friendship, he should have no problem letting you see his cellphone and reading the emails they write to each other. (Marriage involves a boundary around the two of you that keeps EVERYONE ELSE on the outside of that circle of intimacy. That's why you are so hurt--he has invited her in where only the two of you belong.) If he balks, I would take that as a sure sign he is hiding some facet of the relationship from you. By the way, the adamant protest on his part that nothing physical occurred isn't worth much, since almost all unfaithful spouses use anger as a way of deflecting suspicion--it's an extremely common mechanism.
Trust your gut. If it is screaming that something is wrong, it likely is. Many unfaithful spouses rely on the faithful spouse being in denial that the one they trust could betray their love. Couple that with their angry accusations of jealousy every time the topic is brought up and it buys them time to have their fun.
There are ways to find out the truth, such as downloading a keystroke logger onto your computer and using a voice activated recorder under the seat of his car to catch cellphone conversations.
You may want to consider the future possibility of talking to her husband, telling him of your concerns and asking for his take. I know your husband would be incredibly mad, and you need to do more homework before you would use that option, but if you do find out they are romantically involved, her husband MUST be told. He would be your best ally in ending the relationship. Would your hubby's life become hell on earth for a time? Yeah. But natural consequences are the most effective kind. Don't protect him if he is doing wrong.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: realitychkd chick ]</small>

I agree with Chick, and thank you for your support. My ww did the same thing, tried to say there her A was an EA instead of an Ap .. Of course I found out through many sleepless nights that it started out EA and moved into a PA then back to an Ea. She was feeding his Ea by having sex with him. Go figure. Only have MC did I find out she only had sex with him twice..

Do not settle for his angry excuses. Read about Plan A and get the Book SAA

Thank you for the replies, and the advice. I am sure that you both know from your own experiences that this is extremely hard. It is very hard trying to make choices that not only affect my life, but our 2 yr old son as well. What is so hard for me to swallow is that if you would have told me 2 years ago that I would be here I would have laughed in your face. It amazes me how I could go to a totally strong secure woman to a bumbling idiot. I get so angry at myself for backing down on my feelings and not standing up for myself more. It is hard for me when it comes time to have a conversation to not crumble when I see him. I hate seeing him hurt, and I know that I have hurt him too. I don't want to have to sink to his level in a (matter of speaking) to resort to sneaking around looking for something. He is sneaking around hiding things from me, whether it was just a conversation or whatever, and I don't want to do the same... I guess I want to feel like that in some way I took the high road if that makes sense. I appreciate your listening ears, and any more advice you have to offer, it makes this time much easier.

I respect your taking the high road on all of this, But eventually someone has to clean under the bed...I also have children, and the hardest day of my life was looking at my wife with evidence in hand and forcing her to confess to her A. But on the brighter side of things.. 7 months later she is going on day 12 of no contact and starting to open up to me and letting me fill those Emotional needs.


You used the phrase "totaly strong woman to bumbbling idiot"

Lets get this straight and upfront. You are still a very strong woman and never think otherwise, you have a child who needs the strong woman in you to fight for dad with everything she has.

Talk with your husband if he continue to go on with this lie then explain to him that you will do everything you can as a loving wife to fight for your Marriage.

Please, I beg of you to read SAA and look at what others wrote on there threads. there are so many good people here and we all have hurt inside but we do not run or hide from it.

Face your fears and you will find the peace you need to talk with your husband.

God bless and take care

My FWH had an ea. The only reason I think it never when to PA was due to ED from meds he ws taking. If fact, I think it took him so long to realize it was an affair was because there was no sex. To him, no sex therefore no affair.

I was devistated by all of the lies and the decite. The cruel treatment of me while the OW could do no wrong. And it was all ok because their was no sex. She made him happy, while I was always too angry or sad.

It has taken us over a year to work thru this mess. If it haddened of dawned on him that all of the lies were wrong, and that she had moved away, I don't thing our marriage would have worked. I was at the point of leaving once our child graduated.

To me an affair is an affair, ea or pa. In fact emotional connection to another woman was more damaging than if it had been "just sex."

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: shay919 ]</small>

And you are not stupid. he should not be hiding cell phone calls to her. It seems to me that the cell phone plays a major role in A's. He must be totally open with you if you are to ever to trust him again.

Shay hit it hard, and I think thats the way most people look at it until it affects them.

No sex means no affair. BULLS*IT. Thats the way I also looked at it until I woke up. then it hit me like a brick.

Don't let him bully you into thinking that you are the one with the problem.

If they are still in contact, you can assume the A is still happening.

Deny him any access to his email or cellphone. Expose the A. Practice plan A.

Hopefully soon he will snap out of it and you will be able to start working on recovery.

Lots of love

what if i have done plan a, but i am not ready for the consequences and severity of plan b? i also don't want to create a huge amount of resentment on his part because it is not a PA... meaning if i make him stop all contact and he doesn't realize that an EA is still an A, then I am still going to be living in an unhappy marriage, and what good does that do me. Is there any loving way to open his eyes to the EA when plan a doesn't work, but i am not ready to go to plan b?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> 81377: what if i have done plan a, but i am not ready for the consequences and severity of plan b? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Do you know the reason for plan A vs plan B? If you are done with plan A and the M is not in a solid recovery, then plan B is the next step. Anything less w/b like trying to walk on air.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> 81377: i also don't want to create a huge amount of resentment on his part because it is not a PA...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: He already has resentment on his part and you didn't create it. The A did.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> 81377: meaning if i make him stop all contact and he doesn't realize that an EA is still an A, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: You can't make him stop nor control his actions. The only one you can control is yourself. You can show him or direct him to helpful sources or info and this is ONLY if he is willing to hear you out.

He does realize more than he will let on. He will guard and protect the A and OW but will babble to you that he did it to protect you from hurt. Does that make sense? How can you feel could listening to that sort of babble?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> 81377:then I am still going to be living in an unhappy marriage, and what good does that do me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: You are already in an unhappy M. It will continue until both there is a D or a solid recovery. Everything that happens for the next few weeks, months or even years will be rough. We call it a rollercoaster and some rides last longer and rougher than others. But all the BS ride that roller coaster. The choice is when we choose to get off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> 81377: Is there any loving way to open his eyes to the EA when plan a doesn't work, but i am not ready to go to plan b? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: No, there is not a loving way since he is not open to love from you or his family. Right now he is very selfish since his brain has been attacked by a virus toxic enough to kill a M. What you can do is do take a realistic look at yourself. See where you can improve in yourself and hence in your M and work on it ..... for now.... alone. Let those improvements show. He will see it. No OW is better than the W and family. All OWs stink!!

There is only plan A, recovery or D, plan B, recovery or D. Yep, it can go either way. Why? Because it takes 2 for a marital recovery...... Aaaawwwwh..... but personal recovery is within your grasp. This one you have full control over and it will make you, healthy, wise and strong. A more attractive person for all to see.....yea even a WS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Many an OP get jealous at how well the faithful spouse looks with a good plan A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Tools for a good plan A:

1. Read the concepts section above
2. Take the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. Once as yourself, ask your WS or take it as your spouse.

3. Read: Surivivng an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs for starters. There are other books if needed.

4. Setup a personal support group right around you. C/b family, relatives, co-workers, neighbors, doctor, IC/MC, pet, hobbies, total stranger at the store, etc. Don't have to tell all but who you tell ask them to respect your decision and you appreciate their support.

5. Setup with a good IC/MC &/or call Steve or Jennifer @ MB for phone counseling.

6. Identify your bounndaries. Implement them.

7. Make your plan A. Implement.
8. Make your plan B. Implement as needed.

That's for starters. This is for your education. The WS is not in a position t/b educated. They still think the world is flat as a pancake and like the emperor wearing 'new clothes'. You can't convince them otherwise so don't stress over trying to give logic to the one without a brain (at least for now).

Keep posting here to vent as needed. The above works. Many of us have done it. Many have achieved personal recovery and some with M recovery. We end up better for the wear.

take care,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Is there any loving way to open his eyes to the EA when plan a doesn't work, but i am not ready to go to plan b?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">81377, maybe it will help if you give him THIS ARTICLE to read. You can post this article to him and tell him you’re very concerned about his ‘friendship’ and the pain it is causing you and your M. This article is short and easy to read but it is full of information and clearly defines what constitutes an EA and how dangerous and damaging friendships between opposite sex people can be. You can also ask your H how will he feel if you have such a ‘close friendship’ and ‘unbreakable bond’ with another man. I don't think he will ever allow that! Maybe this question will force him to do some introspection.

Blessings,
Suzet

I keep telling my FWS that if either he or the OW were acting in a way that he would not want me to act with another man, then their behavior was not appropriate. Or if he was saying or doing things with another woman that he would not want me to hear, then the relationship is not appropriate. But it took a long time for him to "get it." The pull of an ea is very strong when they think the OW is their "soulmate" and that they have "so much in common with." And they were so smug with this "we're just friends" bullspit, since after all there was NO sex involved.

All I can say is that I Plan A with a set time limit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shay919:
<strong>I keep telling my FWS that if either he or the OW were acting in a way that he would not want me to act with another man, then their behavior was not appropriate. Or if he was saying or doing things with another woman that he would not want me to hear, then the relationship is not appropriate.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very true… I think A’s wouldn’t happen if married people could apply this important boundary in all their encounters with the opposite sex!