MIker....

I didn't want Hoosiers thread to become 'all about me'...so I'll open this up ...


you said:

quote:
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Originally posted by soulloss:
I never wanted him to have to look at these people at family functions and feel judged or ashamed....I wanted to protect him...and I often still do...

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In my opinion he should have felt judged and ashamed and you shouldn't have protected him. Is that what led to you having your A, you didn't feel he "paid" enough for his A?

Just to answer my own curiosity... As both a WS and BS how could you have an A when you know how it felt to be a BS?

I don't think I would have ever had an A before I became a BS but now I know I would NEVER, EVER do it knowing how it feels to be a BS.

I do wish you peace Dylan.

Miker


well..for a really quick rundown ...here is what I recently posted to someone:


my name is Dylan, and I am Dewt's W...or exW...pick a label...sigh...

we have been at MB for 5 years...starting with Dewt's PA 5 years ago...

I had the affair this time...like you, with a woman...like you, I feel a sense of 'limbo'....the "Oh-my-god-I-had-an-affair-with-a-woman" aspect is sooooo underrated by many...I feel awash in sexual confusion...

like you, I was adamantly hetero....and had a strict moral code and boundries...

I betrayed myself as well as my H and family...

I can't yet look in the mirror...

Unlike you, my 'affair' was not 3 years long, nor was it hidden or lied about...it started out as OW and I being friends...platonic friends, she was exiting a rough abusive relationship with another woman at the same time.......June - Oct 2003...needing a place to live, we needing extra income, she rented our spare room...at the end of Oct 2003, she had an accident at work and was house-bound for the next month....we spent nov. getting closer and physical(nothing MAJORLY physical yet)....

ALL with Dewt's knowledge...hell, he even gave me 'tips'...Dec. he spent trying desperately to save his sanity....and in my own way, so did I....Jan 2 2004, he packed up the mini-van, our 7 yr old, and left me when I could not re-commit right then and there, to our marriage....

it was truly an 'experiment' gone wrong....it was supposed to be 3 of us engaged in polyamory...but feelings developed for the OW...unexpected feelings...the '3-some' angle never materialized and Dewt went nuts watching her and I grow closer....

I was left in a tail-spin, wondering if I was gay, bi,..???!?... if this had bearing on all the effeminate men I had dated over the years, I needed to look at my life...my past...my issues...open up to myself and discover what the hell allowed me to do this devastating thing to my family...the people I love most in the world...

was THIS what I had been lacking that led me to break vows I held more sacred than my own life???..I honestly felt I had personal questions that I needed personal answers to....the first month after he had left me...I never even saw OW...I spent that dark time in an empty 5 bedroom house in the dark, slept in my son's bed surrounded by anything that smelled like him....

I have NO idea IF I want my marriage....much has happened in between my affair and now...

Dewt has been with 4 women during our separation which began last Jan and ended in Aug....something I have issues with (yes, even while in the throes of my own affair) as he stated time and time again he wanted to be married to me...wanted me still...loved me still...missed me....missed us....to me, those words do not 'jive' with the actions he instead took....

sort of a "you want me to get off the proverbial fence and decide to rebuild our marriage....ok...well,...you're busy right now with your girlfriend...so how about we hit the pause button on our M instead...come see me on my fence when you're done..."

how could I EVER believe he was serious and truly loved me when all it seemed to me, was a rush on his part, to have me 'replaced'....have someone to stroke his ego, someone to be intimate with...but all the while claiming he wanted our marriage?!?!?!

NC was established in June....I moved out of the OW's town and back in with my son and Dewt....to co-habitate and raise our son....

no 'marriagebuilding' as yet.....

Dylan

So Miker, I hadn't really labelled it an A...during it..more of a 3-some gone horribly wrong...Dewt kept many of his true feelings under wraps...

How could I do this to him having been a BS?...I'm not certain....again, up to a certain point in the timeline, I did not see it as 'betraying' him as he was actively involved...

perhaps I was just beaten down and feeling hopeless, 5 years on...that all the changes promised never happened...that being fathful was the only change that stuck....

Dewt is home for lunch....I will continue this later...

Dylan

Forgive me for jumping in here....I have seen some of dewt's posts but I had never seen your "story"...my H had two A over the past 10 years; one with a man, the other with a woman. I'm the BS in this case, although God knows I certainly did my share of pushing H as far away as I could (long story, and I can share it later if you would like) and setting the stage for this mess that we are in. H "blames" me for the relationship with OM and OW, and is now in the process of letting go of OW. He has NC with OM. He has gone through the same process you are doing--wondering where he is on the spectrum, and where he would really fit in. He claims he is not gay, or even bi, but driven to his relationship with OM because of my coldness (and I don't deny my own role in this, sigh...)

I feel the same way you do. I feel the numbness, the indecision, wondering whether all that can come from our relationship is a coparenting agreement (we have two children under the age of 4). For what it's worth, it's rather gutsy of you to share your side, and I hope that you and Dewt can rebuild and find some peace.

Sorry to interrupt your thread!

Thanks for that Dylan.

I really don't know what to say. Its a confusing and messy situation and hope you can somehow navigate though it and find some inner peace.

All the best,

Miker

Hello Soulloss,

I can relate to your story. Somehow in our generation we've been given a lot of hogwash about "polyamory" -- and thought somehow human nature can be manipulated to fit our "advanced" theories. My own observations are that it doesn't work that way. Many of us had to find out the hard way.

Best of luck to you and dewt.

Dylan,

This is the first time I have read yours and Dewt's story from your side. I admire your courage, in more ways than one.

I have no words of wisdom or anything, but I am very glad to see you posting. It's amazing the healing that can happen on this board. I don't know that I could have come as far as I have without it. It's wierd but I think I'm almost happy now. Even managed to quit smoking and drinking wine every night.

And regarding what you wrote in another thread - Dylan for what it's worth, I don't think you are a piece of ****, far from it. And if their are people in your new area who think that is so, then find another circle of friends (you too Dewt). The people we let into are life uplift us and help to make us whole, not tear us down with false and unfair judgements.

Take care Dylan.

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Sorry Dylan, I replied to you on the other thread before I saw this one.

I wasn't surprised to see you write:
"5 years on...that all the changes promised never happened...that being fathful was the only change that stuck...."

I read it between the lines of the first posts of dewt's that I read.

I don't think I'm going to reply to you any more, or even read your threads because I think it might be better if I only *know* what dewt is writing--or what he is writing between the lines.

I see a lot in dewt that is similar to my FWH. Maybe that's why I bounce back and forth between wanting to help him and wanting to choke him til his eyes bulge?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I've learned a lot from my situation. Maybe it won't end up helping, but I'd like to keep trying as long as dewt wants me to.

I truly wish you well Dylan. I think you're going to be just fine. Know that I'll keep you in my prayers.

Take care

...it was supposed to be 3 of us engaged in polyamory...

...and left me when I could not re-commit right then and there, to our marriage...

Without invalidating Dylans view, and without hijacking this thread, and certainly without claiming to be blameless, I would like to speak up and just say that I have a considerably different perspective on these issues.

dewt

First of all to Dewt - understood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We all have different perspectives than each other (thank goodness or how terribly dull life would be, and how would we ever grow, with no other perspectives other than our own)

To Dylan who said -

Dewt has been with 4 women during our separation which began last Jan and ended in Aug....something I have issues with (yes, even while in the throes of my own affair) as he stated time and time again he wanted to be married to me...wanted me still...loved me still...missed me....missed us....to me, those words do not 'jive' with the actions he instead took....

This is one of the biggest issue's I had with my ex fiancee who when we broke up to figure things out, ran right into the arms of another woman. This devastated me when I found out, but after really trying to understand the "why" instead of the "how could he" aspect of it, I came to realize that everyone has different coping skills or lack there of. I know now that in my case he loved me, but could not deal with the panic, anxiety or fear of facing himself without a woman to cushion this fear, and keep him from fully realizing it. It had absolutely nothing to do with his love for me, it only had to do with his lifelong pattern of conflict avoidance. Starting with the complete abandonment of his dad when he was a teen and his total failure during his high school years.

My ex-fiancee will work hard to understand and fix this weakness of his, and learn ways of facing his problems head on, without the band-aid that another woman would bring in times of stress and conflict with me if we are to ever have a future together. Of course I neither have a child with him nor live with him any more, so it is easier for us in a lot of ways...not quite so much at stake, and a lot less history together.

Him and Dewt are a lot alike, I think.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>..but after really trying to understand the "why" instead of the "how could he" aspect of it, I came to realize that everyone has different coping skills or lack there of. I know now that in my case he loved me, but could not deal with the panic, anxiety or fear of facing himself without a woman to cushion this fear, and keep him from fully realizing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's good that you realize this. Did the realization change how you felt about this? LDid it help you to forgive him or not take it so personally?

The thing is, realizing this doesn't remove it from being. Certain coping skills are counter-productive and give only fleeting satisfaction while really they are just making the original problem all that much worse. Does he see this? Is he willing to do something about it?

[qb]It had absolutely nothing to do with his love for me, it only had to do with his lifelong pattern of conflict avoidance.[qb]

I'd like to ask you a few more questions about this... like, for example, what changes in him would you have to see for him to become attractive as a Man? Stuff like that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BUT I don't want to hijack Dyln's thread!

So, Without further ado I will adjourn with a promise to come back and addrest the original subject matter and, uh...

k-bye-seeya

dewt

It's good that you realize this. Did the realization change how you felt about this? LDid it help you to forgive him or not take it so personally?

Yes Dewt, this realization has made all the difference in the world. I can't even explain the peace it has brought me. And yes it has helped me to forgive him.

Don't know why it took me so long to figure it out either.

I feel the realization is important. It's one of the things that helped me find peace and forgiveness too.

But I also know that it doesn't really change much in the practical world. Understanding the behaviour doesn't make it any more acceptable.

<strong>Don't know why it took me so long to figure it out either.</strong>

Darn. That was going to be my next question.

John