KMEJ - There were some "last straw" type things - he put our 4 yr old in the middle and told her to lie for him, among other things that I found out about all at once after 7 months of Plan A (too long). I also found out (from OW- my "friend")he was planning on moving out while I was visiting my sister, and that he'd "given God a 6 month deadline to change his heart" and that deadline had already passed. Meanwhile he was taking advantage of my desperation to save the marriage - enjoying A LOT of SF, etc.

My eyes were opened to the insanity of it all, and I also saw how unhealthy I had become both emotionally and physically. I was barely functioning.

After I returned and he move out, I was extremely unhealthy in every sense of the word and I became basically divorced myself from the marriage. He found a way (or I gave him a way) to make me look responsible and then he filed.

And it has been HARD, but I look back and wonder how on earth I took what I did for so long, and I wouldn't trade anything to go back to that 7 months of hell.

I truly hope you can save your marriage. But I hope it's a MARRIAGE you save, and not an emotionally abusive relationship, which is what your'e in right now. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"OK - you all are right. I am not ready to leave. Can you all help me to work on myself so that I feel strong enough to enforce my boudaries, and maybe then I will be ready to make another decision."

OR

"OK - you all are right. I am not ready to leave. Please just support me, and let me vent about my H. I do want to be married to him no matter what because I depend on him to be a part of my life."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both those statements are so true. I just do not know how to put them into words. Also I rather felt I could not. I want to be a stronger person, I want to stand up for myself more. I also do not want to fail in my marriage. I am just not sure how to go about doing both of these things. I am not ready to kick H to the curb as I am terrified of being alone, but am also terrified of being with him. I want to find happiness with him, so I am working on finding it in myself first.

Thank you LIT for pointing that out to me, honest.

Faith-
I want for a marriage as well. You are correct in that currently this is not a real marriage. I too am trying to meet all of his needs, and he too is taking advantage of the situation. As soon as I am not doing what he wants he says "See I knew you would never change". I get hurt and angry at the same time whenever he says that. I have been standing up for myself more lately (honest) and H really does not know what to do with me. My problem is not backing down. Does anyone have any suggestion on how I can say what I mean and mean what I say, instead of talking out of anger or the heat of the moment?

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am not ready to kick H to the curb as I am terrified of being alone, but am also terrified of being with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ - I think this is one of the most honest things I have ever heard you say. My heart goes out to you because I know from where you come. All too well.

(((((KMEJ)))))

Do me a favor.....list out for us the things you are afraid of if you were to be without your H - aka being on your own. What exactly is it that you fear?

Also,

I kind of had a request......Would you be willing to focus on yourself as an individual here, instead of focusing so much on your M?

I know this seems somewhat contrary to MB principles, but it really is a basic building block. You cannot make a healthy M with two unhealthy people. While you are extraordinary in your efforts to give to others , you do not really pay much attention to yourself. And I bet a part of you really wants to. You long for him to give back what you give to him. You live by that old adage "Do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself" And you wish he would do the same thing.

So in the meantime, let's just accept that he is not giving to you right now. Just as a fact. And let's focus on you and some things that make you happy.

Another list......what are some of the things that make you happy that are independent of your H? In other words - NOT "spending time with H" or "the way he smiles".....but maybe "crocheting" or "going to the movies with a friend".

I'm just curious....I kind of want to know who you are..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Things I fear by leaving my H.

1. not being able to support my children- having to uproot them again.

2. being alone

3. being a bad parent

4. seeing H have the life with someone else he was suppose to have with me (yeah I know it is pathetic, but it is a big reason)

5.fear of H hateing me, or turning my children on me

6. admitting to a failed marriage

those are some of the things I can think of currently. I am tired.


Things that makes me happy:

1.I love hanging out with friends
2. cooking
3. running (but I never seem to have time w/o children).
4. I love to dance.
5. I like to listen to Country music
6. read novels by Catherine Colter.
7. I enjoy watching romantic movies.
8. I like going for walks.
9. I also enjoy-Shopping with out my children.

Does that help?

**edited to add that yes, I was raised with a firm belief that you do on to others as you would want done on to you, there was no exceptions growing up. I guess old habits are hard to break. My parents always called me the peacemaker as I would always sacrafice my own wants to keep my siblings and I from fighting. Somethings never change***

<small>[ November 30, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

KMEJ-My heart goes out to you. Ouch, reading your list is kind of like looking in a mirror - showing a scary reflection from the past as well as some from the present.

I know those fears all too well.

1.not being able to support my children - having to uproot them again.

My STBXWH is military. We'd already moved many times in the children's young lives. My oldest was just about to start kindergarten. I was furious at my WH's selfishness for putting us in that position and doing that to the kids. My 5 year old still has a fear of moving and she thinks all people move all the time, asking my parents when they are going to move. I don't think anywhere feels permanent to her - and why would it? But you know, she has done excellent in school - totally well adjusted, socially and academically. Her teacher said she is a joy. And she's doing just fine. And so will your kids - they really are very adaptable. I doesn't mean it won't be hard, especially at first, but you guys WILL make it through anything you have to go through.

As for the support - I don't know where you live, but in FL, I get child support (mine is 40% of his income, determined by the formula) and he has to pay 75% of daycare cost IN ADDITION (FL law).

I want to adress the rest,but I don't have time right now. I do want to say that #4 - seeing your H live the life he should have lived with you with someone else - that is not pathetic. It is only natural. I think something would be wrong if you didn't feel that way! I know I did. But, in time, that will diminish. Unfortunately for me, that had to come the hard way. I subjected myself to the emotional torment for so long that I finally felt little but contempt for him. And now when I look at him, all I see is the pain he caused me, the person he now is. I have accepted the death of my former H. He is no longer there - at least now - and I'm no longer willing to wait and see if he raises from the dead. I'm afraid if that happens it will take a long, long time.

KMEJ, it's possible, if you are as much like me as it seems, that at some point in the future, you are going to wake up and realize that some of your fears are coming true - while you are still WITH your H. For me, I was becoming a "bad" parent because I had nothing left to give. I was giving it all to WH, and WH had crushed my spirit beyond recognition.

My feeling is that if you do not get dead serious about setting boundaries and standing up for yourself - which very likely could lead to Plan B, you are ging to get to that place of no return...SNAP! Know what I mean? Hope for your marriage will be more dead than it would be otherwise. You can only take so much....((((KMEJ))))

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: faithhopelove04 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithhopelove04:
<strong>For me, I was becoming a "bad" parent because I had nothing left to give. I was giving it all to WH, and WH had crushed my spirit beyond recognition.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent quote faith.

Although I'm not through things as far as you yet, I'm sure looking back I will see this as being very accurate to my life as well.

The last thing on earth I want to be known as is a bad parent.

All the best,

Miker

KMEJ - Great lists! They were perfect. And please don't down yourself saying anything is pathetic. A fear is a fear....and everyone has them - regardless of how "trivial" it may seem to someone else, they are your fears, and they are real.

Now here's your list:

Things I fear by leaving my H.

1. not being able to support my children- having to uproot them again.

2. being alone

3. being a bad parent

4. seeing H have the life with someone else he was suppose to have with me (yeah I know it is pathetic, but it is a big reason)

5.fear of H hateing me, or turning my children on me

6. admitting to a failed marriage


The only one I think needs clarification is the "being a bad parent" one.....Are you trying to say you fear your children will perceive you as a "bad parent" for leaving their father?

The rest really is a great list. And those are all very valid fears....don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Now do me a favor, and go back to those reasons......and tell me the worst case scenario for each of them - what's the worst that could happen? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

In the meantime, go out and do the things that make you happy. Don't worry about whether your H will like them or not. None of them are "bad" or "wrong" - in fact, they are all quite healthy. Spend a few bucks on a babysitter, and go shopping! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Go dancing. Listen to music LOUD!

Do some of the things that make you happy, with the security of knowing that they are NOT WRONG!

Enjoy yourself, girl. Start living your life. Think of how you would love to share that enjoyment with your children as they grow older. Remember that life is to be lived. And just relax about your M for a little bit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You don't have to make any decisions right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> **edited to add that yes, I was raised with a firm belief that you do on to others as you would want done on to you, there was no exceptions growing up. I guess old habits are hard to break. My parents always called me the peacemaker as I would always sacrafice my own wants to keep my siblings and I from fighting. Somethings never change*** </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Understood all too well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

When H no longer lived with us, I feel I was a much better parent, as I was not spending so much time and energy trying to make H happy. I was no longer worried about him. We would have dance hour, and read, and we had a great routine. I did not have to worry whether or not H was up with the children during the day, as he was staying at his mothers, and I would drop them off over there in the morning, his mother (their grandmother) would feel them a good breakfast, make sure their teeth were brushed (I dropped them off at 7am, they got up at 6:30, and were not willing to get up earlier to do the above with me) and then my MIL would wake H up b4 she left and then he was up with them, my MIL would make them lunch and leave it for them as well, so I knew that they were eating well. I would swing by at 9 to pick oldest DS up and bring him to school. The kids and I got a long so well, we had snuggle time, bedtime stories, and I could clean when I had the time and energy. I chose to spend my time enjoying my kids, that and no one was home during the day to trash the house and leave it for me, so things were easier. The kids actually were not too happy when their daddy moved back home. I went right back to meeting all the needs he requested and doing more house work and things.

H is trying to help more now. I am realizing how much I was putting off just to meet his needs. I spend every minute with him that he requests, not so much any more. My kids are growing up so fast and I was missing it, so I have been doing more with them. However that leaves my H feeling I am putting them in front of him again and he gets hurt. I feel I can not win currently. I wish I could incorperate them all. I want family time where everyone feels loved. There is only one of me. Unless someone knows how to clone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> When H no longer lived with us, I feel I was a much better parent, as I was not spending so much time and energy trying to make H happy. I was no longer worried about him. We would have dance hour, and read, and we had a great routine. I did not have to worry whether or not H was up with the children during the day, as he was staying at his mothers, and I would drop them off over there in the morning, his mother (their grandmother) would feel them a good breakfast, make sure their teeth were brushed (I dropped them off at 7am, they got up at 6:30, and were not willing to get up earlier to do the above with me) and then my MIL would wake H up b4 she left and then he was up with them, my MIL would make them lunch and leave it for them as well, so I knew that they were eating well. I would swing by at 9 to pick oldest DS up and bring him to school. The kids and I got a long so well, we had snuggle time, bedtime stories, and I could clean when I had the time and energy. I chose to spend my time enjoying my kids, that and no one was home during the day to trash the house and leave it for me, so things were easier. The kids actually were not too happy when their daddy moved back home. I went right back to meeting all the needs he requested and doing more house work and things.

H is trying to help more now. I am realizing how much I was putting off just to meet his needs. I spend every minute with him that he requests, not so much any more. My kids are growing up so fast and I was missing it, so I have been doing more with them. However that leaves my H feeling I am putting them in front of him again and he gets hurt. I feel I can not win currently. I wish I could incorperate them all. I want family time where everyone feels loved. There is only one of me. Unless someone knows how to clone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ:

Did you know that TECHNICALLY Harley and Co. recommend that your husbands Needs and your marriage take precedence over your children. I read this somewhere, perhaps I am mistaken if anyone has information to the contrary.

Yeah Lemonman- I have read that as well. I think the theroy is a happy marraiage and couple makes for a happy marriage. How do I do that however when H gets jealous when I spend time with the kids and kids get jealous when I spend time with H? What I do is spend the time with the kids when H is at work and then put H first when he is home. I would love to meet all there needs at the same time once in a while.

How was your workout? How is your leg?