Hi everyone-I am a newbie. I am 26 and H is 25-we have been married 5 yrs and together for 7. We have 2 kids-S-3 and D-1. Our 3 yr old is special needs.

H left almost 3 mths ago claiming he wasn't happy and had lost feelings for me. Since then he has called every day-not one day has went by when I didn't talk to him. He came by a LOT in the beginning-layed around, ate, watched TV....but I told him he couldn't do that anymore-he couldn't act like he lives here and be gone. So-now he comes by and keeps the kids on Sat and Sun while I work. I work 11 am to 11 pm those 2 days only.

About a mth ago I found out he has been "going out to eat" w/ a good friend of mine-well she WAS a good friend of mine. She watched our kids for us...she went on vacation w/ us-her and her little girl. The she stopped returning my calls and after I pressured H enough he admitted that he "needed someone to talk to" and he turned to her. I have talked to her and she says she is sorry-whatever. He says she makes him happy and she listens to him and she doesn't nag-well duh! She doesn't live w/ him either!!

Guess that brings you up to date-basicly. Now here is what happened the past few days:

Fri-H and OW were seen christmas shopping at Old Navy w/ her daughter. that hurt So bad-I called his cell phone and asked if he was having fun w/ them in Old Navy. He tried to deny it and then admitted to it and we yelled and fought the rest of the day. he told me I forgot I was in a marriage after our son was born and I neglected him and to leave him alone.

So Sat he came by to watch the kids while I worked. We exchanged a couple of remarks and I left-he was so cold and like he didn't care about what he had done or how much he was hurting me and the kids. I asked him if his kids were old enough to know what he was doing Fri didn't he think it would have hurt them? Why wasn't he thinking of them if he loved them so much??? So later on in the day I saw I had a voice mail on my cell so I checked it and it was him. He talked until it cut him off. He was crying-telling me how hard this was for him, telling me how sorry he was, how he didn't want to hurt me anymore, how he didn't know WHY he changed and WHY he lost feelings for me, how all this has just turned into putting me through misery, how me and the kids were suffering, how he didn't handle any of this right-he went about it the wrong way, how he should have talked to me more, how he didn't know what to do, how much he loved the kids, how he regreted starting a relationship...then ended it saying he guessed I should go ahead and call a lawyer b/c it was the best thing.

So Sun I didn't talk to him much at all. Today he called this morning and asked how the kids were and I said fine and he said give them a kiss for me and I said ok. Then he asked why I was mad and I said I am not mad, -how do you want me to be-you tell me and I will be it. And he said no-never mind I just wanted to know about the kids and I should have left it at that. Then I got a call from a lawyer-but it is to expensive right now-we will have to wait until the beginning of the yr. So I called him and told him and he was like oh-ok...all quite and I said well-I know you wanted this as soon as possible but I can't afford it right now and he was like no-thats ok. I don't think he thought I would really call.....but he knew if he pushed me hard enough I would.

In his message you could hear the regret, doubt, pain.....but he won't admit it! And he was over it an hr later-and acted like he had never even called-I never mentioned it and neither did he-he just shoved it all back down. His mom talked to him Sat before he called me and she gave him an ear full I think. She asked him last Sunday if he thought it might be better to try to work it out and he said maybe and then she said well-you could go to counceling first and he said I guess-like he was going to try!!! AUGH!!!!!!!! Confusion!

Any and all comments are welcome. He still says he has lost feelings and we are through-but his actions don't show that....I don't know what to do anymore. I am ok-I had a hard time at first-but after meds and therapy I am doing better...but this see-sawing is crappy.

Thanks for listening!

Hi S&TM,

Welcome to MB and sorry you are here. Both you and your H are quite young t/b growing through all this. Then again, there is no good age to be going through stuff like this.

Please read the concept section above. I commend you on how you have handled yourself thusfar. Taking care of a special needs child is also a challenge for which you s/b commended. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

When you can get with a good MC. Steve Harley @ MB does phone counseling and is quite good with WSH's.

Take the Emotional Needs questionnaire. Once as yourself and once as your H's personality. Then read the books: Surviving an affair and His Needs/Her Needs.

Realize when he speaks nonsense, to him it may make sense or he maybe trying to convince himself it makes sense. In reality it doesn't. You don't have to listen to that type of fog babble but you should listen to his words when they are truthful.

That is why your telling him the home was not a place for him to come and go was a good thing. He needs to understand how valuable you all are. He can't be a parttime dad and lover. He needs to be a FT dad and H.

Keep posting. U R doing good.

take care,
L.

I Love You But I am Not In Love With You (also known as ILYBNILWY). Fog-talk.

You have a special needs child who needed your attention. Your H was slighted. He turned to your friend (bad choice) and she listened and gave him attention. Chances are he's been seeing this OW for some time, which is how he got into the ILYBNILWY mindset in the first place.

Things changed between you. OK. So, let's set them right.

You get into counseling together and he moves back home to work on the marriage. OW is out of the picture or no deal. YOU begin to meet all of his needs so he doesn't feel he needs to go to her.

How do you know what his needs are? Print out the Emotional Needs questionnaire on this site and you both fill it out and discuss it. You might both be in for a surprise at each other's answers.

Get and read "Surviving an Affair" by Harley, or "After the Affair" by Springs. Also pick up "His Needs, Her Needs," also by Harley. If you can afford it, also get "Not Just Friends," by Glass.

Some of these titles can be found at your local library, too.

Bone up on Plan A. Be as pleasant and loving as possible without issuing Lovebusters: disrespectful judgments, etc.... The two of you journey back to the beginning, when things were good. You work out ways to meet each other's needs, despite your high-needs child or any other obstacle you uncover (I am not saying your son is an obstacle... I mean that you have to figure out a way to meet each other's EN while still caring for your son and daughter).

You can make this work. But right now, as the Betrayed Spouse (BS) the work falls to you primarily. I know. Unfair. But so it is.

Keep posting. Others will come along with advice. Listen and ponder (while you're reading those books I mentioned up above! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Above all, don't lose heart.

~ Snow

H refuses and kind of counceling or talk of reconciliation right now-he says the marriage is "dead". I see a councelor right now-a good christian man that helps a lot. I rely a lot on faith. I doubt H would take the questionnares either.

He claims that the OW didn't start until after he left-but I find it hard to believe. Everyone sae it but me-my parents, his parents, friends....and I was so blind-I trusted her and him. I feel so stupid!!! Oh well.

Anyway-thanks for the advice. I am kinda not knowing what to do...especially since he insists it is over-but I worry he will regret it when he sees what he has truly done...but I can't change him-I can only work on ME and change me-and I have since he left. My faith has grown, I have seen how controlling I was, how hateful and stressed I was-and I am working on all that. I own my part in the marriage-but not all of it....although I did at first!

Thanks guys!

Good! Your plan is starting to take shape. It usually takes a while before the BS realizes they can't control the WS. You are ahead of the game a bit. That's great!!!

Now go and work on you. Don't take his blame or his guilt. ok?

Snowbelle has a good post. Ponder her response and get ahold of those books she suggested. They are all very good.

take care,
L.

Well-H made his daily phone call to check on the kids. He talked and talked and talked. He talked about them....about christmas....everything-and all I wanted to do is GO. He told me to give them a kiss-he said "I know you don't but please do" and I said "OK". He kept saying "well-guess I'll let you go-ok? Have a good day and call me if you need me" I said "OK-bye". He really didn't want to get off the phone today for some reason. I hate mind games-drives me crazy! Why can't he just say he wants to work on things and he misses us IF he does and if not then so be it. I don't know what is going on w/ him-no one does. he never talks about anything-never did. He did say he thought he had chronic fatigue b/c he couldn't get enough sleep. I didn't say anything-but I think he is depressed. Oh well-thats it....he won't call again today-he usually doesn't. Used to he came by all the time until I told him I couldn't deal w/ that....I feel guilty about that but I need to heal somehow and I couldn't w/ him here all the time. I hope it was the right thing to do.

Anyway-thanks for listening!

Hi guys-just wondering if anyone is out there tonight? I am ok-a little bored...a little sad feeling tonight-I hope I'm not cycling back down into being sad and upset. I have been doing ok the past couple of weeks.

I caught myself thinking about H and all the things we would be doing getting ready for the holidays together-so that got me upset. Today I thought about calling him but I didn't! I held back-I wanted to but I didn't want to-I was afraid he would be w/ OW anyway. He called this morning anyway and I was the one that wanted to hurry off of the phone. I never call him anymore-he always does.

I just wish I knew what was going on in his head-you know? I wish I knew what his heart was REALLY feeling-not what he says or even what he may think-but what is really in there. I wish I knew what the future was gonna hold.

I hate the idea of divorce-it goes against everything I believe....I vowed before God to love this man forever and it kills me to think that may not happen. I worry about it a lot-I know God will forgive me (seeing as I have no choice if he continues to not want to work on things) but it is NOT the way I wanted my babies raised. I know life can't be perfect-but it would be nice for it to be "easy" once in a while-seems like it has been a long time since mine has been easy.

SIGH.....oh well-guess I'm done w/ my pity party. Sorry guys for being a downer....just ignore me-lol. Thanks for reading (if you still are :-))

i'm new online so excuse my "chatting" inadequecies-my husband/partner of 14yrs had been caught @ the end of Sept. he had been having a so called "kissing" affair w/ow since apprx. mid-august but has had attractions for approx 3-4 yrs-since meeting (she works as fitness instructor @ gym) H & i returned fr.honeymoon Jan 2001 and H felt ashamed of his weight (all the margaritas!) he got right into working out - so into it that he lost over 501bs w/in 6mos then he began fitness instructing (w/encouragement fr. OW) parttime then w/goals of doing an IronMan competititon - he completed Ironman this past August w/a very good time - but at a cost to our marriage as i had little desire to swim, run + bike LOONG distances - im more a 8 k, leisurely bike ride, suntan by the pool kinda girl. He found that OW stroked his ego - she wanted to train for triathalons too-thats where it all went bad. she has a husband of many years w/3 beautiful daughters - we do not have children (whew) Over these past harsh couple mos. I have tried to own up to my inability to give him what he needs and have done my best to support him and mend past hurts. after 1 mos since the discovery - we still lived together-did our daily things-i hoped he was seriously wanting it to resolve but it turns out - he too was "addicted" and could not stop communicating w/OW I found out and have taken the steps to seperate in hopes he could focus on himself w/hopes to reconcile (as we discussed) we have been living apart for apprx 1 mos. I feel he is going about life w/out a hitch he does not seem to be making an effort to change old habits he is, however still continueing w/councelling - i have put a hold on it. I try to tell him he must stay away fr. OW - she is a distraction. he always agrees but now i think he has been away fr.OW for the past few weeks (i hope) he gives me mixed emotions he crys and states how he hurt me kills him, hes lost/lonely and how now he thinks about events in the past for ie: i had a bit of an accident where I could have seriously injured myself or poss. worse (I ended up w/brkn arm swollen face-not too bad) he reflects the feeling of seeing that and how he almost "lost"me. he says all these loving things and wishes he could change past events but then he continues to do things to sabotage our recovery to marriage-he seems to lie alot - he never tells me OW called and he felt compelled to call her back...etc and then i catch him in the lie. does he truly NOT love me anymore and sees no hope in a future together but does not know how to say this? OR does he love me but the guilt is too much for him to bear and he does not know how to correct the situation.? any advice...close friends are so quick to say "move on-you deserve better" "actions speak louder than words" etc...

My H also started working out and doing the Atkins diet in Oct 2003. He lost 60 lbs and became obsessed w/ going to the gym, w/ what he ate, w/ how much he weighed, etc. I started complaining about all the time he spent at the gym....what he ate, etc-I don't know why it bothered me but it got under my skin that he cared so much about HIMself. It was selfish of me. In the back of my mind I always wondered if he lost weight he would leave and not be happy w/ me anymore to. Dr. Phil says "that which we fear most we create"....I think that is what I did. The funny thing his OW now is bigger than I am....so I know he didn't leave b/c of that. he says he didn't leave for her at all-that they didn't start up until AFTER he left but I have a hard time believing that. Anyway-hang in there-good times are ahead!

Ok-I need some advice here.......b/c H is driving me NUTS! So he called this morning like always to check on the kids. Well-let me back up....when he called and I answered he said "how are ya" and I said "fine". I was kinda distant w/ him-just answering what he asked. So he said "you just don't feel like talking to me anymore do you?". I said "I'm fine-why?" and he said "nevermind". Then he asked about the kids....told me he just wanted to call and see how I was doing...then he said "well-tell them I love them...I know you won't but please do". He says this every day-like I am some kind of monster sitting here feeding their head full of mean things about him. First off-they are 1 and 3 so they wouldn't understand anyway (the 3 yr old is special needs). Secondly-I DO NOT talk bad about him to them, but I also don't sing his praises every minuet either. So I got mad and I told him "listen-I don't sit here talking about you all day-they know you love them and they know that you are "daddy" and you come and go". Probably NOt the best thing to say-but geez I get tired of being accused of doing stuff I'm not doing! So he was like "well-ok-whatever....thanks for saying that....I guess your perfect...you put me in your place....I'm getting off of here-bye". So-then, of course-I felt guilty for hurting his feelings.....like he has never hurt mine?? So I called him back and told him I was sorry if I hurt his feelings, I didn't mean to, and I don't talk bad about him. He said "ok-whatever". Then I told him bye and got off the phone. He acted so upset....why-if he is SO miserable won't he help himself. I asked him why he had to call and make me miserable as well....when I am trying to be happy and get on w/ things. HE is the onle that left-and now he acts as if I threw him out. Why is he so mopey acting if this is what he wants??? It all just drives me nuts. Every conversation turns into him telling me how perfect I am when I NEVER say I am perfect-but he always throws that in my face! I know he feels guilty and he is taking it out on me....but I am just tired of the whole MESS!!! AUGH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Anyway-thanks for listening!

WS! I tell you. Where their heads are I will never know. Mine was gone for 2 days over Thanksgiving and seemed surprised when I sounded hostile and cold on the phone.

Funny how they all say they're drifting apart from BS when it's usually the BS who is in the mainstream with the family. Just who is drifting?

Fog bound idiots! Do yourself a favor and go look at the reverse babble section somebody has on their posts.

What is reverse babble? I know what you mean-I seem to be getting through this better now than he is! He is the one that can't get out of bed, he is the one calling for idle chit-chat, he is the one drifting around in a FOG not enjoying anything. I know he is regretting what he has done-and now he is upset, guilty, etc about it-but I am tired of worrying about it. Either poop or get off the pot...know what I mean?

Exactly! In many ways, I think the BS has more support. I ALMOST feel sorry for my WH sometimes. He has a high pressure, stressful job, an hour drive to her house, kids that aren't even his own at her house to deal with, all that quality time with her, the drive back (odd but he does come back), and then our disapproval on this end. Plus, he doesn't have anybody who he can discuss it with except HER.

Thank God for my supportive family and friends.

Reverse babble is sort of active listening. They try to insult you by saying you're fat. You defuse it by saying, "Yes I have gained some weight." Not the best example. Others here are MUCH better at it.

Ok-thanks-I will check it out. I don't know-it just feels so wierd to be the strong one-YET AGAIN-when I didn't even choose this in the first place! But-whatever. I am not looking forward to Sat-I work weekends at the same place H and OW work 2 nd shift through the week-and they have to work over so they will be there Sat. I don't work w/ them and they don't work together-hopefully I won't have to see either one of them. I am just so tired of all this crap-you know? I'm tired fo waiting for him to grow up.

I wholeheartedly agree. When will WS grow up? Be glad you are a strong person. I think it's good to have an inner core of strength and values. Through the years of my marriage, I've moved from the rolemodels my parent's marriage provided to something else. I suppose I expect him to be the strong husband, make decisions and be Beaver Cleaver's dad. It was not to be. Over time, I filled this vaccuum and he faded from our lives. A presence, yes but not a strong involved husband and parent. I wished I'd nipped it in the bud years ago but he'd never talk or agree to MC.

He may never grow up. He'll just grow different. Celebrate your strength. It means you're there for your kids and yourself. My kids know who is the person who holds things together in our family. It may not have been my 1st choice but somebody has to do it.

Hi guys-well today was pretty uneventful. I talked to H for just a few minutes this morning-just to ask him a question-nothing major. I am beginning to wonder if I miss him anymore-it really doesn't feel like I do. I don't really care anymore if we work this out or not-it just seems so much more peaceful and quiet and easy w/out him. I miss what COULD have been I guess-a fantasy maybe.....but the reality I don't know if I care to visit again. Oh sure, I wish he would wake up and be the man we need him to be, but if he doesn't I really do think we are going to be ok! Me and the kids will make it-we will be happy and whole w/out him.....he is the one that is missing out on VERY precious years. Anyone else feel this way? Sorry for rambling, guys!

Hi guys-thought I would post an update. Nothing much new has happened since I last posted. H was supposed to come over yesterday and see the kids so I could run some errands but he called and said his battery was dead in his car and he had to get that fixed before it was time for him to go to work (he works 2nd shift). That was fine w/ me-I was dreading seeing him anyway. He said "well-I hate it b/c I was excited about coming over" This week was the first week he went ALL week w/out visiting. He did call every single day though. I hate to admit it but it was nice to not have to worry about him coming by and not knowing how to act. It was MUCH more peaceful. I got the vibe from him that he is pretty upset about it all though-every time he calls he sounds so down and sad.....but I didn't do this-HE did. Somehow it has turned into me feeling bad for something he did! If this is what he wanted-if he was SO unhappy before-then how come he isn't happy now? The one thing I have learned through all this is you can't rely on someone else for your happiness. I was so devastated when he left-I was leaning on him so much for my own happiness that I thought I would die w/out him in my life. Thats stupid. Only God and myself can make me happy. Sure-it still hurts that he chose not to be w/ me and the kids-but he is the ultimate looser. I think he is starting to realize that, but I am doubtful he will ever admit it-to much pride. Thats ok-I will survive!

Well-gotta jump off of here-gotta work today and tomorrow. H is coming to sit w/ the kids until he goes to work-then they are going to my moms. Unfortunately-H and OW both have to work over tonight-but I am in a different part so I shouldn't have to see them. They don't work together-all 3 of us are in different places. Still makes me sick to think that those 2 did what they did to me-but they deserve each other-so whatever.

Toodles!