Hi everyone. this is my first post here although i have been lurking and learning since the day after d day when I found this site. I have to thank you all for helping me these tough few weeks.
My situation is I live in south america, small country and city, married 19 years 3 teenage daughters. I´m 46, my WH is 48 and OW is his "personal" secretary 20+ (not sure though I have known her for about 5-6 years). d day was 23 october when I finally confirmed he was spending the weekend with her. He admitted the affair but said it was not important and showed no remorse or intention of giving it up. Since then he had not spent the weekend with her until last weekend but carried on the affair. We also agreed at that early date that we would separate but would wait until after Xmas because my 17 yr old twin daughters have their final exams on the 23rd december and this would be very disruptive for them.I have plan Ad asmuch as I can, only my family and a couple of my friends have been told and are very supportive.
My question is that tomorrow saturday he willprobably leave for the weekend. Should I try to stop him? what should I say? and also should I expose the affair to MIL? She has never liked me too much. I don´t have many details of the affair because he just refuses to speak about it. Seems to feel some guilt but not enough ...

Please forgive any language mistakes.

Hi cc,

First of all...your English is excellent...so no worries okay? I lived in South America many times, and as you already know, the scenario you describe is a typical one. So let's talk about Plan A, which you know has several parts. Fill the needs he'll allow, stop love busting, exposure and confrontation. Yes, I do think you should talk to his mother and father and ask for their help. If she doesn't like you much...she may not help much...but destroying secrecy is the aim so go ahead and do it anyway. How about the work situation? I'm guessing that the company will "look the other way" because of where you are. I know in my husband's company, almost all the executives were having affairs so I wouldn't have gotten much help there. Lastly, you can't control what he does....not even if he leaves to be with her this weekend. However....you should confront him by making statements (not discussions) about how this feels. You can make respectful requests about not going. Make sure this stuff is put into *I* statements. "I feel__________when_________." "It's embarrassing and hurtful for me when you leave to spend the weekend with XXX".

The big problem is that you are dealing with a very 'fogged" spouse. Reaching the man you knew right now is going to be very difficult, because he's been replaced by an "alien" that just looks like your husband. The first six months of affairs are so intense and the biochemical levels so high....that it's extremely hard to make progress. He is capable of many hurtful acts and cruelty in this state of mind.

Welcome to forum cc....I'm sorry you needed to be here, but you will find great help and comfort here.

((((((((((((((((((cc))))))))))))))))))))

thanks for your prompt reply, starfish. I needed a little encouragement to reveal the affair to his mother (his father died before I met him). She does not like me much and is bearing her other 2 sons problems as well (1 divorcing, the other unemployed and broke)but she´sthe most influential person I can think of.
As for the work situation, he´sthe boss at both his jobs which gives him the freedom and thepower to do whatever he wants at both his jobs and allows OW too, since she is his personal secretary. I think that most people either suspect or know of the A in his work environment but he´s the boss so nobody has done anything about it and would not be surprised if I should disclose it to them.
Anyway, this is a very small community we move in, so I have to be a bit careful of not doing things that I may regret in the futur. There is nopossibility of moving, we willboth have tocontinue living here forever. There are some cultural differences too, As may be more "acceptable" for men still here.
I should have seen it coming, and maybe I could have done something to avoid the A although it would probably not have been effective because I think that he also has a MLC. So tonight I will ask him if he plans to go and tell him how much it hurts me and tomorrow I will call my MIL.
Thanks again, I feel the support I so envied all of you who were unselfishly sharing your experiences on the net

cc - What are your thoughts on telling your daughters? How do you think they would react? They are old enough to understand and if your H has a close relationship with them, their disapproval could be very powerful - assuming they would disapprove.

I suggest you do nothing rash at this point - a twenty something (single ?) girl likely has no intention of seeking a long term relationship with a 48 year old married man with daughters that could pass as sisters. At least "long term" for her may be just over the horizon.

Wat,
my daughters are 17, 17 (will be 18 in jan 05) and 16. They are very close to him and he has always been a great father but they knowhe has mood changes and consider him a bit excentric so they are not aware that anything is wrong. I think they will be very angry although I´m not sure about telling them about the affair yet. I personally think that if I don´t they will either immediately find out or someone will tell them and that it´s best they find out from me, but can I be just wanting some revenge by telling them? I´m sure that it will hurt him alot when they don´t accept his A as calmly as I did (don´t ask me how I did it. He was with OW at the beach house when I confirmed the A so I sent him an e mail telling him I knew. 2 days later when he came back I was calm, no LBs, I had already started reading MB).
Disclosure to my daughters is my best bet of getting him out of the fog, but I can´t do that for their sakes until they finish their exams dec 24th! so it will have to be the Xmas or the 26th...
I´m still hoping I´ll never have to do it, but in this real world I´m nearly sure I will have to.My husband has always been very slow reacting to things.If the little he has said is true the PA started in august, (probably EA long before that) which means it took her years to convince him... so I don´t expect him to come out of the fog too quickly.

cc -

Welcome to MarriageBuilders. Your English is excellent. I don't think we have anyone else from South America, so good to hear from you.

Chances are excellent that your husband will come back to the marriage. I agree with you to wait awhile to tell your daughters. It is very upsetting to teenage children.

Stay in Plan A. That is your best course of action. Expect your husband to be very cold and unfeeling towards you. But he will notice your behavior.

Now is the time to work on making changes in yourself. Also keep your home warm and inviting. Get busy with things to make you feel better. When you are going crazy, come here and post. We have been through it, and understand.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cc46:
<strong>I personally think that if I don´t they will either immediately find out or someone will tell them and that it´s best they find out from me, but can I be just wanting some revenge by telling them?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only you can answer the revenge question.

When we advise to expose an affair it's solely to remove the secrecy to remove the affair's fantasy, as staf*fish stated, with the desired result of continung the affair less comfortable for the affairees.

Very, very frequently - you'll see posts right now on this forum about it - affair exposure is labeled as vindictive or vengeful and enacted with malice, but usually by cheating spouses. It very likely feels that way to a WS or may even look that way to any outsider, but it can be implemented with pure motives and delivered in a loving way.

I concur with your decision to not tell your daughters until after exams - but no later. As you recognize, they may find out on their own any minute. If they start to ask questions or drop hints to you, do NOT cover for their father. Honesty and forthrightness has to be your practice.

WAT

Also, I wanted to point out an opportunity for you. Christmas is a time for families and while this is likely to be one of the saddest holidays for you (I'm so sorry <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ) it's also a good time for H to see what he's giving up. And you know what? I think it's perfectly okay for you to ask your H "H, is this something you wanted to tell the girls yourself? Or should I sit down with them and talk to them. Sooner or later, they're going to need to know the truth. I'm worried they'll hear it from someone else, and it's getting harder and harder for me to hide my emotions."

If your daughters live with you, there's a good chance they know what's going on anyway. My 17 year old son certainly had it all figured out.

I'm struggling with the Happy Christmas family thing myself. Good luck!

Thanks all for your advice and here go my answers.
First Starfish,I´ve been thinking about my MIL and have decided that it is too risky for her health, both mental and physical,for me to tellher now,so maybe it was out of spite or something that I wanted to. I´ll extend the kindness of letting her find out after Xmas when it is inevitable, although she has never been kind to me. Also, she probably wouldn´t be much help and the risk that the girls would find out would be much greater.So I´ll just let her find out from her son, and if she ever asks me I´ll tell her the truth as I see it or know it. Who knows how she´ll react. My H is her best son,the other two have already disappointed her. I´ll let you know.It may be a surprise.
The girls have no idea,they would have said something. My H is a workaholic, he worked at home in the afternoons until May this year when he moved the business away and has a job in the morning somewhere else. So they consider it normal for him to leave early and,since may,come home late (9pm). Also he has been going to the beach house nearly every weekend, first because the bathrooms were being redone and then other reasons but he was never bothered if I went along (before) or if one of the girls goes along.The A probably takes place during the day, so the weekend is a bonus.
He had been very distant for about 2 years and getting progressively distant and uncaring,and starting to pick fights with all of us but after d day he has been much nicer, he started hugging me everyday, has been more interested in the girls, he buys us stuff, he wants to buy me a new car, and is very pleasant. So it´s easy to plan A, I guess I have been doing the best I can since march, but what I have started doing different since d day is having a life of my own. At least I´m trying. But he nevers asks me anything about what I do or where I go. So for the moment everything is surprisingly pleasant in appearance and the only one who suffers in silence is me. Thank God I have the support of my family and a few friends.
These last few years the extended families have got together at our place for Xmas so a couple of weeks ago I asked him what we were going to do this year, and he said the usual, invite them all over, and don´t forget your cousin who got divorced last year, and anyone else who wants to come. He even bought sweets and things for the Xmas dinner! So he is in a total fog!
Star, when we first talked it was always him who was going to speak to the girls after Xmas, but we haven´t actually talked about WHAT he´s going to tell them. As I said before he refuses to speak about those subjects, and acts as though everything is under control and he knows what he is doing. He´s looking at places to live when he leaves...
I guess the key here is patience. I see him so little that it´s easy to be nice when he´s around.
Wat,my home is warm, it´s summer here and no AC!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Actually I´m always ready to greet him when he comes home, pleasant small talk, dinner ready or a beer and a snack if he´s early and when he´s late, we don´t wait, but there are no reproaches and I accompany him while he has his dinner. So I hope I am following instructions.

Thanks all for your support

Okay cc....sounds like the first part of Plan A is being done very well....buuuuuuuuuuut...what about "confrontation"? Sounds like you have trouble with that part? You're so worried about his reaction that you "suffer in silence"...what if you didn't? I think it's absolutely essential NOT to suffer in silence. I'm not suggesting you are disrespectful...but it's vitally important that you don't pretend to be okay either.

((((((((((((((((cc)))))))))))))))

Star, you are right there.I guess neither of us likes confontation but I have tried and I don´t get more than yes or no from him. Last monday I asked him if he had taken her that weekend,and first there was silence, then he said: why do you ask? soi told him I thought I had the right to know. so he said yes. Then nothing. I know I said something else probably like I don´t think you wouldlike it if I slept with somebody here. He just got up, hugged me and left. I try but it feels like nagging, because he does not want to talk about it. He gave me the line I´m not in love with you any more and that for him justifies eveything else. When I mentioned the affair he inmediately cut me off saying that it wasn´t important????? He is an alien really in a fog.
We haver never really had fights.Lots of times we have disagreed, been able to talk, there have been times he has been angry and not talking tome for few days but it never lasted long and we were able to talk and make up. We have really had a good marriage in that sense.
It´s just that if it´s like he has a plastic covering and doesn´t let anything in... confonting seems like a LB at this time. I´m waiting forhim to snap out and then I have lots of things I would like to change tomake our marriage better. We both have to find more time to spend together. I had already realized that some changes were needed a few years ago and was going about making them when he started to distance himself from allof us. I thought it might be MLC but he would not admit anything was wrong and always had a rational explanation. then I decided to give him some time... and all this happened.
If it hadn´t I probably would have found MB but not be in the infidelity forum but some other place,because I was looking to revive my marriage.
It was so unexpected! and the futur seems so uncertain, but I have hope.

cc,

Now we're getting somewhere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess neither of us likes confontation but I have tried and I don´t get more than yes or no from him.

Well without even going further I already know that you don't truly understand "confrontation" because it does not consist of questions that require yes or no answers...in fact, it is not a question at all...it's a statement.

Last monday I asked him if he had taken her that weekend,and first there was silence, then he said: why do you ask? soi told him I thought I had the right to know. so he said yes. Then nothing. I know I said something else probably like I don´t think you wouldlike it if I slept with somebody here. He just got up, hugged me and left. I try but it feels like nagging, because he does not want to talk about it.

Okay...this a DISCUSSION...not confrontation. R talks probably remove more love units than anything else during active As...so what I'm talking about is different.

He gave me the line I´m not in love with you any more and that for him justifies eveything else. When I mentioned the affair he inmediately cut me off saying that it wasn´t important????? He is an alien really in a fog.

Yup....he's following the fog script and he has alien biochemistry...which is why discussions, questions etc. will not yield good results.

We haver never really had fights.Lots of times we have disagreed, been able to talk, there have been times he has been angry and not talking tome for few days but it never lasted long and we were able to talk and make up. We have really had a good marriage in that sense.

Amazingly....confrontation is not really confrontational is the sense that it isn't AT ALL about fights...it's about statements. Self affirming, feeling statements that are delivered without expectations, discussions, inquiries etc.

It´s just that if it´s like he has a plastic covering and doesn´t let anything in... confonting seems like a LB at this time.

See above^ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I´m waiting forhim to snap out and then I have lots of things I would like to change tomake our marriage better.

Ooh chere...don't expect his biochemistry to return to normal for sometime...that is way off in the distance. I'm sorry...but at the height of the A, when his biochemistry is producing the same effects in his brain as cocaine...he is an addict needing a fix.

We both have to find more time to spend together. I had already realized that some changes were needed a few years ago and was going about making them when he started to distance himself from allof us. I thought it might be MLC but he would not admit anything was wrong and always had a rational explanation. then I decided to give him some time... and all this happened.
If it hadn´t I probably would have found MB but not be in the infidelity forum but some other place,because I was looking to revive my marriage.
It was so unexpected! and the futur seems so uncertain, but I have hope.

Remain hopeful, but please understand that this is a process that takes time, consistency, patience....and I'm so sad...but pain.

But now lets talk about what "confrontation" IS:

It's about you....not him. (Please use feelings statements that begin with "I". "I feel________when________."

It isn't a discussion or a question.

You have no expectations it will change him or direct him. (It might...but don't hold your breath)

You make the statement and do not get sucked into an R talk or disussion of any sort. You say how you feel and stop there.

It's about how you feel when he acts certain ways, but it's focussed on you and your emotions.

It's delivered without crying, begging, or disrespect.

It's about the way his actions are affecting you and his children.

So....some good examples:

"H, I'm feeling sad about telling our girls about the fact that we're separating. I'm afraid they will be crushed about this."

"H, Everytime you leave the house, I feel sick inside about all of this."

"I believe that our marriage is worth saving."

"I feel humiliated that you are unwilling to stop seeing this OW while we are still married. I feel confused when you disrespect me in this way."

"I feel hopeful, that if you weren't involved with someone else that we would have a chance to save our marriage."

None of these statements requires an answer, action or response from your fogged and unco-operative WS...there are only an expression of how you feel....and a reminder that none of this is okay with you.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

PLEASE copy Star*fish's post ... and memorize it for future reference.

Pep

Got it! I´ll translate into spanish and try to deliver them at appropriate times.
I used to say that kind of thing. I remember now.

cc,

You don't need to translate my words....just understand the process so that you translate this way of expression into your life, because those were just examples I tried to fit within the things happening to you. You can certainly use them if you wish....but don't be LIMITED by them...create some of your own statements that define how you uniquely feel and tailor them to the circumstances that arise.

Good Luck! I will have you in my prayers.

Ok. First I asked him if he was leaving tomorrow, and when he said he was I told him it hurt me and I felt it showed disrespect. that I wouldprefer he not gowith her while we are together. His face went very dark and he just said ok. So I said thank you and left.
I don´t know if he´ll take her or not and it won´t be easy to find out. Anyway,like Scarlett O´Hara,I´ll think about that tomorrow.
It´s nearly midnight... but I can´t sleep yet

Stick with us, and we will help you. It is very common to have a hard time sleeping. Most of us have been through that.

You have done very well. You spoke to your husband calmly. He knows how you feel.

Now you need to take care of yourself, and do some things that make you feel good.

He did not go. I guess if can´t go with her he´ll stay and be with her here. He didn´t tellme he was not going and this morning although slightly colder towards me than he has been lately he read some papers and things and at 11 left for his ¨"office" and said he didn´t know whether he´d be back for lunch. At least he respected my wishes. He has also avoided speaking to my brother because he knows my brother does not approve so some things do penetrate the fog.
Patience!
Thanks for your support.

cc,

How interesting....see, he may not like doing the right thing....but he still knows what it is. When confronted with your feelings...it's much harder for him to act badly....that's the whole purpose. Continue to let him know with statements and requests how you feel and what you need. It's okay if he's colder....he won't like giving up his obsession. Meanwhile continue to meet needs he'll allow, don't love bust...and as soon as the time is right...expose this affair.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />