Was going to post on PlanA/PlanB board but there doesn't seem to be much activity over there. My story is under another thread but will give you the brief synopsis -- WH PA/EA, found out 2 months ago, he fence sat... I tried plan A briefly.. he said he wanted to try to fix us 2 weeks ago... that lasted about 12 hours then he decided he couldn't give up OW. Now - through this whole event he also comes clean on having 4 other PAs (they didn't "mean" anything). I hadn't seen him since he told me he couldn't work on our marriage. Saw him last night. We had been living in the same house but he says he can't stay there anymore and look at me knowing what he did (which works for me because I have a hard time looking at him too - but I still miss him - which drives me nuts!!), he has a home office so is working from the home and leaving to sleep elsewhere at night before i get home... we are going to sell the house as we can't afford it w/out both paying towards the mortgage. I'm currently looking to move to an apartment closer to work and friends (i currently commute 1 1/2 hours each way for work).

Anyway - I was going to do Plan B.. do the letter and all.... but in reading the letter, it doesn't even seem to apply to my situation as it seems he has chosen OW and the part about him not contacting me until he is can go no-contact w/ OW will sound ridiculous... so i'm wondering if there is such a thing as a modified plan B? We still need to be in contact about certain issues regarding the house, etc... it doesn't require me talking to him every day and i have limited my contact with him. But I need to start moving on and getting my own space so I can heal. I don't see much hope for us.

I also need some inspiration from others who've separated (we're not talking D yet...) I hurt so much. But he treated me like such crap - 5 affairs in 5 1/2 years of marriage?!?!?! Why can't I hold on to all that negative stuff?? Why do i only focus on the ache i feel because i miss talking to my best friend and the way he could make me laugh no matter what??? And to top that off, OW has him and he has that distraction to make his life oh so much easier while i hurt. Needs a pep talk desparately. I'm hoping I'm just still recovering from talking to him last night about our financial issues and getting the house ready.... but I just don't like how i'm feeling today.

It's me again...THE BROKEN RECORD!! If you want me to stop giving you advice, I will. It's just that I have been in your shoes exactly and it's frustrating to me that you can't seem to listen to me. I guess it was hard for me to hear from folks here, too. BUT, here goes.

DO you want to recover your marriage?

If so, it's either continue in PLAN A which I think is where you still are OR a STRICT PLAN B.

Otherwise, your WH will continue to cake-eat.

I've been trying to tell you STILL. I've BEEN THERE-DONE THAT. There's no getting around this.

Why are you helping him with the separation stuff? It's him that's causing the financial problems by being with her. It's important that you consult a lawyer before doing any of this. If you do PLAN B, it is important for you to consult a lawyer first. While under her influence, he will not be acting like a married man, in your best interests. You will need to be looking out for yourself.

Hi Mimi -- I've missed you! I am going to talk to an attorney on Friday. Proceeding in some sort of separation is me trying to protect myself. As I had said before, I'm getting to the point where I'm losing respect and love for him. Seeing him last night was so hard - I hadn't seen or spoke to him for more than a week. Plan B is my only option - he will continue to cake eat if I continue Plan A and I'll lose more respect for him and get angrier at how he is treating me. He got airline tickets in the mail for a January trip to see her (he's been w/ her the past week and a half also). I can't bear it anymore.

Me limiting contact with him and trying to move forward is the only possible way to de-fog him and even then, I'm not so sure it will happen. He continued w/ his foggy talk last night - that he wasn't happy w/ our marriage and that is why he had those other affairs and was always buying stuff. And I admit I let that comment get to me - my heart aches thinking he was completly unhappy w/ me. I don't know - I'm feeling so blah.

Dear Stillprocessing,

I'm usually over on the "In Recovery" board, but another member over there pointed me to your thread because my H had multiple affairs also. I'm so sorry for your pain. I know it's terribly deep.

There is a big difference in our stories. My H and I were married for 10 years before he stepped out. Then, once he did, he couldn't stop. He used affairs to medicate a depression that he did not understand. He had a very difficult childhood and it really messed him up. He compensated by having affairs. He tried to make them about me, but has since realized that they had nothing to do with me in reality. They were all about acting out against his pain.

Is your H willing to get into IC to find out why he does what he does? He must know that it's not normal to have had 5 affairs in a 5 year marriage. He may blame it on you, but it's not about you in the least! Trust me on that one!

I have to admit that if I had found out that my H was capable of this as early in the marriage as you are, I might not have stayed. I found out at the 10 year mark of one affair and then didn't find out about the rest until almost 2 years ago...that was quite a blow. He was also planning to leave me for the OW.

Did your H give you any idea as to how long those other affairs lasted? How long did it take for him to get involved with someone? Does he do the pursuing or does he just happen to fall in love with women who pursue him? Just curious as to what makes him tick.

I know it sounds hopeless right now, but it might not be so in reality. It all depends on whether or not he's willing to get help.

Take care.

Stillwed

StillP,

Hang in there. Its tough but you will get stronger as time goes on. Its hard to say how long it will take for the fog to lift. My WW is still foggy (and we're approaching 6 mo separation) and unfortunately I don't think I'll be there for her when she defogs. But the pain and hurt is less now and I do realize there are many great woman out there. I don't need to be her second choice. Just look at the people on this board.

All the best,

Miker

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Miker ]</small>

Hi Still,

I don't have much advice. I've been following your first thread, now this one. Just wanted to let you know that there are internet strangers out here, concerned about you, wishing we could comfort you. In place of that,
((((((Stillprocessing)))))), hugs and prayers.

Jenny

stillwed -- thanks for replying. He had at one point said that he realized he was screwed up and was going to go to IC but after spending so much time with OW, I think that is out the window - I'm sure she is telling him that there is nothing wrong with him... that it was the marriage that was the problem. He also had issues in his childhood (alcoholic abusive father) and I've tried to make him realize that having so many affairs in a 5 year span is NOT normal behavior regardless of how allegedly miserable you are in a marriage (which I still can't accept that the marriage was that bad -- i know, fog talk). So - at this point, I don't think he'll seek out IC. I can only hope that maybe the separation will snap him into some sort of reality but I'm not counting on it. I had talked to his mom about a week ago and she said she was concerned for him and thought he should talk to someone but she's so wishy-washy and in denial anyway that I'm sure she won't pursue that topic with him. He'll have to figure that out on his own.

I never got details on the other affairs. Only thing I know is that the were just about sex but he had kept them waiting in the wings for when he needed more -- the current OW got him to break contact with them (what a guy!) I'm not even sure how many times he saw these women or if they were one night stands or what... I'm still debating on whether I want more information on that. As of now, I'm thinking no but I'm just not sure.

Mikey - thanks - I'm so glad to see you are only 6 months into your separation and the pain is less. I keep thinking it is going to take years and I don't really think I could handle that. And you're right, I don't need to be his second choice! I deserve so much better... thats just so hard to remember <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jenny - thanks so much for the hugs and prayers -- it really helps to know there are people out there who understand this horrible nightmare and care about others going through it. The hugs and prayers are MUCH needed!!

<small>[ December 01, 2004, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

stillprocessing,

You need to protect yourself. You need write Plan B letter then go very dark plan B. Why ?. 5 A in 5.5 years mean there is no really M. He has issues that beyond you and M, he needs to work on that. Having said this, I would like you to see why you put up with this for 5.5 years. If you need to seek IC, you should do it first and stick up until you are fine unless WH is interefering w/ your own therapy.

Good Luck. -rh-

RH - I didn't know about any of the affairs - he fessed up as we've been going through this most recent mess. I'm in IC to help me deal with all this. I know he has a million other issues he needs to deal with and had acknowledged he is screwed up and needs to talk to someone but he has since backed off that -- probably due to OW telling him that it isn't him - that he just wasn't married to the right person and that is why he had all those affairs -- so now that he's with her, he'll be just fine!!! What a joke. But nothing I can do about that! Trying to just focus on me at this point.

Hi Still,

Great to read that you are in IC! No matter what happens in and to your M, you are becoming a stronger person--stronger than you probably ever thought possible.

Mimi has been great in the MB advice that she's been giving. Not sure what plan you will ultimately follow, but until you decide, I think that no LB'ing, as you decide, is important.

Not sure if you've done this already, but I think it's very important that you get a physical check up, w/ a check for STD's. I'm not big on OP bashing, and I'm not saying that OP carry STD's. What I am saying is that married people who cheat and people who get involved w/ married people show that they don't use their judgement wisely. You may have unwittingly been exposed.

Also, knowing the roller coaster that you're on, make sure you are protected physically, against STD's and pregnancy. If you have an unexpected sexual encounter with your H (they happen!), you don't need either of these things added to your plate.

Side note: Were/are you a fan of the show Friends? There was an episode where Joey was reading Little Women. He got to the part where Beth was sick and was having a tough time handling it emotionally. Rachel had him put the book in the freezer until he was ready to go back to reading it. For some reason, that reminds me of Plan B. You're putting dealing with your H in the freezer until you are both ready to go back to dealing with your M only, minus the A and OP. Strictly my thought process <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , not MB!!

I hope you find a reason to smile today! You will get through this, I promise. You will feel joy and happiness again. And with the bad feelings you've had from this experience, when you feel real joy and happiness again, you will have something to contrast it against, and will appreciate it like you never had before. Trust that.

Hugs and prayers to you,
Jenny

stillprocessing,

You are doing fine. Actually you might want to look at "Tough Love". It is kindda of Plan B but with full contact. It work well when WS has other issues beside A, such as Alcohol or severe Emotional Baggages.

You also need to put a time frame doing this otherwise you would waste your time. I have no regret to push Dv'ed after 6 months of plan B. 2 years later exW & OM are still together.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to do Plan B.. do the letter and all.... but in reading the letter, it doesn't even seem to apply to my situation as it seems he has chosen OW and the part about him not contacting me until he is can go no-contact w/ OW will sound ridiculous... so i'm wondering if there is such a thing as a modified plan B? We still need to be in contact about certain issues regarding the house, etc... it doesn't require me talking to him every day and i have limited my contact with him. But I need to start moving on and getting my own space so I can heal. I don't see much hope for us.

I also need some inspiration from others who've separated (we're not talking D yet...) I hurt so much. But he treated me like such crap - 5 affairs in 5 1/2 years of </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like you may be confused about a number of the MB Principles. The purpose of PLAN B is for him to be with the OW 24/7 so that he has to rely on her to meet ALL OF HIS ENS. Also, it tends to burst the A fantasy bubble because that way he really gets to know her.

I really had a hard time with PLAN B. I had a hard time beginning it and staying in it. However, in the long run, it was really the answer for the RECOVERY OF MY MARRIAGE. My FWH has said, "You really don't get to know a person until you are with that person all of the time." He used to be with her only on the weekends. After he moved in with her, she could not keep up her act all the time. He learned, in his own words, that she is "just like any other woman". In other words, he realized that she is a human being, not a magical savior for him. He also had to think that he was losing me, that I was really going on with my life. I think he had a fantasy that I would be sitting around waiting for him until he finished playing with her.

I eventually learned that his contacts with me enabled the A. He had to feel the pain of what he was doing. He had to stay deep in it and begin to miss me. However, he missed me because of my PLAN A. He had me in the PLAN A in his mind and then I went completely DARK. I changed my phone numbers and wouldn't answer his calls at work. I had things set up legally so that there was no reason for him to talk to me. The key was an effective PLAN A followed by a DARK PLAN B. The PLAN B letter was also important because I spelled out specifically the ROAD MAP home. This include a NC Letter, his life an open book, etc. The PLAN B letter was like a love letter, telling him why I had to do the PLAN B and why I couldn't take what he was doing to me anymore. He quoted that letter and kept it with him so what I said in it was important.

Your situation is different than mine in the important regard of your husband having had numerous As. However, this one sounds like a LOVE AFFAIR with emotional ties with this OW. My FWH was "in love" with his OW and their A had lasted more than 2 years so I was feeling hopeless. However, I followed the MB Principles as closely as I could. This Recovery has been wonderful so far.

That's been my experience. Hope this helps.

<small>[ December 02, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Jenny - already got tested for STDs - didn't go as far as HIV blood test but should probably do that just in case... what a lovely thought...

I am a fan of Friends - don't remember that episode though -- but I would love to really put HIM in the freezer for a while <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am feeling better today. It usually helps when I don't have contact with him (and I'm not sure what that means). I'm very glad to be in IC and looking forward to a better, stronger ME!

Mimi has been awesome and I'm still not sure what path to follow. I would go completely dark but we've got stuff to deal w/ in selling the house, etc... So, I'm not sure how that works???

RH - thanks for telling me I'm doing fine -- sometimes i feel like a complete basket case. I am going to pick up that love must be tough book - yet another to add to my collection!! As of now I don't think either of us are pushing for D - my reason being that I'm not ready for that step -- his reason probably being that he can't afford it... so whatever...

Mimi -- you hit the nail on the head -- I am confused. I struggle with his multiple affairs and wonder if he can really change. While this one is the "biggie" since he has an EA as well, I really don't think that lessens his other behavior. I mean really - he initially said his first PA was one year after we got married - my mom died 6 months after we got married -- so, how heartless is that -- if he wasn't satisfied with his sex life did he maybe think I was dealing with some crap myself?!?! I was devestated when my mom died. Now - he later backed off that 1 year time but that was after i commented that he barely gave us a chance before he ran off to get some elsewhere -- then he said maybe it was 2 or 3 years after we got married -- i tend to go with answer #1 though. And, quite frankly, that pisses me off. So - I struggle with that.

Not sure that me going dark on him would then have him with OW 24/7 - she lives in Canada... he's in Pennsylvania -- now, he's managed to spend plenty of time w/ her because he is able to work remotely but he won't be moving in w/ her... but I suppose she could pick up her life and move here... who knows... she seems that pathetic and she just may do that...

Plan B may be do-able for me -- I feel better when I don't see him. Even if I get an e-mail from him my hands start shaking. I don't know what that all means though. I'll take another look at the Plan B letter. I also want to check out Dobson's love must be tough book -- he has a letter in there that isn't really Plan Bish but may fit my ridiculous situation better.

ugh... confused... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Make it your goal to develop a PLAN, whatever it is! You end up a loser if you give in to your CONFUSION. I keep trying to encourage you to work on your STRENGTH. No one can take care of you now but yourself. I also believe in GOD. However, when I was in your position, that was my limit. Not friends, not family, no one but me and GOD.

BTW, I will be leaving early tomorrow morning and not returning to the forum until Thursday. I'm letting you know in case you were wanting to communicate with me before then.

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi - I know I need a plan. I also believe in God - he's helped me through some rough patches and I'm leaning on Him through this as well.

My plan right now is to get away from him which is the only way I'm going to be able to start caring about myself. I'm really starting to dislike him and his behavior. I know that the house needs to be sold and I need to get into my own space so I can start to heal and get some strength. My only question now is how much contact to "allow" - do i go completely dark?? I think I may better answer that question when I'm moved out and in my own space. I'm sticking with my current sell the house and get an apartment plan -- we have financial and household issues we'll need to discuss but i certainly don't need to talk to him everyday.

I will feel better about me when I take some steps forward for ME - which includes getting my own space and slapping him into some sort of reality of life without me -- though quite honestly at this point... i don't know that he'll notice!

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

stillprocessing,

I really see you doing better. You are asking the right questions and processing the possible answers. You are getting into the place where you could make a rational decision <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

If you take the "tough love" route, you keep full contact. If you are doing plan B, you have to keep it dark. Get 3rd party to pass/edit the information just about the financial and/or emergency only. I really suggest you to think about it before you move out.

Could you buy him out ?, interest rate is low and many lender would consider Spousal Support as a legit income. Just an option to look for.

-rh-

RH - nope, can't buy him out... can't afford it.. plus the location isn't feasible for me with my commute time, etc and living alone...

hmmmm... tough love or plan b?? which would you suggest considering my situation? I'm thinking tough love.... main reason being that a plan B letter just won't work for me - at this point, after all he's done, i can't in all honesty write down on a piece of paper that if he gives up OW i'll take him back (or words to that effect as per plan b letter) - I think the tough love letter will fit my scenario better because in my brain I need to move forward as I really don't see much hope for him snapping out of anything anytime soon -- i need to move past that and move forward with me.

Your thoughts?

Since you have been in plan A, you should finish it up with plan B. You might have been staying too long in plan A to the point that your LB$ has been overdrawn. That is unfortunate. However if you read MB it states that in-love could be created if one willing to let it. Yes, at this point you don't want WH ... I would not recomend it either. However would you take back your H, and w/ a promise of better H and M ?. If you would then stick it up a 'lil longer then hand him plan B letter when you move out. You don't need to say that you would take him back in plan B letter, you could states that you might give M a chance is he willing to. It is not a gurantee you are taking him back. Go very dark Plan B.

Tough Love is very applicable to WS with other problems than addiction to A/OP.

-rh-

RH - thanks. At this point, I think I'll be winging it. I haven't talked to WH since Friday - me "going dark" will have no effect on him. He doesn't care. I've got to get myself out of where I am and take care of what I need to take care of.

I've found an apartment and am moving out the week after Christmas. Have been working on the house to get it ready to sell (with no help from WH) and hope to have it listed within a week or so.

I'm done being completely disrespected by WH as he runs off and spend 5 days with OW. I asked him to stick around so we could get things done to the house so we can get it sold. He remains in fantasy land with zero responsibilities.

I'm going to go as dark as possible with him. Only talk to him (preferably via e-mail) when necessary. Once the house is sold I won't have much reason to talk to him. So, we'll see. At this point I have to start thinking and worrying about me.

You say tough love is applicable to people with other problems other than addiction to OW... what type of problems? I think my WH fits in to that category -- he's got underlying issues that have caused this behavior (multiple affairs, etc..) had an alcoholic, abusive father growing up, has definite esteem/ego issues... is that the type of stuff you mean??

Hi Still,

You sound strong. Also sounds like you know what you want to do and are taking control of the things that you have some control over. You, ultimately, are the only one who can decide which "plan" is right for you.

Just keep your H in the freezer for now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You leaving, getting stronger, etc may be the jolt he needs. Then, maybe, he can Plan A you and you can decide if he's worth your time and effort!

Take care,
Jenny