Does anyone have any advice on how I should handle the car title issue with her?

The only options that come to mind are,

1, Agree to do exactly what she wants and send her a notified letter saying I'll sign it over once the loan is paid off.

2, Tell her I'll sign the title over after the loan is paid.

3,Tell her I'm not going to sign it over.

4,Ignore her.

And how would I go about wording it so I don't sound controlling?

Hey TTSi:

Controlling conshmolling! You are in Plan B. Don't do anything that makes things easy for her. IMHO she could very well be testing the waters. But, and a big but, at that; What do YOU want to do? Have you seen a lawyer? Can you put it in the division of properties? AND, why now? My suspicious mind wants to know!

I have talked to a lawyer a couple of times to keep myself advised of my rights. I've never asked him this specific question, But what I do with this doesn't really have any bearing on anything I don't think. Its a community property state, so she'd get that car anyway. I have my own.

What do I want to do? I honestly don't know. I have helped her in the past during all this, hoping it would make a difference in her wanting to come home. I'm sure it has made her think, as we have had some false recoveries. But I really don't see that working anymore. Maybe its time to just tell her no.

The problem I have with that is, that car has always been her car. I've had mine, she's had hers. The car might as well be in her name, as it being that way, does protect me a bit better,
as far as her getting in an accident or something like that.

What I'm worried about, and the worry comes from instinct, is that she wants the notarized letter so that she can stop paying on the loan herself and expect me to finish paying it, while she has some ownership of it. I think that letter may make it harder for them to repo the car if the loan goes default. That's what I'm personally reading from this. Unless someone else has any other thoughts that come to mind, this makes the most logical sense to me.

TTSi,

I just read your sig thread. I wanted to comment to you on some stuff. I hope this provides you with some strength in moving forwards in an appropriate fashion.

This OM, well, he sounds like a loser. Both mentally and financially. I'm guessing on the financial because of his actions and his disrespect of his wife and his children. It sounds like no support is going their way (which, in some states, is cause for jail time!!! I'm hoping your PI is advising his wife of that).

Anyways. Back to the real story I wanted to tell you:

My mother had an affair...and the timing was one of which no one really knows who my father is. I haven't done blood test, as physially, I look like the guy who I call my father. But, the affair destroyed the marriage. My parents divoriced within a few months of my birth. My mother got custody, as that was how it went back then...the woman always got the kids. She went and married the OM...and moved us away from my dad. The OM made us call our father by his name, and beat us thoroughly (I have a brother and a sister), including my mother. Eventually, my mother pulled a gun on him, to get him to leave us alone. That was the end of it. But, it was 3 years later I believe. At that point, my mother finally realized what she had done, and cost herself, and her children. She TRASHED her life from then on out...(some might say it's just her personality type, but, I think it's deeper, I think it's self inflicted punishment). She begged my father to take her back on multiple occasions, but he had already moved forwards. She had no children but his, so the way clear in that sense, but, my father had met another lady, and they were expecting a child...

If my father had waited it out...I believe they would have gotten back together, for the sake of the children if anything. But, I think as adults, we can work a marriage to love, even if initially it is just for the kids. My mother is on her 5th marriage now...I went through abusive step-father after abusive step-father... police calls, run aways, counseling, coustody battles... all of it. Amongst all of that, I never learned how to trust someone. But, even worse, I never learned how to love someone. I knew how to be in love, but not to express love in a postive heatlhy fashion.

My mother never paid a price for her transgressions...she ran from them her whole life. Even up to today, she is trying to 'earn' her way out of her misery, without ever facing up to the challenge of what she did. I faced all of this, square on during the course of my wife's affair. It was no easy task, but I challenged myself with it finally. I would do this right.

In the end, the threat of it all being over was what brought my wife home. It wasn't exposure. It was exposure would happen the next day. She wanted an excuse to leave me, anything...but, she couldn't. The fact stood, I was her husband, and I was 'right' by being here. I would have filed for the divorice. I would have immediately moved forwards towards sole custody. And, here...if the spouse leaves the house...it's a form of abandonment, and the spouse that stays home and raises the children, they get extreme preference in court.

I would have moved on. I'm confident of it. Thankfully, and regretfully, I didn't have to. A deep part of me yearns for that moment when I would have said to her, it is over. I wanted her to be in a spot where she rejected the OM of her own choosing, knowing I was gone...instead of this 'doing me a favor' type thing, where she came home on her own. As you can see, it's a very tender spot still for me. And I will hit one year on monday, the 6th. I wouldn't have persued another relationship...I'm not saying it might not have happened, but I don't think it would have. I know where she was headed, I had lived it as a child. I was intent on lasting as long as I could, raising my kids as a single father. But, I didn't have to go that route.

Point is, where you are at...plan a, plan b, plan c...really....you are not where you want or need to be. You need to cut her free, and watch the cookies crumble. Send her on her way, and let the OM deal with her..especially when the child starts demanding things, and his nature comes out. You have already been given a sample of his anger. You know what is gonna happen.

It all comes down to what you believe. Do you think that right now you are honestly showing your wife love by the way you two are? If not, then how would be the best way to show you love her? imo, it would be to file the divorice, and unfortunately, the quicker the better...so that her life with OM can crumble, and you KNOW it will... so, do you trust God?

RookKev,

Thank you so much for sharing that story with me.
I'm sorry you had to go through that as a child. While my upbringing was not as 'bad' We do share one thing, Neither of us got to see our parents in a happy, successful marriage. We didn't have anything to model our future relationships on.
That is probably the deepest scar that coming from a broken home leaves.

Oh, which reminds me, I'd like to give a huge
F-You to those that think that kids 'will adjust'
to divorce. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm grateful you spent the time to write all that up for me. I have a lot to think about. I've screwed up a lot in life and in marriage. I've done plenty that I am not proud of and have many regrets. For my future sanity, I have to be absolutely sure I do this thing right. At least this. My beliefs right now (and previously) have been that I'm not for divorce. Do I sacrifice that for the chance that W might wake up if I file? I just don't know. She's already been telling people that we are already divorced, and making up stories of how she met OM. Pure fantasy, yes.

Do I trust God? Right now if I honestly answer that, my answer would have to be I don't know.
So many times I've been on my hands and knees crying and begging for his help, but I have yet to see his work. Yeah, I know people say God works on his time only. But it's our time, and our marriage that needs the help now.

TTsi,

I would agree with the adjusting statement, big time...kids do adjust, unfortunately, the adjustments are almost always negative rather than postitive. That doesn't mean I don't believe in some divorices...sometimes you must make moves of protection.

In your case, well...I truely understand how you feel about divorice, I was and am the same way. It took alot of talking with my wife for her to start to see that if I wanted a divorice, I have scriptural grounds for it. She still disagrees, but, I think that will come around in time...right now, it's a point of pride for her...she doesn't like thinking about me actually being the one saving the marriage. She wants to be the one by coming home...that whole issue. These things aren't said, they are just the way I interpret statements and behaviors. I tend to just try and smile when she says something silly...I know time will change that idea... all I gotta do is keep on loving.

Trusting God. It's tough. But, what you have to understand, God wants you to be in harmony with Him. Perhaps life with your wife will not allow you to be there....as things stand. I'm sure you know the story, and I can't believe I'm forgetting it...of the man who set his wife free in the Bible, and eventually, ended up buying her broken shell back...and all was restored (eventually-interestingly enough, we are given the medicine for curing an affair-he locked her away for a time (no contact)). You are ok to move forwards, and find your place to walk with God. I believe in your spot, it will require you to sever the ties to your wife...financial, and physical. My personal belief is although it feels so final to put it on paper, the actual divorice, is that you are still married, in God's eyes. (Some will probably argue this point...) So, unless your wife marries again, you are still married to her (although, I must admit, I'm not sure how this plays out in God's eyes...well, of course I'm not sure, but, you know what I mean... with adultery being the grounds for the divorice. However, until you ask God to bind you to another in marriage, I believe you are still bound to your spouse. Perhaps in situations of adultery, God allows the needs that normally would be met by your wife to be fulfilled by Him, if you are remaining true to the Lord during the separation. I'm sure that this could turn into a very neat theological debate...

Back to you. She's pretending all of these things. They add to her excitement. Take away the fantasies, each and every one of them...not in contempt, but in your own decisions. My wife was living inside of her little web of lies, I had to strip away just a few of the shreds that needed to be...just to show her, this is the truth, and now I am done. It angered her, because, pretend land wasn't there anymore, it was life, and everyone has their failings.

If you've become aware of your failings in the marriage, and tried to change them, of your own desire...and this is tough, as the BH we will change just to win...I am MAN, I can WIN, I can beat HIM...if you've planned a for 3+ months, you've more than proven the desire to change. Maybe not the total transformation yet, but come on...that is a cop out, change happens with time. If you've plan b'd, how long? DId you set a timeframe..? Is it passed? Is there a plan?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RookKev:
<strong> If you've become aware of your failings in the marriage, and tried to change them, of your own desire...and this is tough, as the BH we will change just to win...I am MAN, I can WIN, I can beat HIM...if you've planned a for 3+ months, you've more than proven the desire to change. Maybe not the total transformation yet, but come on...that is a cop out, change happens with time. If you've plan b'd, how long? DId you set a timeframe..? Is it passed? Is there a plan? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Going back to the beginning, we separated in early Nov. 2003. I began counseling on my own near the end of Nov. I didn't know for sure there was an A going on until Jan. I knew that if we were to ever try to work this out, that I needed to handle my issues. Not about being better than OM, I already was just by default.
When W and I started going to counseling together, she remarked to the counselor that she knew I had changed and knew it for sure. Our counselor, knew I had as well. So it wasn't a rouse, (sp?) and W knew that. Even though I didn't know what it was called, (Hadn't discovered the site yet) I was pretty much Plan Aing throughout. Plan B began, end of July 2004.
When does Plan B end for me? I have not set a date. I know I probably stayed in plan A for too long, all out of fear I'm sure. W pretty much stopped trying to get me to interact with her in Sept 2004. Until the recent emails.

{{{TTSi}}}
You sound like you are going through a very hard time. THat oh so horrific roller coaster ride, right?

A couple of things. You said that you aren't sure about God helping you. Please consider this: Perhaps he has shown you the MB forum and the principles as a way for you to deal with this.

Please don't get me wrong, I would call myself spiritual but am not a church goer. I believe in God. But I have found that too many of God's children spend far too much time acting God instead of living a godly life. Make Sense?

I get the feeling that you are not sure whether Plan B or Plan D is the right thing to do. I guess you are the only one that can decide that. As long as you protect yourself, financially as well as emotionally, do what you need to do.

But (you knew that was coming right?), has your WW made any positive moves in the last year? Are you still in love with her? Are you waiting to live, or are you living right now? Where is your head and your heart? Are they together?

Just food for thought. Not a DJ, I hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by fightingalone-again:
<strong> {{{TTSi}}}

I get the feeling that you are not sure whether Plan B or Plan D is the right thing to do. I guess you are the only one that can decide that. As long as you protect yourself, financially as well as emotionally, do what you need to do.

But (you knew that was coming right?), has your WW made any positive moves in the last year? Are you still in love with her? Are you waiting to live, or are you living right now? Where is your head and your heart? Are they together?

Just food for thought. Not a DJ, I hope. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sort of, I know that I need to be in Plan B. At least for right now.
W has made some moves in the past year during my period of plan Aing. We had a few false recoveries for sure. I honestly do feel that she wanted to come home, and we were working towards that goal with our counselor. When she backed out the first time, it definitely floored the C we were seeing. He did know us both very well.

Am I waiting to live or living right now. That's a tough one to answer. I think I'm somewhere in between. I have moved forward with things in my life, changed careers, made some goals/plans for the future, but I'm still looking back, praying that she joins me, if that makes sense. I'm probably closer to waiting to live though.

I think my head and my heart are where they need to be. My heart wants her to come home. My head tells me how hard it will be if she does.

Hey, TTSi: Good afternoon/evening?

How ya doin' today? Any better? Any clearer idea of where you need to go?

I am off to take my DD indoor rock-climbing and dinner for my eldest DD's 25th Birthday. And maybe karaoke. If you hear the sound of glass breaking, that's me! No chance of me going up a darn wall, I will stand and watch. Yikes, a chair is too high for me; let alone a wall. GULP!

So, I'm saying a prayer for you and know my thoughts are with you.

Thanks FAA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm just out the door as well. Going to the big city tonite with my brother. Should be good to get out for once.

Hey TTSi, I have not been on the computer too much lately as I am on that overseas trip with H....can't believe I am here. I just wanted to send a message of support. I think your WS is "fishing" by asking the same question that you have answered several times.

It doesn't matter right now because you are moving on with your live You are making plans for yourself while still retaining the possibility of having WS join you if she defogs...could happen soon.

You are out in the big city, treating yourself to a good time!!! That is living your life! I say Great...am really proud of you.

Just wanted to send a message of support. Things are going well so far for H and I....you were right...watch out for LB's. Had a little bout with it, but we were able to work through it. Tried to control myself...but lost it for a little while...got myself back.

Anyway..take care...TTSI...glad to know you are kicking up your heels. Keep your eye out for a new hobby/interest. God bless,ss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well she sent me another email. Reminding me to call the insurance agent because my insurance is about to expire (On my car.) She doesn't know that I've got it insured down here in TX now.
What really upset me was just something small.
the email 'name' it came from this time was
"OM & WW" whereas before it was just her name.
kind of upsetting... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

{{{TTSi}}} That email was something else. Perhaps I am just naturally suspicious. Gee I wonder why? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The possible scenarios I see:
1.) She sent from that email to let you know that she and OM are still together. Perhaps a cowardly heads up to let you know instead of telling you in person or on the phone?
2.) Is it possible that she is trying to get you to react to this and perhaps pursue her some more? i.e Save her from herself?
3.) Is this her way of telling you that she is about to file for D? i.e. tying up loose ends? Like breaking all financial ties via insurance her car, etc?

I am sure there are more but that is what my first thoughts were when I read this. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Those are all very possible reasons.
My gut reaction is that she is asking me to do that so that somehow she can weasle out of the loan payment, keep the car and leave me stuck with the bill.

But it's just a thought.

I did end up giving her my new address, and told her not to worry about my insurance, as I have coverage down here now. Didn't mention anything else. But then she replied back to me with her previous email 'name' mentioning the notarized letter again. I haven't responded to that one.

You know, TTSi. I really hate WSs today. I have no sympathy and a lot of contempt for the pain they are causing everyone. Not very MB attitude.

I just cannot see how they can act in such a dreadful, hateful way. Sorry, I am not being a help today. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I don't know how they can act this way either.
I just hope against hope that the real person underneath isn't completely dead.

It's Ok, You don't need to be of help today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Besides, there isn't much to help with right now anyway.

((((((((TTSi)))))))))

I am going to go out on a limb here.....and this is just a "gut feeling" I have.....but I think your WW is in some sort of warped way, trying to convince herself that she is happy - and that her needs are being taken care of.

But let's look at some things:

1) Her e-mails to you to 'remind you' of your insurance - If she were really happy and not wanting you in her life anymore, then she would let you take your own responsibility for these things.....not 'feel the need' to remind you, and help you out. This is her desire to feel 'needed.'

2) Lying 'around' the family - She is trying to convince everyone that she is not a 'bad' person. That this is all 'in the name of love.' This is a manifestation of her guilt.

3) Her name and OM's name on the same e-mail account - this is pure braggodocio....there is absolutely no reason for her to put both their names on the account....that is, unless, she if feeling insecure with her and OM's R.....which will happen sooner or later anyhow. Putting his name on the account as well "shows" they are together. But if she were truly happy, content, getting all her EN's met, etc - she would be able to have her own e-mail account - ALONE. This is her insecurity with OM and her R.

I may be off mark here, but it seems like she is doing an awful lot of oversompensating, and generally trying to convince herself she is happy. When, in fact, she is clearly NOT!

OTOH.....You must remember that you are in Plan B, and that you need to start looking out for yourself. You can still work on yourself, but quit trying to prove yourself to WW - Look more toward proving you to yourself!

In addition, the thing I have to keep reminding myself (on a VERY regular basis) is: It doesn't matter why he did those things. It doesn't matter what his motivation was for writing. He did, and I must not respond. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Now it is up to me to look out for my own best interests.....do the same for yourself.

As for the car - do what will benefit you the most. Don't revert back to the 'controlling' behavior......but there is a distinction from someone being 'proactive' and 'protective' vs being 'controlling.'


Now, if I could only remember to follow my own advice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TTSi:
<strong>...What really upset me was just something small.
the email 'name' it came from this time was
"OM & WW" whereas before it was just her name.
kind of upsetting... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Block that revised addy name. She will wonder what is wrong with her e-mail address and maybe foggy enough to get a new one. LOL!!!!

L.I.T.,
thank you for your thoughts. I think there is some truth there. Especially about her trying to convince herself that all is ok and their R is so great. WW is definitely trying to convince family that what she's doing is ok.
She's smart enough to know that it is not right, why else would she have to make up a story about how all this went down to try to get some family members on her side? Luckily, they all have their morals, and got to the people she was lying to and told them the truth. I think that side of the family could be my only saving grace in this. They are not going to budge.
Definitely looking out for myself, and improving myself, as hard as it is. It's enough to endure this, much harder to reflect on it as it's happening to try to learn from it.

Orchid,
Not a bad idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Although it is possible that W accidently sent it from that 'name.' I'm sure she'll write more. We'll see where it comes from next time.