First and foremost I wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone here that reads this. You all have no idea how much MB and all of you mean to me.

I will go back to Thanksgiving day.
I had decided that my WH had a 4 day weekend, and he knew where we live. I was not going to contact him but I would accept his calls if he called.
I received a call from my WH and I credit card company about charges to verify. He made $450 at the grocery store, and $150 at an alcohol store. I let them know it was him, not me who made the charges.
WH called about an hour later, in a bad mood. He basically wanted to cause trouble. I told him that Thanksgiving was a bad day to pick, and that I would have to talk to him later, when he was in a better mood. I hung up.
Friday morning I went to NC to visit his brother and wife one last time before they moved. WH knew I was going.
Friday night we went out and WH started calling about 10pm. I at that time had decided I was going dark for the weekend to let him wonder. I didn't answer the phone. About 11pm I got a call from my Mother. OW had called her and started yelling to "leave her man alone" etc. My Mother hung up the phone and didn't accept any further calls.
Saturday WH tried calling me a few times, which I didn't answer.
Sunday he called my Mom, and left a message saying that if she talked to me to let me know he wanted to say Hi and he was in a good mood. She called to let me know. Not 10 minutes later he called my cell and on the second call I answered. I had it in my head that if he wanted to talk reasonable I would listen, otherwise I would hang up. He was VERY reasonable. He asked how my weekend was, and I told him fantastic. I didn't mention that I was avoiding him. I put on a huge Plan A act. He asked if he could come by the house and pick up his extra cell phone because he wanted to change phones as his wasn't working well. I told him that the kids really didn't need him in and out of the house like that and I could leave it outside. He said that he really wanted to see me. I said OK, how about I meet you at Wal-Mart just down the road? He agreed. I met him at Wal-Mart and I was nicely dressed. I have lost 40 lbs.. He looked at me with a huge smile and said "I didn't even recognize you" I said..."I know, I am beautiful" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Anyhow, I gave him his cell phone and said I needed to get batteries for our son. He asked if I needed anything else and said he would like to go with me. I agreed. We did a little shopping and then we went to leave. He asked if I wanted to go for a ride around with him, and talk. I said sure. He got in my car and I drove. I basically told him that I missed the old him, and asked how he was doing. He talked to me about the fights and problems he and the OW were having. I asked him why he wanted THAT for a life. He said he didn't but that he "saw something inside of her" and he felt it was his job to try to CHANGE her. I told him he could change one person and that was HIM. He basically didn't say to much. I told him that she is just trouble waiting to happen, and it hurts me that he is choosing that for a life. At one time he asked for a hug and told me 'I have so much stuff at her house now' like he was pondering it. I asked him about his plans once the OW gets evicted and he said that he plans to get an apartment for them in his name so that when they fight he can kick her out instead of her always kicking him out. I laughed and said 'what a life'. We drove around a bit, he gave me a hug and kiss and I brought him back to his car. A couple of times he mentioned to me that he didn't know why he was with me because he knew it would come back to haunt him if the OW found out.
Today he called and we talked for a few minutes. He told me that he knew I was probably right about the OW being no good, but he is just to stupid to do anything about it. I told him that makes me sad. He asked me to bring him something to the ship (he has duty tonight) if I went out and I did. He told me thank you and was very nice. He said he will always care about me and love me he is just set in his ways. Whatever that means.
I am so confused. I felt like I was going to Plan B and now I don't know what I should do or feel. Ideas?
On a more serious topic, I got a RO against the OW today. I have a meeting again with my lawyer at 4pm tomorrow to discuss support.
Thanks!
Danielle

Dear Dani,

You sound much stronger. So the 'honeymoom' in the A is over? Hm.... seems like the OW is losing it a bit. Good.

Step back and let them LB themselves to smithereens. LOL!!!! You did fine. Not dealing with his mess makes it easier for you right? He is starting to see it but still fog babbling. So you would probably be best to just keep your distance.

You can tell when he is speaking the truth vs babbling, right? Then you are ready to go to plan B if that is what you need to do for you and your family.

As for his ways being set.....well if that is his way.... I am sure you want no part of having an OW in YOUR life.

So who is confused here, you or him?
take care,
L.

Yup. Stand back and watch them self-destruct. When you have contact with your H just plan A. You did perfectly on your "ride." Your H is so ddep in the fog, I think he vies for a spot among the best of MB history. He knows she's bad for him? He's set in his way? He's afraid to be with his own wife because it will come back on him if the big, bad OW finds out?

What, she has cousins who will come and break his legs? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep your Plan B ready and proceed to protect yourself legally. I am glad you are seeing your attorney tomorrow.

You are gaining strength, Danielle. Pretty AND smart..... hmmmmm.... could WS be seeing that too?

~ Snow

Orchid,
I think we are both confused. I guess confused would not be the best word to use for me. I KNOW what I WANT but when he is so deep in the fog I don't know if that is possible, so I start to build up a wall (or pretend to) and try to convince myself of something else. He is trying with all his heart and soul to save his R with OW. They were up until 5am this morning 'talking' about why they argue so much. I wish he had given that much effort in our marriage. She leaves him voicemails that say "This is a promise, I will never call you again, come get your stuff" and within an hour she is calling. He doesn't think he is confused until he sees me, and then he is. At one point he asked me why whenever he is with me he feels like **** and wants to end his life because he has messed up so bad. I shrugged. The problem I face is this..... When I set myself up thinking that I just need to move on with my life, and give up on him being the man I used to know...he does something like this and I see hope, I see the old him in there...deep inside and I get excited. It is a huge rollercoaster. I am TRYING to tell what is FOG babble and what is the truth, but I am not so great at it.

Snow,
He DOES see that. He asked me how I was doing in school, and I told him I was getting all A's. He kept telling me how proud of me he was, for everything...and that he was happy that I have made changes to make my life better. I asked him where he would have been if he changed along with me..and he said "probably a lot better off"
It seems so obvious to me, but I guess he can't see through the fog. He is honestly scared of the OW and he mentioned that a few times. He said IF he ever did leave her, it would be very nasty. She is the kind of person who would make it nasty.

What makes me mad right now is the fact that when she gets evicted HE is going to get THEM an apartment in HIS name... AND that he plans to take her HOME to OUR state for Christmas... I guess I need to just accept that I can't change what he does...only what I do.

Danielle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DanigirlinVA:
<strong> Orchid,
I think we are both confused. I guess confused would not be the best word to use for me. I KNOW what I WANT but when he is so deep in the fog I don't know if that is possible, so I start to build up a wall (or pretend to) and try to convince myself of something else. He is trying with all his heart and soul to save his R with OW. They were up until 5am this morning 'talking' about why they argue so much. I wish he had given that much effort in our marriage. She leaves him voicemails that say "This is a promise, I will never call you again, come get your stuff" and within an hour she is calling. He doesn't think he is confused until he sees me, and then he is. At one point he asked me why whenever he is with me he feels like **** and wants to end his life because he has messed up so bad. I shrugged. The problem I face is this..... When I set myself up thinking that I just need to move on with my life, and give up on him being the man I used to know...he does something like this and I see hope, I see the old him in there...deep inside and I get excited. It is a huge rollercoaster. I am TRYING to tell what is FOG babble and what is the truth, but I am not so great at it.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa Dani, you need to be in sync for what you want for U...... not the WS. I am sure you want your H back and not the WS, right? Now that it is clarified, are you still confused? Cuz the WS is really foggy.

Staying up until 5am discussing what? How do you know that? After you answer that question, I have another for you.

Your WS is giving you the same fog talk mine gave me. OW was famous for keeping the WS and her H up and doing the talking alllll night long. LOL!!! Her mouth ended up being her own undoing!!! YEA!!!!

So I think if you step back, that OW will hang the A all by herself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Doesn't that sound great!?!?!?!? ;p

L.

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid,
I want my H back...NOT this WH he has become, exactly.
He calls me at 0630 on his way to work everyday to say Hi and have a good day. (This goes in spurts, he will call everyday for weeks, then not for a week, then everyday again..) Anyhow, this morning he told me that he was tired because he and OW were up until 5 am talking. I said "Ok" because I didn't know how to respond and he went on to tell me that they were talking because he wants to find out why they argue so much, and how to get along better, and not get in fights etc. I told him I could tell him WHY they fight so much, but he wouldn't listen even if I did, so I won't.
Does that answer your first question? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
By "stepping back" do you mean Plan B?
Thanks, your awesome!!
Danielle

I am fighitng the urge to weigh in here...........Whew, that passed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Good luck DanigirlinVA.

I hope someday that you find some love for yourself. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dani,

U R filling his need for reassurance. Anyway he wants to tell you what he and OW are doing? That's sick. Tell him so. Let him know you may be there to talk about family stuff but not his A stuff. If that is what you want.

After a while the A stuff gets down right boring and stupid. Once the shock of the A wears off and the BS realizes the WS and OP really don't have anything better than the H and W had.

IMHO, tell him go tell his OW story to a shrink. You go to a counselor. Why send him to a shrink instead of a MC? Just being sarcastic. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But the WS tends to act sooo stupid, it is tempting, isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know these wacko comments from the WS tend to throw the BS off balance but you will soon get the hand of how to reverse babble. I think you are doing good.

....and you'd better keep it up or lemonman will come back and give you his 2 cents. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

take care,
L.

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid,

Reassurance.

AMM

AM,

Reassurance it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (reassurment: the pidgin form of reassurance - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Mahlao,
L.

Orchid,
HE DOES need a shirk! He is Rxed Prozac but since he moved out and is drinking he can not take it. So I guess he chose the drinks over the meds.
Lemon, Not the first time I have heard that...I am sure it won't be the last.

Today he called me and was angry again. SEE-SAW! I told him please don't call when your angry. He is mad about money, all the time. Thinks I am trying to 'bleed him dry' and that I have 'to much control over his life' Then I changed the topic and he calmed down. Then I said that I enjoyed our time together on Sunday. He said yea whatever. I just got quiet. He said it's like old friends. (damn, that hurts). Then I told him that our son was starting to feel better (he is sick) and he said that he is glad about that, and he wished he could have come to see him more but he just can't. He said I am supporting him by giving you money now, (he finally agreed to $921 a month via my new lawyer! woohoo). I explained to him that the kids need more then his money, they need his love. He just says yea I know. (Hello? What happened to the caring Father I used to know?) Then I asked him if he knew how to get in contact with the OW H. He said NO, but he WISHED he did. He wants to know if the OW and her H had sex on Oct 29th. That is when my H came home (false R) and she had her H over for the night. She denies SF but my H thinks they did. I told him that I was NOT going to get involved in that, and I didn't appreciate him telling me all about his nights with OW like I am a friend who wants to hear about his affair. He gets mad when I say that. How can I go from wife to friend in 4 months? Then he says he has to go, he will call later but he has to go eat lunch. I said I probably won't be home later tonight but that he could leave a message. I don't know what to do with him. He says he hates all women. Whatever. He hates that he can't have his cake and eat it too, he hates that he can't run the world and that his responsibilties follow him when he runs away.
I am still trying to find out the OW H contact info, because I still have YET to talk to him. He KNOWS about my H and wants his W back.
I am really starting to think plan B is in order...but at the same time I feel that it will just push him further away because that is what he wants. I have a lot of thinking to do I guess.
Danielle

Hi Dani,

Time for plan B? U R correct. Ask for some plan B help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Many find it takes several drafts to come up with a good one.

Persistence makes perfect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
L.

Well.....
I tried to use my cell phone today (my WH and I have two phones on one plan) and it didn't work. He turned them both off and got a new number, which he e-mailed to tell me I won't be getting so I can't call him. Okay, thanks. Our son has pneumonia and I guess he doesn't care because he hasn't come to see him. This is all because the OW got her summons today for the threatening bodily harm to me. When I asked him what his problem was and what his new number was he said 'none of my bussiness'.
Also, I finally got in contact with the OW H. WOW. He KNOWS how horrible his wife is being...and everything that is going on. BUT his wife tells him that my WH and the OW do NOT have SF. LIE! LIE! LIE! She is leading this man on!!! Well not anymore...I just busted the lie in half. I feel so bad for her children. The OW moved to this area to buy the family a house because her H has 6 months left in the Navy and is retiring. The OW gets ALL of his money and still is getting kicked out. I told him to get a lawyer. He mentioned "I wonder what the OW and your WH would say if they saw us together" good question.
BUT, I think it is time for Plan B..I am working on the letter right now. My heart bleeds for my children.
Danielle

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

Okay.....
So last night I was talking to the OW H for quite a while. The OW told him that she met my WH at a 'store', but they really met online. The OW also tells him that they are 'just friends' and 'nothing happens sexually'. She has NOT informed him of her plans to move to Maine with my WH in 5 months. Yikes. It was good to let him know what is REALLY going on.
Then this AM I get a call from my WH. He knew I had talked to the OW H. He asked "SO, tell me, when is the last time the OW and her H had sex"? I told him that I didn't know, I didn't ask. My WH told me "find out for me, and if it was recently have him leave a message on my cell phone saying so" I said "Why would I do that" and he said "just do it, that will be 'the deciding factor' and then he hung up and hasn't called back. What does this mean to me?

My WH is supposed to take our son to see Sponge Bob the Movie tonight...but the way that is looking I will be taking him. I have written a Plan B letter but I am waiting a few days to ponder it before I deliver it.
Danielle

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

Sounds like your H has written a line in the sand with OW and needs an excuse to break up with her...you can pass along the message and maybe the two H's can talk, but don't expect much from it...the OW will spin it to her advantage...maybe...


Enjoy your children, but start documenting EVERY conversation and detail, and squirrelling it away. It will be important later if OW and WH ever threaten custody that he didn't give you his new number as was unable to be reached during family emergencies. It would be a useful journal during recovery too...

OW is LBing all over the place, and I can't see your WH wanting to put up with this much longer...be the EXTREME contrast and be sweet, sweet, sweet, not demanding or nagging at all. Work on his top 3 needs.... (Admiration...compliments, etc.)

Okay so the OW H called and left a message on my WH cell phone saying that he thought they should talk and come to an understanding of what is going on, and that yes, he and his wife have SF, they are married. My WH has not heard this message yet, but I expect things to hit the fan when he does.
and OF COURSE I opened my BIG mouth when I was talking to the OW H and told him that when I saw my WH Sunday.....etc. My WH had NOT told the OW that we were together, and he asked me not to tell her. Well damn, I just can't shut my mouth I guess. I didn't even think about it when I said it... I just said "well Sunday we were talking..." So of course the OW H e-mailed to tell the OW that my WH and I were together on Sunday. I expect that to come back and slap me in the face.

AHHHHH!!!!
Danielle

Dani,

The OW's H right now may not be a good support for you. While you are getting info, his agenda maybe revenge or anger....either way not a good place for you t/b. He may use you to get to his W. Normal feeling for a BS but dangerous if left unchecked. He shows this by not being able to hold his tongue. Right now whatever you tell him is probably going straight to the fog and getting totally lost in translation.

So what to do? Well, you have already made contact. Sit back and let him bring you info. Listen to him if you can and let him keep feeding you the info but you don't share too much. Just enough to keep it coming. Why? Because then you can keep tabs and not make as much waves. This w/b hard but if you are up to it, you will find out what you need to know.

When you are done with this process, you will be able to move forward. Don't worry about what state or stage the other players are in. That's right this is a game until you decide to pull out of it.

The name of the ride? The A rollercoaster. No seatbelts. Hang on for your life, it will be a doozie. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

L.

Okay....Last night was HORRIFIC! Plan B letter is posted pending revisions.

OW called from WH cell phone after her H talked to my WH about them having sex. She basically was asking me when the last time I had sex with my WH was. I told him that I didn't feel it necessary to go over this with her and hung up. Well she continued to call, and I turned the phones off. WH then called from his work (he must have gone to the ship) and told me not to talk to her, and not tell her the truth. I told him WHY should I have to LIE to COVER HIS AFFAIR? AHHHH!! So I got ANGRY! (BAD IDEA). I know...I know... 2x4 please. So the next time OW called I let it all out. Told her that we were together Sunday, and went shopping, told her everything. WHY SHOULD I LIE TO COVER HIS AFFAIR?
So...she got IRRATE! It ended up in big brawl and he came here asking me why I would do that to him. He confided in me and now I am ruining his life. He didn't come in the house, just stood at the door. He left after a few minutes. Then she called about a half hour later and asked if he had come here. I said yes, and she said he came to her house and got his cell phone and said he would pick up his clothes in the morning. Well okay so this morning he called from her house saying he hated me, never wanted to see me again etc. I said I was sorry he felt that way. He said he confided in me and I turned on him and stabbed him in the back. I said I didn't mean for him to feel like I was stabbing him in the back. I told him that the kids really miss him, and he said he DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THEM. OMG. I said 'excuse me'? He said that he didn't ever want to see me again, and that meant not seeing them. I am trying to ruin his happiness. I told him I was sorry for him and the kids and that I would talk to him later. What does everyone think about this whole big mess? I was talking to a mutual friend of my WH and I that lives back home and he said he agreees in the PLan B approach. Right now WH does not want anything to do with me, and he is really down a bad path, but he can't see that.
Well that is it....
The night was crazy. I messed up BIG TIME by talking to the OW. Plan B is for break....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DanigirlinVA:
<strong> Okay....Last night was HORRIFIC! Plan B letter is posted pending revisions.

OW called from WH cell phone after her H talked to my WH about them having sex. She basically was asking me when the last time I had sex with my WH was. I told him that I didn't feel it necessary to go over this with her and hung up. Well she continued to call, and I turned the phones off. WH then called from his work (he must have gone to the ship) and told me not to talk to her, and not tell her the truth. I told him WHY should I have to LIE to COVER HIS AFFAIR? AHHHH!! So I got ANGRY! (BAD IDEA). I know...I know... 2x4 please. So the next time OW called I let it all out. Told her that we were together Sunday, and went shopping, told her everything. WHY SHOULD I LIE TO COVER HIS AFFAIR?
So...she got IRRATE! It ended up in big brawl and he came here asking me why I would do that to him. He confided in me and now I am ruining his life. He didn't come in the house, just stood at the door. He left after a few minutes. Then she called about a half hour later and asked if he had come here. I said yes, and she said he came to her house and got his cell phone and said he would pick up his clothes in the morning. Well okay so this morning he called from her house saying he hated me, never wanted to see me again etc. I said I was sorry he felt that way. He said he confided in me and I turned on him and stabbed him in the back. I said I didn't mean for him to feel like I was stabbing him in the back. I told him that the kids really miss him, and he said he DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THEM. OMG. I said 'excuse me'? He said that he didn't ever want to see me again, and that meant not seeing them. I am trying to ruin his happiness. I told him I was sorry for him and the kids and that I would talk to him later. What does everyone think about this whole big mess? I was talking to a mutual friend of my WH and I that lives back home and he said he agreees in the PLan B approach. Right now WH does not want anything to do with me, and he is really down a bad path, but he can't see that.
Well that is it....
The night was crazy. I messed up BIG TIME by talking to the OW. Plan B is for break.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PLease end this lunacy for your children's sake. CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT DESRUCTION THIS IS GOING TO BE WITH THEM IF YOU CONTINUE WITH THIS MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOr CHrist sakes, this isn't about marriage building now. PROTECT YOUR CHILDEN FROM THIS. Continuing to pursue your WH now including sleeping with him is textbook doormat behavior. AT this point, I cannot belive that anyone in their right mond could advise you to stay in PLan A and not consider divorce. I will NEVER EVER EVER get why people let themselves be treated like this. WAs this outcome what Harely says is acceptable in the "recovery" process?????

Lemon,
I have a plan B letter posted.. I will begin Plan B on Monday. I need a break. The man I married and built a life with is NOT this man. If he can find the old man I would love to re-build our marriage, but not with THIS man. As far as what Harley says about the recovery process I am not sure...as I am not there.
I just look at myself and the sitation, and I think back to even 6 months ago...and I can't believe it.
Danielle