I posted this in the Emotional Needs forum and didn't receive any replies - thought maybe it belongs here. I'd also like to ask if anyone has any experience with porn addiction counceling. I saw a link on here to sex-addiction.com - the man ("Joe")says he offers free phone counceling. Has anyone pursued this before? I'm feeling desperate. My husband just called me and now says he is willing to seek help for his addiction and wants to save our marriage. I'm afraid to believe him again.

Thank you for any help - here is my previous post:


My head is swimming and I need some imput. I'm not sure if I want people to calm me down, offer advice, tell me it's time to move on...or I just need to post to purge it from my system.

My husband (married 12, together for 18) is addicted to porn. He had Playboy mag and some Penthouses when I first met him and claimed it was "left-overs" from earlier years. What I didn't know at the time was that it was the first of MANY lies to come.

He got rid of all the mags (or so I thought at the time) the first year we were together. I really didn't give it much thought after that until many years later...when we got our first computer.

We had only had it for about a month. I came home in the middle of a busy day to pick something up and had to check something online. He was very new to computers and hadn't yet learned how to cover his tracks. I clicked on the history to locate a site I wanted to go back to and a mile long list of porn sites showed up. I was stunned.

I confronted him and he denied it for 3 days - actually told me I was crazy and tried to convince me that someone else had "hacked" our computer and put it there. He finally spilled his guts, professed to be so deeply upset and sorry. The usual excuses - I was just curious, it doesn't mean anything, all guys do it, I didn't really go to all those sites - it was pop-ups, etc.

I changed the passwords to our ISP and naively thought I'd solved the problem. No ISP access, no porn access. Cut to 4 years later...

Our child found a paycheck stub on the basement floor and brought it to me - she thought it might be something important that we had missplaced. It wasn't a stub from his job - he was playing a video type game they have in restaurants, bars, etc. that has tournaments where you can win cash. I went and looked around near where she had found them and found an entire stack he'd been hiding. Apparently he's quite good at this game and was winning money every month. His own little secret source of income.

I looked though his wallet and found a letter from a girl he worked with - a poem actually. It was very clear what was going on. He was in the shower, so I decided to also check out his car before I confronted him. He had a large box filled with 1000's of porn pics he had printed out. The dates at the bottom of the printouts indicated he had been doing this for at least a year.

I confronted him and he (much to my shock) didn't try to deny or backtrack on anything. I was even more shocked by that then the actual porn and affair. He said he felt relieved to finally get it all out. I just sat there and listened for what seemed like hours. By the end, I realized that I had no clue who this person actually was. Everything I thought was real, everything I thought I knew about him, was completely wrong. He became a complete stranger to me.

I can't even express what was going though my head at the time. My brain was spinning and a million different thoughts and possible actions were all swimming in my head at the same time. I felt so incredibly abused, but I also felt so stupid. You see, I always thought an affair wasn't even possible. I took care of the finances and every dollar was accounted for. I knew where he was every second of the day and night. What I hadn't even contemplated was that he would be screwing someone AT HIS PLACE OF BUSINESS and downloading porn ON THE WORK COMPUTER. Never even crossed my mind that it was a possibility.

For the first few days, I just assumed it was over, but things were very complicated. I'm a SAHM and financially dependant on him. I didn't have anywhere to go, no money of my own and my child was in her last 2+ months of elementary school at the time (this Spring). He doesn't make enough to support 2 households. I didn't want to tell anyone else what was going on, so I ended up online desperately looking for information. That's when I found this site.

Over the course of a week of reading everything I could find on here and buying the books mentioned, something shifted. I calmed down and realized a didn't have to make a decision immediately. I could take my time, do the work and make sure I was doing what was best for my child and myself. That was a huge step for me.

My husband saw the change immediately and it had such a huge impact on his own behavior. I was stunned again! The things mentioned on here and in the books were actually working. Knock me over with a feather.

We had many long and involved discussions and decided we had too much time invested in this relationship to not at least try to save our marriage.

I couldn't believe how great things were between us. Our marriage felt better, more honest, more loving than it had ever been. I never thought I could feel so loving towards him again. I thought we had really turned the corner.

Cut to the last 3 months...

He started slipping back into old behavior patterns. I tried to bring it up calmly and talk about it. In the beginning, he would admit, apologize, recommit to doing better, etc. I still hung in there. Pretty soon he was "accidently" falling asleep on the sofa night after night. Eventually he didn't even attempt to claim he was still trying. He still claimed to be the new honest version of himself though - no lying, no porn, no secret income, etc.

Then, he lost his job. I'm very involved in my daughter's school, so I was up there twice a week and he was home alone. He started acting suspicious - I just felt it. Sure enough, I found unaccounted for money and more porn. He denied it and called me crazy for a week. Finally admitted to it today.

I couldn't take it anymore - it just hurt too much. I can't wrap my brain around why someone would revert to such horrible behavior after seeing and experiencing how good things can be when we're both making the effort. I gave him my absolute best - I don't have anything better to give.

I asked him to leave. Since he lost his job, he's around here almost 24 hours a day and I just couldn't handle that right now. He refused and told me to leave, knowing I had nowhere to go and a child to worry about. I threatened to reveal everything I know to all the people he most wants to hide it from - his family, his former employer, etc. He left - I have no idea where he went. I'm not sure I even want to know right now.

I'm at a total lose. With no income or insurance, we have no ability to seek counceling right now. I can't go back to living the way we were prior to the initial changes. I know this is supposed to be a pro-marriage site, but is it even possible for someone so selfish to change permanently? Has anyone on here been in a similar situation and had their spouse change their behavior and attitude permanetly? I can't continue this marriage if he's going to revert to old behaviors everytime he's stressed out. How many times can a man expect his wife to start all over again? The pain is just so tremendous.

I'm so sorry this is so long. Thank you for letting me get it all out.

Hi Turmoil,

I have no experience with dealing with this type of addiction, but I do have with alcoholics and gambling addicts. I would imagine porn is along the same lines of any aother addictions but I don't know.

I do know if his marriage and child are of value to him he will find a way to kick the habit for good. You need support through this also. You need to educate yourself on this type of addiction, what causes it, how to beat it, what to expect as far as a relapse rate, etc.

I don't know where one would get support and help for porn addiction and hope someone else can help you here.

Hang in there Turmoil -

wishing you the best.

Hi turmoil,

As part of my training to coach at symc, we are required to study sexual addiction. First, let me say this to you....it is an epidemic in this country and you are far from alone in your struggle. In fact the fastest growing numbers of users...is women who no longer have to leave home to explore sexuality. With the advent of the Internet, pornography has exploded...and so have the problems for marriages.

There is help for your husband, and for your marriage...but MB does not work with addictions and you can see the evidence in your marriage precisely why....even when things are GOOD...the pull of the addiction is strong and can undo all the work you have put in. Think of pornography like a drug...because sexual addiction works that way in the brain.

One of the best resources around is SAA. Here's a link for you:

http://www.sexaa.org/

They offer the same kind of 12 step program for SA, that AA offers for alchoholics. I think that this is the kind of program that your husband needs to face his addiction, and he will have other men and women who understand and will help him be accountable. I don't know if it is free, but I think it is.

I can't choose for you chere...but if it were me, joining this kind of group would be one of my conditions for reconciliation. You've seen what your marriage is like when he isn't giving in to his addictions...so deal with that first, and there is hope for your marriage.

Best of luck to you.

weaver - thanks for the support. I'm sorry you've had to deal with other addictions. I certainly believe it is an addiction. That's even the word he finally used when I asked him to leave. He said he can't seem to stop permanently and he doesn't understand why - he looked beaten. Usually he's defensive about it and tries to make it into my problem.

Maybe he's finally willing to see it as a true detriment to our marriage and do what it takes to end this once and for all. I'm holding firm this time - I told him he can't come back until he seeks help.

This is an incredibly awkward situation - he went to his mom's. She of course wanted to know what was going on. He told her we had a big fight and I asked him to leave. She asked him if he did anything and his response was that he "...did many things - I'm just a bad husband." I'm sure I'll get a call from her this weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Star*fish - thank you so much for the information. I checked out the link you posted. Unfortunately, we're in one of the only 6 states that don't have any groups listed - and we're no where near any in other states either. What were the chances? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I checked out their link to other similar groups and there are groups near us for the following:

Sexaholics Anonymous (groups in our area)
Sexual Compulsives Anonymous (groups in our area)
Sexual Recovery Anonymous (2 hours away)

Do you know anything about these groups? Would he benefit from one more than another or are they all pretty much the same since they're based on the 12-step program?

This is going to be a hard sell so any advise and imformation you have to offer is tremendously appreciated. He is an extremely private person (also not really religious). He didn't want to go to private counceling (when we had insurance & the means) because he didn't think it was appropriate to "...air our dirty laundry..." His entire family is like that, so I'm not going to get any support from them. Heck, none of them even go to a regular doctor when they should. If he tells them, they're going to tell him I'm being ridiculous.

The irony is, his dad was a serial cheater and I fully believe is addicted to porn (we've seen it all over his house - stuff I never even knew existed!). She put up with it for years and then finally divorced him. His brother is also way into porn. Geez...maybe there's a porn gene. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

turmoil,

All of these groups, especially the first one, is very well known and reputable. The good thing about 12 step programs is that they are tailor made for folks who have faith in God...that is the basis for the programs: that alone we are powerless to the demon of addiction, but with God all is possible and all can be forgiven. Your husband will be surrounded by folks who understand and share his problem and whose "dirty laundry" is just as soiled as his is. He will get accountability partners who care about him and help him remain strong when he is weak.

Please let me offer you this small ray of sunshine too....the first step, one your H has ALREADY taken is acknowledging the problem. That is HUGE, and a place that many porn addicts never reach. I have great hope for you....and I send you prayers and sunshine.

Also, the formost authority on sexual addiction is Patrick Carnes....his books "Out of the Shadows" and "Out of the Shadow of the Net" are must reads for you husband. He also has help on his site:

http://www.sexhelp.com/

Thanks, Star*fish. I copied down all the information from the websites and I'm just waiting to pass it on to him. Unfortunately, I haven't heard from him and that has me very discouraged. We only had that one phone call Friday night (I called him - apparently he wasn't even going to bother letting us know where he was staying) when he said he needed help and asked me to gather information.

My gut is telling me not to contact him - to let the contact and reaching out come from him. I don't want to force this information on him and take control of the situation - I want it to come from him. I'll support him through it, but I'm not going to drag him there.

Am I right in waiting for him to contact me, or should I bite the bullet and call? We have a child and he hasn't even called to talk to her. How can a parent not even want to talk to their own child? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Turmoil, please read "Every Heart Healed" by Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker. It is specifically written for wives whose husbands struggle with sexual sin. It's been a God-send for me.

Also, I hope you will be very truthful with H's mother when she does call you.

Best wishes,
PM

Well, he finally called last night and we talked for almost 2 hours. He still insists he's going to follow through on getting help.

I printed out a bunch of information I found on the websites Star*fish mentioned. I also contacted people with both of the support groups in our area and they wrote me back and even provided their phone numbers. One of them also gave me the email address of his wife who attends a support group for spouses going through this stuff. I'm going to email her and get a list of meetings for ME.

I was very proud of how I handled the conversation. I was firm on stating that I would not live this way any longer, but I didn't fall into the trap of telling him what he had to do about it. He kept slipping into the "just tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it" or "just tell me what you want me to say". I told him that time was over - he needs to decide for himself what he wants for his life and how he's going to accomplish it. I told him I'm done arguing and feeling bad about myself because of it. I also told him I would love to have him in my life, but I will survive either way. The choice is his.

I really like the idea of these support groups. The fact that he will be accountable to another person in the group I think will benefit both of us. He needs to be able to talk about his urges and temptations without embarrassment and fear of retribution. I need to be protected from feeling like crap and that I'll never be enough for him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

On another note, his mother has been surprisingly mum about everything, but my H is convinced she suspects both the porn and the infidelity. She's not asking because the answer would be too painful. Her first husband (my H's father) had both of the same issues. She has always remarked to everyone about how she succeeded in raising both of her sons to be complately different from their father. She already knows (though doesn't always accept & makes excuses for) that my H's brother also has the same 2 issues. We also just found out that my H's sister and her husband are also in marriage counceling because she found out he's been emailing an old flame. When it rains, it pours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If my MIL does call me and ask, I already told my H I'm not going to lie. But I no longer feel she's going to call.

We'll see my H on Thursday for an event our DD has and I'll be passing along all the things I printed out and the phone numbers. He'll need to take it from there. Send us positive thoughts!

Papermom: I looked for the book you mentioned on Amazon and didn't turn up anything. Where did you get yours? Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How about "Every Man's Battle" too.

turmoil: My H is a recovering porn addict and serial adulterer. He's been in SAA (sex addicts anonymous) for about four months now. I'm not sure what his porn sobriety is right now, but it's been over three years since d-day, and I'm as sure as I can possibly by that there have been no more OW.

The key is, he decided to get help for himself. Like any addiction, recovery starts at step One: where the addict recognizes the addiction has made their life unmanageable, that they are NOT in control of the addiction, and decide to turn it over to their Higher Power. For JABL, that was Jesus Christ. Even though he's only been in SAA for a few months, he was in IC for the first year of recovery, and continued to work both the Harley recovery plan and Dave Carder's Torn Asunder recovery plan (which is more helpful for those with addiction issues).

As for yourself, you can go to www.understandingsexaddiction.org and they have a confidential support group for codependent spouses/partners of sex and porn addicts. You may find some help there. Also, the other references made here are excellent. You might also want to check out www.iprodigals.com. I found their information very helpful, and they have a comprehensive list of resources.

<small>[ December 07, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Kat72 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong> How about "Every Man's Battle" too. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yikes - I just checked this one out on Amazon. A lot of negative reviews and comments. Does anyone here have any personal experience with this particular book?

To be honest, I don't believe any books that approach this from a biblical standpoint are going to cut it with him. I'd really like to find some titles that deal with the issue from a personal, character, family and marriage standpoint. More of a "look, this isn't working for you, your wife is going to leave you, you're neglecting important areas of your life, and you're out of control" type of book, lol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks!

Kat71 -

Thanks so much for sharing your story. Really stinks going through it, huh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

The link you gave to "understanding sex addiction" doesn't seem to be working. I also tried typing it into my address box, but it was still a no-go. Do you know if it still exists? I'm starved for personal stories of married couple's experiences with this and success stories.

Kudos to your H for attacking this problem. I wish you both the very best. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Turmoil, "Every Heart Healed" is very new, but it should be available. I'll look also. I got mine at Barnes & Noble, and it was the only one on the shelf.

Both it and "Every Man's Battle" are part of a series of books by the same authors. I've read most of them, as has my husband. They have made a huge difference in our marriage, but my husband was very willing. That's important.
PM

www.understandingsexualaddiction.org is the address you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I saw your post, and was going to recommend it as well, but Kat already had (albeit with a typo... silly Kat! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ).

I went through an H who was a sex addict as well. BIG on the porn crap. Ultimately, it ended our M, because he wasn't willing to accept that it was a problem.

I always knew the porn was an issue in our M, but I didn't really realize how much of one until after I found out about numerous A's of his. Silly me, tried my damnedest to fix the M, and did a fantastic job of it too, thanks to MB. The only problem? There wasn't anything more I could do. It was all up to him. His addiction got in the way of the MB principles working (just as Harley says it does).

"Out of the Shadows" by Patrick Carnes, as already suggested, IS THE BOOK you need to read. I borrowed one from my local library, so it was one less book I needed to buy (money is always an issue for me). Your H needs to read that book as well. It will speak volumes to both you and him.

I'm not sure if exposing his addiction is the way to go about healing, especially if he's already shown that he knows he has a problem. Then again, he could just be saying what you want to hear, in order to bide him more time, so that he can enjoy is addiction in "peace" (my H did that).

The sex/porn/love addiction site I gave you here is awesome. There are workshops for both you and your H that can be done online... and it's all free (last I knew.. I'll admit, I haven't used the site in almost 2 yrs now).

Take care,
Karen

Good grief - I still can't get to that darn site! Could someone else please see if it's working for them? It's the only site I'm having problems with - everything else is working, so it can't be my computer or ISP. Maybe it's getting a huge hit of traffic since it was posted on here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

papermom:
I just can't win today. I've searched for that book on Amazon, Borders, Barnes & Noble and even did an internet search - no luck. I'll check the library later in the week.

Topie25:
I'm so sorry that your marriage didn't make it. I also noticed that you lost one of your children - my heart goes out to you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I just tried the link as well, and it's not working. As I said, I haven't been to the site in a few years. I'm sorry about that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Hopefully it's only down short term.

I'm not so sorry my M didn't make it at this point in my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know I did all "I" could do, and I'm at peace with that.

As far as Andrew's death goes (he died in his sleep 4 yrs ago at almost 4 yrs of age, and no cause of death was ever determined), it's because of him, that I sought counselling, and eventually found MB, and removed his brothers from being near their father (part of the porn addiction he had/has was/is child porn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ... that's a whole other story in itself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). It took me these 4 yrs to come to terms with it... but I'm good now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I appreciate your acknowledgement. Thanks.

Karen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Topie25:
<strong> I
As far as Andrew's death goes (he died in his sleep 4 yrs ago at almost 4 yrs of age, and no cause of death was ever determined), it's because of him, that I sought counselling, and eventually found MB, and removed his brothers from being near their father
Karen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh God, how incredibly tragic <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I can think of no greater pain than losing a child (and I am not a parent yet). I am so sorry about this.

LM

Oops, Turmoil, I have given you the wrong title!

Gee, I wonder if you would have better luck looking for the book by its proper title? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It's actually entitled, "Every Heart Restored".

Sorry about that!
PM

I think I may be able to help you. I just finished reading “Every Man’s Battle” because of my own personal hell that I’ve been going through for the past few months. Let me explain.

First off, this is your posting thread, not mine, so my intent here is not to change the focus, just give you some background and possibly, some insight. I’m 33 yrs old, in the military and married for 11 years with 2 small children. I’ve been exposed to pornography for most of my life. It began with magazines and my dad had a secret stash of videos I found before I went off to college, so I swiped a few to take with me. I married 3 years later and I burned them all. I was “clean” for a while and then along came the Internet. I stuck to free sites so as not to leave a trail and I knew how to hide my tracks on the computer well.

What I didn’t know was that it eventually led to the “incident”. I was deployed at the time and got involved with one of my troops; we ended up having sex right before she left (I had to stay behind for a few more weeks). Now, 1 year later, she is claiming I raped her. I didn’t have any contact with her after it happened and this came as shock to me, I’m no rapist. I was apprehended 2 months ago and immediately shared everything with my wife. I’ve been re-assigned to another base in another state and my wife is back home with family. I was able to see them once for about a week and we worked things out, but the road is still long and hard. We’ve been talking and things are getting better.

Since my apprehension, I’ve been living in “billeting” (it’s like a hotel room) and I went right back to porn. Then I got the book. It completely changed my outlook on life. I began to realize the devastating effect it has had on my marriage for the past 11 years. I read the reviews on Amazon.com and yes, there are maybe 1 or 2 sexually charged stories to illustrate a point, but what I was most impressed with was that I’m a new Christian (this event has turned me back to God) and this book didn’t try to solve all your problems by simply throwing a bible at it (please don’t take offense, I don’t know how else to put it). Don’t get me wrong, placing your trust and faith in the Lord is a big part of it, but if you don’t know how to put your trust in God, the road is even longer.

The techniques I learned in the book have led to me being porn-free for the longest time in my adult life (albeit about a week). But for me, that’s significant. But it’s also extremely difficult. They talk about “bouncing your eyes” and “corralling your mind” and by starving yourself of sexual images; then, your wife becomes the sole focus of all your sexual energy and desires. But in our society, temptation is everywhere. Ask yourself; can your husband look away from the television for the 30 sec spot for the new line at Victoria’s Secret? Can he keep his eyes focused ahead of him when the lady to his right drops a pen and bends over to pick it up? These visual images stimulate the male brain and release a chemical much like drugs, alcohol or cigarettes. However, I have never in my life seen a public service announcement for the adverse affects of pornography. There’s no “frying pan and egg” stating “this your marriage… this is your marriage on porn”. So since no one is telling us it’s wrong (just like my dad with all his porn), we don’t feel like it’s a bad thing. The only way to quit is cold turkey. But you have you have to first realize its affects. I have, and it led to a one-night stand with my troop and possibly the utter destruction of my family.

Another way to look at this is like a beautiful river in the forest. When men are just boys, this river is pristine. After they are exposed to porn for the first time, they throw in some trash. Find the courage to buy their first magazine, in goes a little more garbage. Watch videos, here’s some bleach, dump it in. Surf the net, how about adding a little raw sewage. Have an affair, we’re talking pure crude oil and every toxic substance man can produce. You see, the river is now far from it once pristine glory. And there’s plenty of trash to toss in. But there’s hope; it can be cleaned. You need to do two things right away, first, learn how to clean it up and second stop throwing in more junk. Once you do that, it takes time, a lot of time, patience and lots of lots of hard work (did I mention time?). If you are patient and continually encouraging to your spouse, he will eventually produce for you a Garden of Eden where you both can live happily ever after.

If he’s unwilling, it may be because he doesn’t realize the full affects, he may just not know how to stop throwing garbage in his river or he may not know how to clean it up. My wife still has no idea of the battle I'm fighting. I just think she has plenty to deal with the affair. Spilling my guts and revealing my torrid past may be too much for her right now. But I'll save that for another posting...

I hope this did some good.