Hey Binder - ice fishing yet?

Don't know the rules in Canada, but in the US, to get a passport, the birth certificate has to be an original. A "copy" won't do. If this is the case in Canada, I suggest you give her a "copy" - exactly what she asked for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Get it?

I'll differ a bit with the hard line Plan B stance. When it come to the kids, you may be required to share info - just as if you were divorced.

WAT

Unless this was related to a potential child's health care issue, Binder should not lift a finger to help his WW and should just let her do all the work required to acquire his kids birth certificates. Plan B is also about giving the WS a taste of what reality is going to be like without the BS to help the him/her. She's made her bed, not its time for her to lie in it.

TMCM

WAT, weather has become unusually mild here for this time of year. The foot of snow we received in October is gone. The lakes have about 4 inches of ice so far so ice fishing can start anytime. Another month or so before we start driving on it though.

I think the passport can only be obtained with the original as well, but a copy sworn to by a Commissioner for Oaths may be acceptable. I bet the copy would be sufficient to cross the US border in a private plane though. Not many customs officers at 8000 ft.

I hear you regarding the cooperation, and I do feel somewhat petty not producing the BC's, but I'm not sure I can do it without regurgitating breakfast. I've already sent the message offering the fax to Revenue Canada and no more.

TMCM, thanks for the input. Other than the aforementioned fax, I won't offer the certificates unless she presents an argument indicating it is a pressing need for the children. I agree that their well being has primacy over our marital issues.

CoffeeMan - I'm well aware of what Plan B is about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

But I'm also aware of what Binder's wife's attorney has threatened in the past regarding child issues and the legal vehicles are in place that specify certain things that each party must adhere to. This likely includes sharing information, etc. about the children and from an attorney's standpoint, a request to obtain a copy of a BC is a reasonable request. His refusal or ignoring of this request can only create more accusations of "unreasonable conduct" by Mr. Binder.

WAT

When you go to Mexico, you are suppose to have original "raised seal" birth certificates for children. I don't think a copy would do. If OM is flying them in, I suppose it could be different. However, Mexican authorities can be rather harsh. I've had friends stopped at the border until their S faxed permission.

In the US, the new passport regulations are pretty stiff. They need an original birth certificate and the child present at the office taking all the paperwork. If both parents aren't there together with the child at that time, there is also a form that the non-present parent must fill out.

England at least isn't as picky. I've taken my D there alone several times without difficulties. They've never asked for permission from the other parent. Perhaps it's the RT ticket. I'm sure other countries have other requirements.

Good luck

WAT,

Fair enough, but keep in mind that Binder's WW attorney can issue threats til the cows come home but what does Binder's attorney say with regards to this matter?

TMCM

WAT,

I read the separation agreement again and cannot see where this is specifically in violation of it. It could be argued that my actions or lack thereof might contravene it in “spirit”. There is a clause that specifies disputes are to be resolved via mediation prior to adjudication.

If she is trying to build a body of evidence to suggest my parenting skills or techniques are incompatible with a shared parenting arrangement, it would be a weak one at best. I have also been documenting her parenting regime should this ever be dragged in front of a judge. I don't anticipate that ever occurring though.

TMCM, my lawyer has simply addressed the issues regarding the form of communication between us i.e. third party Email. She has supported my wishes and has recently sent a letter to opposing counsel questioning whether a court even has jurisdiction to compel me to speak with WW directly. Before it ever were to get that far, I would suggest text-messaging which would address WW's main concern of timely communication.

HurtingCarol, I'm feeling fairly confident the B.C. is not for a trip to Mexico, but a sworn copy may get her a passport here. Our weak Canadian system of checks and balances cause a lot of concern to your dept. of Homeland Security. I really don't know if a photocopy would be enough to allow a flight plan into the States though. Remember, OM has his own airplane.

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

Lisa 0705:

You are wrong. You do not need written permission from the other parent. I have traveled many times to Europe with the kids without my H. Noone ever asked. My kids also often travel with their grandparents without any documentation. The first few times we gave them a notarized permission, but since noone ever cared, we stopped doing that. Essentially you can take your kids anywhere.

Iceprincess,

Just because the customs or immigration officers of other countries have not asked you or your kids grandparents, for documentation showing you or they have permission to travel with them, does not mean that they don't have authority to do so if they suspect that things are not on the up and up. It's always better to be prepared with all the documentation that might be needed, than to run the risk of ruining a vacation. I've seen this happen a lot and usually to people who in the past had not been asked for any documentation at all.

TMCM

After suggesting that I can fax the copies for WW, she suddenly "decided" she doesn't require the Birth certificates from me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So...I'm not sure if she will rush out and get duplicates, but I have no control over that. I called the U.S. customs folks and they informed me that there is little they can do to prevent the entry of my children into their country unless I first go to the police here with a concern regarding abduction. I really don’t think they are going to flee the country so I cannot in good conscience suggest that to the authorities.

He also says that a small private airplane could land at a number of airports on the US side of the border and I would have to contact each one individually to alert them. I need to do more research on this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong>I called the U.S. customs folks and they informed me that there is little they can do to prevent the entry of my children into their country unless I first go to the police here with a concern regarding abduction.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you've got ample evidence of an alien abduction!

Is there an airport near Devil's Tower? Maybe a good place to start...............

Morning, Binder. Glad the suggestion about faxing worked for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, if I could give myself some advice that would have the same results.... Oops, sorry, off in Fantasy Land.

O.T. Ice fishing? Well you are defintely not a West Coaster. I had to cut my lawn on Remembrance Day. It's cold here, now though. BRRR! Just above freezing. But no snow. Hardly ever. NA NA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> We panic if we get more than 1/2 an inch! A Year! HeHeHe

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> O.T. Ice fishing? Well you are defintely not a West Coaster. I had to cut my lawn on Remembrance Day. It's cold here, now though. BRRR! Just above freezing. But no snow. Hardly ever. NA NA. We panic if we get more than 1/2 an inch! A Year! HeHeHe
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

When I read your other posts I was thinking Halifax...a wonderful town. I now have you narrowed down to two cities at the other end of the country. I was in Vancouver recently for a conference. I do envy the weather, but too big a place for me.

The "other" West Coast port is one of my favorite cities. Took WW there to the Empress shortly after D-day when it was -30 C here. Thought some time together "alone" would help. She simply used the time to make it perfectly clear why she's leaving me and to let me know it has NOTHING to do with the OM. She couldn't even give her husband exclusivity that weekend. Called OM after checking her voice messages. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Edited to add: But at least I don't have Orange hair!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

Yup, you almost nailed it. Grew up in Vacnouver but am in the Valley. About an hour away. The city is too big for me now, too.

And, yes, WH is in Victoria. I am looking forward to moving back there. Way better job market for me. I am an IT kind of person. Did you have high tea at the Empress?

"But at least I don't have orange Hair" Oh ya? ROTFLMAO! Can't say anything about that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oaky, you must be in the prairies. AB, SK, or MB? Or ON?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did you have high tea at the Empress?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah...we had our $60.00 cup of tea. Shuda had the Queen herself serve it for that price!

Have a sister who lives where you are, another lovely place.

Yes, I live in King Ralph's domain. Only a western Canadian will understand that reference so I can remain incognito. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, I live in King Ralph's domain. Only a western Canadian will understand that reference so I can remain incognito </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We from the east can figure that out as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> so sorry to hear about your recent dilema...definitely passport situation is my guess...I am at the stage where I know marriage is over and just sitting back letting my lawyer handle everything...I am done worrying about the outcome as I know whatever it is I am strong enough now to move forward...

NewOutlook,

I've wondered about you. Yes, I'm sure it's a travel thing too. Maybe a quick trip to Disneyland with all the children. It's the psychological equivalent of a quick trip over Niagara Falls.

I will then have to speak to my son and explain to him how inappropriate this all is. I'm not sure I'm capable of forgiving that overt act by my WW.

I'm sorry you are not in a better situation. I was hoping to get better news. If we proceed with the D it will merely be a paper shuffle. All our property/finances/parenting privileges have been divided.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong>If we proceed with the D it will merely be a paper shuffle.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From a practical standpoint, yes.

But from an emotional standpoint, your WS initiated divorce can represent a huge new beginning for you on the heels of your most honorable fight. You will have put in the effort to save your family. You will have done everything you could to prevent her from climbing in that barrell to go over the falls. You have stayed squarely atop the high ground and she decided to end the marriage. In sum, you will have a clear conscience starting in your new life. She can NEVER have any of these things.

The cost of infidelity is perpetual to an unrepentent wayward spouse.

Your cost will be miniscule compared to hers because of what you have learned - about yourself and life in general - and because of how you handled your crisis.

Please do not dread an ending as much as you embrace the new beginning. You earned it.

In the meantime, stay the course, for she may yet see the height of the falls.

WAT

Thank-you WAT, your generous advice and observations over the last several months have been timely and appropriate. I wish I would have found this place sooner.

The "high road" will be difficult once I see/hear of him with my children. If you have any advice on that aspect I'll take it. I fear my restraint has it's limits.

Well said WAT...that is where I am now and hope Binder will be able to get to that point as well..although I will initiate D for financial reaons.. I know I have done everything in my power to try to repair marriage but it does not work if there is only one in the game..although WS has stated this past year has been hell he has done nothing to remotely change himself..as little as a month ago he stated he still loved me but still refuses to get rid of the third party..I stated that I have lived alone for a year.. taken courses to benefit this and am now on my way..he is still a very unhappy individual...Binder WAT is correct..you have done everything humanly possible to fix things but there comes a time when you have to think of yourself and your wonderful children...I know it is hard with small children...thank God I do not have that added pain to deal with..my son is married with children of his own and he has learned so much from all of this...I have taken the high road all the way along and my son respects me for this and just know Binder someday your children will too.

((((Hugs))))

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>