Noodle:

LOL! Well, I got my laugh in for the night.

Well i'm glad I made your night...

Meditate <snerk>...okey doke. I meant think about..perhaps with charts? Pros Cons? Figure WHY M is in this..knee jerk? Something else? You have to know pretty solidly 1) why you are doing this and 2) whether you have any faith in the plan in order to be effective long term.


I'm sorry I thought you were referring meditation, My bad..I guess when your heart is being ripped apart you sometimes don't think straight...





1) why you are doing this and 2) whether you have any faith in the plan in order to be effective long term.

1) I do this because it feels right and I'm not one to just up and walk away.

2) I have faith in the plans but like anything new the ground I walk on is unsure and painful, I can endure this pain if she at least allows me to help take this burden off her shoulder, I want to carry her pain for her...


Thank you Noodle for all your advice..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> LemonMan you know you have always been the devil on my shoulder and I love you for that, it helps keep me centered. I hope you keep posting on my thread.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, if me being a "devil" helps you Schucter, I will be happy to oblige you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Whatever you feel you have to do you should just do. I think you will get more than enough wise marriage builder concept supporters here on your thread, so I will still be the "devil" for you. I seem to be good at that here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . DOn't worry, I won't go changin on ya here.

LemonMan:

I have provided alink to my web page. it has pics of my ww and the kids and me..When the page first loads it will play a song that tells a little about my mod and where my journey will be taking me..I think this song will help you understand where I see all of this heading. Sorry that so many give you crap, I like to think everyone here has an opionion that counts, your the one who cuts through the chase and thats where I think of you as the devil on my shoulder, it's meant with Love.


http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...endID=4111558&Mytoken=20041215185449

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong>

2) I have faith in the plans but like anything new the ground I walk on is unsure and painful, I can endure this pain if she at least allows me to help take this burden off her shoulder, I want to carry her pain for her...


</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right there..that's your plan A achilles heel..

...."I can endure this pain IF SHE"....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mschluter:
<strong> LemonMan:

Sorry that so many give you crap, I like to think everyone here has an opionion that counts, your the one who cuts through the chase and thats where I think of you as the devil on my shoulder, it's meant with Love.


http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...endID=4111558&Mytoken=20041215185449 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michael:

LOL, thanks for your concern my friend. Trust me, the "crap" I get here for my opinion pales in comparison to the A$$ whipping, degrading, dehumanizing behavior I got serving as a surgical resident. The "crap" I get here is fine really. It is all good. I can see why people think of me the way they do. It is all perception. If I am gonna be "different" then I have to deal with the sometimes negative perceptions of me. That is ok really. I KNOW that there are enough people here that know what my true intentions are and believe that I am actually a "good guy". I do mean well. I CHOOSE to stay on this board and many times render "unpopular" opinions, thus I need to deal with the "crap" that befalls me. If the heat ever gets to hot in the kitchen, I can always get out (there I go again with the cheesy cliches). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will check your website out tonight. Thank you for the link.


LM

<small>[ December 15, 2004, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

Noodle:

Right there..that's your plan A achilles heel..


HUH?

Ok first make fun of my meditate and now my heel?

Damn can't a guy catch a break...

LOL
LOL
LOL
but I do think you need to expand were slow here in upstate NY...

You can not control her response..so to make your plan..or even your ability to execute a plan conditional on her response ..is failure before you even begin.

Noodle

So when she tells me that she does not love me and is moving out just continue with Plan A as if I never heard her say those words, even though they cut deeply..

Her A has ended and she is now on day 24 if she does not contact him at all today.

Should'nt she be more into saving the M at this point of withdrawal or should it take longer to get that commitment.?


Once nc starts how long should it take to get a ww spouse to want recovery if thats what they do want? I keep thinking she will stop this fog talk since she has gone 23 days with nc any advice?

UDATE 12/16/2004:

Well last night went very well I think. ww and I attended our daughters chorus concert from 7 - 8:30 pm and we had a great time. After we got the kids all to bed she asked me if we could talk and I said sure.

She told me that she has decided to try and stay until June ( Not because of us ) and that she wanted to take it week by week until then. I told her I was ok with whatever choice she decided to make.

ww also told me that she has not seen Om in over 40 day's and has not talked to him in 23 days as of yesterday. She told me that she still has feeling for him and that there is still that part of her that wants to save the Marriage, She is just worried because of the big fight we had last Friday night ( see previous posts on about that night ) and that she just does not want to have anymore nights like that. I assured her that I was in the wrong for getting so upset but that I still needed to stand by that boundry that I will not tolerate any more lies or contact with Om. She told me that it really is over between them.

WW also said that she has been unhappy with her job lately and would like to go part-time and find something that would make her happy.

ww also mentioned that she is trying to fullfill my en's but that it's hard because of how she feels about me now. She also told me that come June she will probably still leave ( fog talk I hope ).

ww mentioned that I put to many demands on her, and that she feels a lot of pressure from me. She did not elaborate on these demands and I did not push her, I just listened and would repeat back so she knew I was listening.

ww is also not into the holiday this yr because of her job and are home life. I told her I understand.

She asked me if I have ever thought about divorcing her and I told her yes but that I do not see that happening right now, I told her that in my eye's we are still at least a yr or more away from that option. I asked her if that was ok with her or does she want a D? She told me she is not sure what she wants right now.

Ww told me that her A has nothing to do with her wanting out of the M even though it was wrong to do, she still felt this way about not loving me made it easier to have the A

ww told me that she regrets the A but that during the A she only had momentary lapses of guilt.

ww told me that she loves the children but feels they may never get over what she has done.

ww told me that going out to her mom's is not really what she wants but for me not to think her staying is because of her devotion to the M ( cake-eating I think )

We talked until almost 11:30 and then she intiated Sf, I could tell she was not into it and after she had her orgasm we fooled around for another 30 minutes but I could not climax myself. I asked her if she was into it and she said no, I told her thank you for being honest but then why would she intiate sf if she was not in the mood, she told me because she wanted to do it for me but because of her feelings towards me it makes it hard to get into it at times.

I woke her up at 6:40 am for work and had a cup of coffee ready for her and took my Daughter to school. She is upstairs getting ready for work and told me that she will see me when she comes home for lunch. She seems like she is in a good mood but that sometimes changes when she gets to work and thinks about OM.

I have been a basket case the last 36 hours because of her telling me she was leaving this weekend, I told her what does she plan on telling her mom and stepdad, she told me she called them from work yesterday and just told them that she is staying till June so the kids could finish out the school year.

Well I know my post's are long but I like to get all the info out there so people can give me solid advice on what is going on.

So how should I take this new development?

Can I trust her?

or should I just keep plan A-ing her...

She asked me if I have ever thought about divorcing her and I told her yes but that I do not see that happening right now, I told her that in my eye's we are still at least a yr or more away from that option.
I suggest (as Steve Harley told me) that you don’t even suggest it as an option. Yes, be honest if she says you have thought about it but don’t tell her something such as “we are still at least a yr or more away” & don’t even ask her if she wants one. Just don’t bring up the subject.

Can I trust her?
No. She hasn’t given you much reason to trust her. I’m not saying you should simply distrust what she says, but take it with a grain of salt. Simply take it as it comes.

or should I just keep plan A-ing her...
Yes.

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris -CA123 :

I suggest (as Steve Harley told me) that you don’t even suggest it as an option. Yes, be honest if she says you have thought about it but don’t tell her something such as “we are still at least a yr or more away” & don’t even ask her if she wants one. Just don’t bring up the subject.

Ok.. My bad, I should not have said that. My thinking was that if she did leave I set a date that in Plan B if she did not return in 1 yr that I would and should file for D.

I met with PI buddy today and he assures me she is not talking or seeing OM, He did inform me that OM called her job last week and that OM was told not to call anymore please because WW is not allowed to recieve calls at work.

She did tell me about this two day's later when she found out.

I asked her if it bothered her not beinmg able to talk to him and she said No..

Michael,

I'm glad she's staying, but I'm concerned that this "moving out in June" business is a problem. Not because she's planning on doing it, but because she may just consider the next six months a "sentence" she needs to serve.

But six months is a nice chunk of time for someone in withdrawal from romance.

I'm also worried about your MIL and her hair-brained ideas, whatever they may be, about how she thinks her daughter ought to seek happiness. She sounds unwise. I've run across people like this before - affairs aren't so bad, divorce isn't so bad, be true to yourself, all that jive.

I hope her influence over your W is not too great. Michael, I think you're doing very, very well. It's been a rough couple of days, and unfortunately, you don't get to rest yet.

But the weekend is coming...

GC

GreyCloud,

What do you think I should do?

HELP

Just do what you've been doing. That's about all you can do. You have to accept the "power struggle" that may be a part of your wife's actions. You can't fix this alone. You can do your best to communicate with her, via plan A, that the M is worth saving. But ultimately, you can't take her freewill out of the equation. She will do what she will do, and your influence is limited.

GC

GC:

I'm ok with her leaving if thats her choice, I will still have my Daughter, and hopefully be able to keep the house.

She told me that today she came close to calling OM but did not. Said that she has come to far to mess it up.

I'm just wondering if she really does plan on leaving in June, or is this some kind of test or is she just buying time. These are the real question's. How does one know truth from bulls**t.

This whole A has taken such a heavy toll on my mind, soul, and heart.

She told me that today she came close to calling OM but did not.
And you told her nicely, "thanks for being honest with me about that", correct?

I'm just wondering if she really does plan on leaving in June
It doesn't matter. She's not leaving now and the om is out of the picture (hopefully).
This is your chance to make a big impression.

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

This whole question about June... I know she keeps bringing it up, but ignore all that as much as you can. Your W doesn't know if she'll make it to lunch without calling OM, but she knows her plan for the future and your M? I doubt it.

Stop trying to figure out if she means it or not. She means it, but don't let that bother you. And don't let it affect your actions. You have today to worry about - don't worry about six months from now.

Michael, have you tried to identify her needs, all that stuff? HNHN might help you with that - if it hasn't arrived, rest easy - it's on the way. The point is, maybe there's something on the list of her ENs that you haven't clearly identified. Work on your plan, work on improving it, and let the chaos and uncertainty all around you just howl.

GC

Well the ww is upstairs taking a nap from a hard day at work. I cooked dinner again and cleaned the kitchen and did all the kids homework with them.

I found that I hate cooking chicken..LOL..

Chris -CA123 :

And you told her nicely, "thanks for being honest with me about that", correct?

I told her thank you for being honest and that I was not upset with her honesty.

It doesn't matter. She's not leaving now and the om is out of the picture (hopefully).

As far as the PI goes, yes he is not being contacted but the thoughts are still very strong for her to call him, It's so hard because Om lives 3 miles away and works less then miles from our home and his work and his home are between ww's work and our home..

So to say the least the temptation is very strong for her since he is so close, I would love to move but just can't afford it right now and she would only get upset for the notion.


GreyCloud:


This whole question about June... I know she keeps bringing it up, but ignore all that as much as you can. Your W doesn't know if she'll make it to lunch without calling OM, but she knows her plan for the future and your M? I doubt it.

Yeah Grey I know, I have just been having so much trouble smiling and getting past all of her words. all of you have given me such great advice and when all of you tell me to Smile and play music and act like nothing is wrong it drives me crazy to do that. It takes everything I have just to get out of bed and even more to go through my day.

Michael, have you tried to identify her needs, all that stuff? HNHN might help you with that - if it hasn't arrived, rest easy - it's on the way. The point is, maybe there's something on the list of her ENs that you haven't clearly identified. Work on your plan, work on improving it, and let the chaos and uncertainty all around you just howl.

We took the EN's questionair but she did not fill it out right, she was answering the questions as if it was in regards to the Om..GRRRRRRR

She told me she will take it again, I have also asked her if she has writen the Nc letter but I do not push the subject.

I wish I could get up turn on the music and dance around the house, I feel like all I do is worry and get myself all upset. I don't have that voice I can reach out to or lean on for support.

My family is against me even staying with her or even getting involved. My brothers want to just go to the Om's job and drag him out and beat him..This is what you get when you come from an all Military family. My kid brother is so pissed over this whole thing that he is taking his leave at my sisters instead of coming to my home like he does every year.

ww's mom has a lot of influence over ww and so does her best friend who in my book has a child to go with each dad,

Her friend has been telling ww that if the love is gone then her A is ok...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr


The only one on my side is her sister ( maybe ) and her real Dad. But they have little influence over ww.

One day I hope either this all goes away or I do...it really is starting to hurt

Right now she is on the phone with a friend who is all for her leaving me and the kids..

I'm trying to give her space and she has been very unresponsive so far tonight.

Not sure what she wants...

Tomorrow I plan on trying to smile more and start playing some good music in the house...

I think were both tired of R talks and A talks..

Told her I will give her 30 days and then I need to have some of my questions answered, The truth is what helps me and hurts me