I feel like a heel for posting about the feelings I am having, since so many on the board will kill to be as far along as I am with my FWW..but I have to admit, this is killing me...it's worse than when she was in the A, I think.

She has had no contact for a little over two weeks. She says she wants absolutely to be married to me and to work everything out. She tells me she loves me....but there is absolutely no affection from her side and SF has been mechanical and only a couple of times when I practically begged (not doing that anymore). We are starting MC very soon.

Here's a good example:

Went to dinner last night and saw the new Bridget Jones movie...we were the only two in the theatre...she held my hand when I reached for hers...there were some funny moments as I am an attorney and the characters in the movie are sort of similar to us...she would look over at me and smile

When we got home, we were sitting on the couch and I asked her "Do you ever feel romantic towards me at all". Her answer, "Why is that so important to you?". I responded that I really wanted to be in love with her again, like we used to be. Her response, "I do too and I am working on that".

I told her that I wished she could just tell me what's going on in her head..she asked what I wanted to know...here we go (My q, her a)

Q Is it anything to do with me?
A No, you're perfect, it's 100% me.

Q Is it that you just can't let go of him (OM)?
A No

Q Is it something crazy like that you don't feel you deserve me, or that I deserve better, or that you've just done too much to me?
A Silence
My response: Don't you understand that I forgive you? I just want my wife back, I love her and miss her.
Her response: I know, it's just that a lot has happened. Just stop worrying, it will happen when you least expect it and then everything will be great..

After all that, I couldn't sleep so I got up to do some reading and ended up sleeping on the couch..

This morning when she got up, she was sad and said "Why did you leave me?"

I told her that I was through forcing myself on her because it made me feel like a pathetic loser. She said that I wasn't forcing myself on her and please don't leave her anymore like that.

About a half hour later when she was leaving for work..she said "Cheer the Hell up"...I gotta go, kissed me and said, ILY. I told her I wished she wouldn't say that anymore until she could really mean it..she said she really does mean it..I said, no, when you can love me like a husband, not a friend..then I told her that I really do love her...her response was to stick her tongue out at me and say "Well, I love you too and there's nothing you can do about it"

Arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

If you managed to read all this and can tell me what the hell is wrong with me, I would appreciate it...otherwise, it was very therapeutic for me to get it off my chest...

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Hurting Hoosier ]</small>

HH,

I can relate... Your MC will be able to help you and your W with your feelings much better than any of us here...

I'd say that it appears that you and your W are both doing relatively well, considering the fact that D-Day was so recent.

Take things slowly. Try to be the best that you can be for your W and don't expect anything from her in return right now... it will take your W a while for her to start meeting your needs.

Come here and vent... it's much better than venting at your W <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take things slowly. Try to be the best that you can be for your W and don't expect anything from her in return right now... it will take your W a while for her to start meeting your needs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, I just wish she could have had the same experience I had and maybe that would jolt her back. We had both grown apart prior to D-Day..heck it couldn't have happened otherwise...but when I learned that I might be losing her, it was like the flick of a switch...all my feelings were back almost instantly...

She's never felt that she might be losing me, that's the one downside to plan A....I sometimes think I should just pull the plug and she will either have the same experience I did and her feelings will come flooding back....or it's just not meant to be....another good thing to just vent about here rather than doing something rash..

I understand, HH - the waiting is intermidable. Seems like a day, no and HOUR, lasts for a week!

Like you, I know I can forgive the event. I know (F)WH can (eventually) forgive himself (I think he's faking it til he makes it), and like your wife, my H is trying to pull back on the garments of lovingness and inlove-ness.

I want so desparately to be thrown back, back into time, where he pursued me at every level, at every moment, and where none of our mistakes, big and small have yet to occur. (My own little -huge- fantasyland).

I know, from the testimonials of the stories and postings here, how very possible a better life is, and am sooooo impatiant for it to get here! Foolish, yes, but it is what both drives my hope and tantalizes my daydreams. Foolish, because it's just like the dieter who wants to take the magic pill that suddenly makes you lose 30 lbs, rather than acknowledging it took several years of bad habits to put it on and will take some real time and effort to make new habits to take it off.

I admitted to my H yesterday, if given the option, I'd rather see a counselor every day til it's all fixed - not this week or two between. That's how I FEEL - but I do know that time is the rational way....

Yep. It is frustrating. But really, didn't we truly wait for everything we value?

Anyway, it's how I comfort myself. Hope it comforts you, too.

Ok, I know this isn't what you want to hear, because you want sympathy, but I had to laugh at the "I love you anyway and there's nothing you can do about it" reply. That was a pretty mild and actually positive response to a massive DJ on your part. What do you hope to accomplish by telling your wife how she feels? Sounds like you were trying to pick a fight.

I think that silence said a mouthful.

She is giving you hints, but you want her words to be bolder...don't blame you.

Try romancing her, make affection a sene experience (feed her sweet food, give her a massage, light scented candes, wear different cologne, buy satin or egyptian cotton sheets, etc)

Ignite her senses.

My thought? She feels SOoooooo guilty and it's hard to have unbridled, mind-disengaging SF with that weight weighing on you. Help her forget and lose herself and forget for awhile...

Yo HH, you are not the only one. All I am wanting is a little SF, once a week would be nice just so I could feel like we really are connecting and moving forward.

Last night I was running my hand all over her (with permission), then out of no where she told me to go to sleep and that she was tired. AARRGGGG.......I have not even tried anything for around a week.

The mixed signals are getting really annoying.

On the bright side she is way more affectionate in non-sexual ways than she has ever been before. Spending time cuddled on the couch, holding hands etc.....

I feel bad complaining, but I am starting to wonder WTF???

I wish she would just wake up one day with a big black hat and giant wart on her nose. LOL

I just don't get it...."I am working on it, you can not expect me to change over night"....all I know is that she likes it, I know how to make her feel good so why won't she just go with the flow some times?

HH, when you get the answer let me know. Thanks for starting the thread too. I was thinking about it but was kinda feeling pathetic seeing as how my stbFWW and I seem to have a better relationship than ever before.

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

Restarting,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yep. It is frustrating. But really, didn't we truly wait for everything we value?

Anyway, it's how I comfort myself. Hope it comforts you, too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does, and I already know that.. It is just mind numbingly frustrating...This 'I love you and I want to spend the rest of my life with you, but don't expect me to throw you a bone by maybe inititating so much as a hug' sh*t really gets old after a while. If we were two people who had just met and were dating, I would give up and quit calling....geez Louise....

mineownself,
I may well have been fight picking...these mixed signals just frustrate the hell out of me...I know it was the wrong thing to do..but you start to feel like you don't have anything to lose..might as well throw anything and everything at the wall and see what sticks..

stillheremakingit,
I am sure she would soak that up like the affection absorbing sponge she has become, then tell me thank you and go to sleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

unbridled, mind-disengaging SF - crap, I'd settle for a cuddle on the couch that I didn't have to initiate...

greergan,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just don't get it...."I am working on it, you can not expect me to change over night"....all I know is that she likes it, I know how to make her feel good so why won't she just go with the flow some times? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Beats the heck out of me...I just don't get it. The thing that worries me, is that when we first met, within a couple of weeks we were madly in love...if she had acted the way she does now when we first met, I'd have flew the coop in a New York minute, would have thought 'this chick isn't interested in me at all'

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Hurting Hoosier ]</small>

HH,

Things don't change overnight. I think being patient and going with the flow is the best plan of action. Seems to me like there is a lot of potential with you two, its just going to take some time. Just don't give up on her!

Cheers,

Miker

Now you know why recovery can be even harder than an ongoing affair. Like many a BS, you may be feeling like you achieved a pyrrhic victory [a victory won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor] so don't beat yourself up if that is the case. What you MUST ALWAYS keep in mind is that recovery [personal and marital] is a one day at a time process that CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be rushed. One thing you can do is to follow your FWW's PMA [positive mental attitude] with your own for nobody wants to be around a pessimist. Like restarting said regarding her FWH, 'Fake it til you make it'.

TMCM

<strong>
unbridled, mind-disengaging SF - crap, I'd settle for a cuddle on the couch that I didn't have to initiate...
</strong>

Believe me, this can only keep a guy going for so long. After a while an free cuddle seems like an invite to go further...only to find out - NOT.

<strong>
Beats the heck out of me...I just don't get it. The thing that worries me, is that when we first met, within a couple of weeks we were madly in love...if she had acted the way she does now when we first met, I'd have flew the coop in a New York minute, would have thought 'this chick isn't interested in me at all' </strong>

Um, can I say me 2? When we first got together it was every day, after I moved in with her it was almost everyday...hell we shared each other more often when she was pregnant for the love of pete.

Yep,

After the chaos of d-day, Plan A, and Plan B. We relaxed into recovery...except my needs were still not getting met.

What I learned in recovery, and how we are doing so well, is I had to learn a NEW way to ask for what I wanted.

We had some VERY serious arguments/discussions at about the 3/6/9 month intervals in recovery (we are past the 12 month, are we overdue?) in which I had to tell him I wasn't happy.

What was unique about these discussions is I had to do it in a non-comabtive way (how I had 'asked' for things before) without using LB's, AO's, DJ's, and yet let him know I was SERIOUS...not put him on the defensive.

It took quite a while to learn to do this.

What I learned, and how recovery began to progress was that I was continuing to fulfill his needs, I asked him if he saw these changes I had been making, if there was anything else he wanted me to do, or not do, and then I told him I wasn't happy, and I wanted more............... from him. (in my case it was conversation).

What I learned in our situation was I had to be a Giver, put my Taker aside for while until I could talk with him from a place of giving, and then my Giver appealed to his Giver.

What I also learned in recovery was that my FWH had a hard time asking me for what he wanted (hence the hiding and the A) and I really had to pull that out of him. It is quite possible you are not fulfilling your WS highest EN's because she has not been clear about this. Don't kill yourself trying to be the end all to her EN's, but try to fulfill her top 3 needs.

I don't know about HH but for some reason, I feel like I am entitled to a few things.

I never left. I never came home late or drunk. I let her and the kids have just about anything as long as we had the money. I let her choose just about everything we did.

I am not the one that cheated. I AM the one that has fought my @ss off for just about 2 months to save the M. I have done my best to fill as many EN for her as I could figure out needed filling. She has responded very well and even suprised some times.

At what point, if ever, should the BS expect the WS to go overboard a little in actions that will help the BS feel like their efforts have been worth it?

Is my sense of needing a special reward wrong of me? Is this an issue I need to look at and fix within myself?

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

Hmm. Well my personal advice would be run and never look back, but my views don't quite line up with MB on saving marriages after infidelity, so scratch that.

I think the MB advice is that you should be doing something about your own LBs -- 100% eliminating them, in fact. Until you've gotten that nailed, that's where your focus should be, not on what your wife is or is not doing.

For example, you felt frustrated, so you DJ'd and told your wife how she thinks. What's the plan to make sure this never happens again?

Hey there gg,

Taker out in full force, eh?

A wise pposter once wrote to me...

Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?

yep taker is pretty upset today, even jacked this thread...sorry HH.

For me I guess it really comes down to this....I want to be right in knowing that she wants to be married to me still.

I still have it in my head that she should be offering a little bit of grand make up after such a grand screw up (no pun was intended but it fits).

Miker,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Things don't change overnight. I think being patient and going with the flow is the best plan of action. Seems to me like there is a lot of potential with you two, its just going to take some time. Just don't give up on her! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this, and I will be patient and get through it...just felt like whining a little bit...

TooMuchCoffeeMan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Like many a BS, you may be feeling like you achieved a pyrrhic victory [a victory won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor] so don't beat yourself up if that is the case. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I certainly hope not, and I really don't think that's the case. What I do think has happened is that I thought I had won the war, when it was only the first major battle..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Like restarting said regarding her FWH, 'Fake it til you make it'.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wish my W would try that approach..

I am sure that, in the end, I will hang in there and be patient for however long it takes. Things do actually look really good..

I guess I just needed to whine a little bit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greergan:
<strong> I don't know about HH but for some reason, I feel like I am entitled to a few things.

I never left. I never came home late or drunk. I let her and the kids have just about anything as long as we had the money. I let her choose just about everything we did.

I am not the one that cheated. I AM the one that has fought my @ss off for just about 2 months to save the M. I have done my best to fill as many EN for her as I could figure out needed filling. She has responded very well and even suprised some times.

At what point, if ever, should the BS expect the WS to go overboard a little in actions that will help the BS feel like their efforts have been worth it?

Is my sense of needing a special reward wrong of me? Is this an issue I need to look at and fix within myself? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take it from me, HH feels exactly the same way. But we both have to suck it up and get through this...if for no other reason than we would never forgive ourselves for bailing out now that we have invested so much emotionally..still sux though..hehe

BTDT,

The reason I am posting so much on this thread, is this is exactly how my recovery started in the beginning.

My Taker was out in full force...how dare he ignore my needs when HE was the one who cheated..HE OWED ME!

And my Taker, I learned, was like a little child, stomping around throwing temper tantrum, jutting my bottom lip out, b*&ching, moaning, and complaining.

I'm not saying put your Taker away, you will be really resentful if you don't get what you need, but you have to teach your Taker to ask for it in a different way...and not expect it.

You won't get your needs met by letting your Taker run wild, and you will continue to feel resentment if you continue to fulfill her needs without asking in return.

Earn it by giving it and ASK for what you want.

DO IT DIFFERENTLY!!!!!

I just called and left her a message on her cell letting her know that I love her very much and that I am thinking about her. I told her I tend to get impatient because I just want things to be right between us, but that I am here for her and will be...

Put away the wet noodles, all!