I need some advice. I started sharing my problems and story with a minister and this has turned into an ea. I have come to depend on this minister and can't seem to stop thinking and talking to him. It has turned into ea and is leading to a pa. My H and I are trying to save our M but I just don't trust him yet. I found out about my husband's 8 month affair on Easter Sunday of this year and have gone through all the stages of anger, depression, resentment, and loss of trust as you guys probably has. I have weekly bouts of crying. Now I believe my contact with the minister is getting in the way of our recovery. I just don't trust my husband anymore and this minister is so comforting and I feel I need his contact to make it through this. What are your advice as to how to handle this.

Stop seeing this minister immediately. Get a different counselor. We had another member who had the same thing happen, and it led to nothing but misery for her.

Don't try to bring the minister down. You will answer to God on this one.

Don't let it get to PA.

Let it go, find other options.

Revenge is NOT yours. Do NOT bring someone else down in your struggles

Evil for evil is not good. Read the concepts on MB. Do your best to hold onto your honesty and integrity.

Praying

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hi bbqrib,

I went back and read all your posts.

So,what is your plan now? I understand you want to work on the marriage but did your WH ever send a NC letter? Has it really ended after all these months with the OW? What became of those pictures he carried around?

You state that you don't trust your WH so I wonder just what has transpired since last May.Also,as I am SURE you already know,getting emotionally involved with a Minister is the WRONG decision.Read that line again.I know you feel attached to this person but I can GUARANTEE that if you continue to keep FEEDING this "relationship" with him,you will no doubt have much more pain and suffering to contend with.

Does this Minister know about how you feel? Does he have a family? You absolutely MUST stop seeing this Minister before you go completely under.Do you understand that? Seeking comfort from someone of the opposite sex right now is wrong.Wrong.Wrong.What do you mean it is leading into a PA????? Be specific.Has this man already been drawn in?

You need to take one step at a time here.Decide what your plan is.How will you handle it,how will you implement it.How will you protect yourself and what do want to accomplish for *yourself.What are your goals and don't say to be with this Minister.Wrong answer.

O

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Within the church counseling must never be between opposite sexes. There is a reason for this as you now are experiencing. Please stop immediately and seek out counsel from someone female within your church. Have you and the pastor discussed your feelings? If so, the church leaders must be notified! If this feelings are one sided, then I suggest you confess to the pastor with other's present and seek forgiveness. I know this is not easy and that he was filling EN's for you. But you would not have posted if you really wanted to continue this destructive path. Please confess and seek God's forgiveness on this. ARe you in IC? Are you and your H in MC? God bless you and I will pray for you.

That's everyone for your quick responses! I needed to hear this and really appreciate your honesty. To answer Octobergirl questions:
1) My H never wrote a NC letter because I was not aware of this site until after the fact. H has never told me where the OW lives and so I feel lost because of that and almost in the dark. But he slipped up and said it was someone he worked with and I started snooping from there. I believe I have the OW address but still have not seen her in person

2) My H says it is over but I can never be sure but based on his accounting for time, I really don't see how he would have time but that is my thinking prior to finding out about the A. So as far as that goes I can only believe is statement that he has NC with the OW to date.
He has a brother I believe is covering for him and has been in the past but this is just speculations because I never point blank asked him. Is it too late to confront him or is this inappropriate.

3) He tore up the pictures in front of me a few weeks after I told him I knew he still had them and if he wanted to continue the relationship all remembrances had to go. It still hurt that I had to make him tear them up because I feel the same way about how I found out about the affair it ended.

Right now we have had 3 sessions of MC and was very helpful although this counselor has advised us not to ask or speak of the A again. I'm sorry, but I am having a hard time with this one because H has never told me the full story of the affair and I don't need all the details. I just need to know what was going on that made him cross this line and maybe I can put it to rest.

Sometimes I feel like I don't love him anymore and other times I get so sad just thinking about life without him. He has changed somewhat in how he is treating me now but I can tell it is not natural for him and to watch him struggle with not doing the LBs that has been in our marriage for years again breaks my heart. I just think he feels the same way I do but can't say it like me.

This is all so sad and I don't know how much more I can stand with this recovery thing because all we do is tip-toe around certain topics and try to be nice to each other. I don't like living like this...it's just so phony and not right.

Is this what I can expect from my marriage from here on. Just being nice to other on a shallow level and never have the deep relationship I need and H deserves? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BBQ,

Definitely don't see this minister ever again. Change churches if you have to. I have been exactly where you are. H had an A, didn't want to talk about it. LB whenever I brought it up. I became too close to a co-worker I'd known for years and never been attracted to. EA. I *knew* better, and it still happened.

Expect it to be hard.
Expect to hurt.
Expect to become irritated at your H for his every little flaw.
This is all part of withdrawal.

Your M *can* become amazing. Mine is.
I know now that I can talk to my H about anything. We fight, rarely, over stupid stuff.
He treats me like an absolute queen.
He surpasses all my hopes and dreams of what an ideal H would be like.
I've learned to be a much better W.
I'm a stronger person.
I'm confident.

Had I continued to confide in my colleague, my H and I would not enjoy the marriage we have now. I truly can't find words to describe how dear he is and how happy I am.

More importantly, I would have cheated myself out of learning how to *calmly* and lovingly stand up for myself. I never would have learned to say "H, I need this in order to feel safe" or "H, I need this in order to heal and grow." I only would have learned how to run away and hide in another R.

Cease contact NOW with the minister.
Devote yourself completely to the M.
If your H won't join you in rebuilding a *good* M, you'll know you did what you could. You'll know you have the tools to be successful in a different R. You'll be a complete, strong, self-aware person.

BBQ -

A couple of things more.

My H never wrote a NC letter either because I hadn't found MB yet. You can recover without a NC letter. Sometimes NC letters are written and contact happens. The whole point of the NC letter is to demonstrate a change of heart; it's an ACTION that says "I want to rebuild my M; my M is more important than OP."


Your H is taking some ACTIONS that indicate he desires to rebuild the M - tearing up the pictures; accounting for all his time.

You're right, you need more in order to have what MB would call a good M. You need to know you can go to your H with questions and get honest answers. To you, it's important that you know who OW was. When he refuses to tell you, you feel like he's protecting OW and putting her protection ahead of your healing, am I right? Have you told H in so many words? What is his reaction?

It takes a LONG time to heal. Your H may need more time before he can talk to you about this. He may be hiding something or he may feel embarrassed and guilty. My H felt too guilty and embarrassed to be open (and not LB all over the place when I asked questions) for more than a year. That's a lot of the reason the EA was so attractive. It's hard to be the only one rebuilding and to be beaten down every step of the way.

Will your H read any books with you?
I found that reading a book is better than saying "I feel like..." because it's written by someone who doesn't know the two of you. Your H may feel attacked when you bring it up, but it's hard to take anything Harley writes as a personal attack, you know?
Plus Harley does such a good job of explaining NC and why it's important. He also does a good job of explaining radical honesty, which is lacking in your M right now.

Most people here recommend Surviving An Affair but I prefer Fall In Love, Stay In Love. My reasoning is that SAA dwells so much on the A, and the WS usually just wants to forget about it. They don't want their face rubbed in their mistakes. FIL, SIL, on the other hand, discusses ENs, LBs, POJA, Radical Honesty -- all the tools that any M can benefit from.

Oh Turtlehead...you write like you have been in my house for the last 8 months!! Thank you so much for your advice and insight. All that you said is exactly what I have been going through. I got real bad last night when I demanded to know where the OW lived. He said he was not under any circumstances going to tell me and to not go back to the gutter with my questions. I told him that I will be leaving in March because until I know I can't go on with this M. He began to tell me how much he loves me and he's not trying to protect the OW, but just doesn't want to hurt me anymore. I'd previously told him about the minister trying to be open and honest and now he uses it as a way to shut me up(saying you're not so squeaky clean yourself). I feel like a knife is permanently lodge in my heart because he is using this to shut me up about his affair. Not to mention the therapist we went to told us not to speak of the A again. My WS just loved that and uses this also to shut me down. I don't like him keeping secrets that only he knows and I don't, He knows everything about me, everything...and I have to know everything about his and this affair before I can move on. Not all the details but questions like...How did it start, did he initiate it or did the OW, What need was the OW meeting that I wasn't so that I can start. He doesn't want to read any books, he resents me coming to this site and says I am only getting confused by going here and should stop. I don't think he feels my pain at all and I can't seem to express it to where he gets it.

Thanks again for your post and everyone's help with this nightmare I am going through.

I used to be a strong, confident person. A good person, church goer and strong believer and this has really tested my faith and made me look at myself closer, whereas in the past it was all about H needs, children's needs and I never focused long enough to see what I needed and to ask for them.

I used to a better person and I know when I get through this I will be the best person I can be but right now I am just so sad and confused to focus correctly.

This too will pass

I got real bad last night when I demanded to know where the OW lived.

You need to read up on love busters.
Don't make any demands. Just tell him how you feel, that it's important to you to know where she lives, and why.

Come to think of it, why *do* you want to know where she lives? How is that going to help your M? Do you think your H is still involved with her?

He said he was not under any circumstances going to tell me and to not go back to the gutter with my questions.

I know this must have hurt. You can only tell him that it hurts you when he withholds information from you. Tell him that it feels like he's hiding things, and like he's got secrets. That your trust in him is undermined when he keeps secrets from you.

I told him that I will be leaving in March because until I know I can't go on with this M.

Read up on LBs again. This is a threat. You've got to quit doing this if you want him to feel safe with you.

Why March? Why not now?

He began to tell me how much he loves me and he's not trying to protect the OW, but just doesn't want to hurt me anymore.

This is a classic, and a difficult one to overcome. I cannot count how many times I tried to explain to my H that it isn't the *info* that hurts me, it's the deceit. Just keep telling him, over and over. Tell him you appreciate his desire to protect you, and that he can do that by being honest.

Now, whenever he DOES tell you anything, you absolutely no matter what MUST NOT lovebust!! I don't care how much it hurts or how pissed off you get - NO angry outbursts. NO sarcasm. Just tell him you know it must have been difficult for him to share that with you, and you appreciate his honesty more than you can express.

It's hard to tell if he's so clammed up because he's involved with her, because he's still getting through withdrawal or maybe his embarrassment is more important to him than your healing (that will probably change in time, BTW), or if you've made it unsafe for him to be honest because you LB.

What do you think?

I just don't know for sure, H strongly says the "it's over and he has not seen or spoke to OW since DDay but my gut says differently. I don't know why I said March but it was a threat and told him later I didn't mean it. We have a 17 yr old and she's one of the reasons I have not just left during this nightmare. I sometimes wonder whether that was the best decision initially to do because I kicked him out a number of times only to allow him back home and now I don't think I am serious about him leaving or me leaving. It was all such a shock and the feeling of losing a friend and soulmate kicked in I just couldn't stand for him to leave and neither could I. Here lately though I get these feeling of not caring one way or the other and worry if I am falling out of love with him. I just will be so glad when I can feel like I'm not on sinking sand again.