WARNING - LONG!

Hello everyone -

I am new here, and have been devouring all of the information and wisdom imparted on this board. Let me explain where I presently stand:

I am 31, my W is 36, we have been married 8 1/2 years, and dated for about 5 years before that (yes, if you do the math, when we first met I was a junior in high school, and she was a senior in college). No children as of yet.

As my handle implies, I travel a good deal for work, which hasn't been a problem until the last couple of years. We are both from Texas, got married there, and after a year or so of marriage, we decided to get her back into school to take some courses required to be able to sit for the MCAT. You see, she has had a dream of being a Podiatrist since her teens. I fully supported the plan, and worked hard to make up for the partial loss of her income due to school. After 2 years of schooling, she took her MCAT, and applied for Podiatry School. The problem was, there are only 7 schools in the entire country. So we had to pick up and move everything including my business (I am self-employed) to Philadelphia.

In Texas, I had established a decent customer base that I had to more or less walk away from. So to keep up the income, I had to start travelling even more. While in school, there was no chance for her to earn any income at all, and we had so many more expenses with books, insurance, and the like. The tuition was covered by student loans. I fully supported her in her endeavor, and have kept my "head down" constantly tying to support us and minimize our debt load. When I wasn't travelling, I would sometimes have 1-2 weeks at home. I would cook, clean, and do home improvements....oh, I forgot to say we bought a house that was somewhat of a fixer-upper, so there were a good many projects to do. The thought was that we could sell the house for a small profit after her 4 years were done.

During this time period, I grew tired of my line of work. My W and I agreed that after she starts practicing, I could either return to college, or find something else I would like to do. We also were planning on having children during a year of her residency, and I could be Mr. Mom for a while. I am a firm believer in having a parent in the home if possible. If she was bringing home the bacon, I could raise the children, at least for a while. After her first year or two, she would have a more flexible schedule that would allow us to trade off days.

She ended up landing a great surgical residency in Los Angeles (where I am now), but there was a catch. We received the offer in mid June, and she had to start July 1. All we had was a two week notice, and we had to pack the entire house up, and drive completely across the country. We put the house on the market on Tuesday, had a contract on Saturday, and were on the road the following Wednesday. I even drove the truck myself...

The property values out here were so outrageous, and the residency is only a year, so we decided to rent. We have many pets, so that was a challenge. We found a house - 1200 sq. ft. for $2200/mo. Wow... So between selling the house in Philly, and having our cost of living skyrocket, I find myself travelling more than ever. I have been here maybe 1/4 of the time we have lived in So. California. Again, I saw this as a temporary situation, and we could tough it out for a year like this....or so I thought.

I returned home from New York on Thanksgiving night, and we went out to have some Turkey, etc. at a restaurant. She then proceeds to tell me that she want's a divorce. Not a seperation, not counseling, just a divorce. HUH!?!?! Come again?!?!?! She stayed the night with me at home after hours of talking and crying, but the next evening after more talking, she said she had to leave. Her residency is very demanding and the talks were putting too much emotional strain on her.

She stayed at hotel - she wouldn't tell me which one, but I found out - for the next week, then came home to pack her things for a vaction that we had been planning to Hawaii w/her mother. Of course, by this point, it was understood that I shouldn't join her. She left after packing and more talking and crying to go back to the hotel.

She is now in Hawaii, while I remain here, alone, my head spinning. There is a gaping hole in the pit of my stomach, and I sleep little and eat less.

I found out that the hotel that she stayed at last week was *coincidentally* in the same suburb that a young, married, doctor lives who she works very closely with. I asked point blank a number of times, but she emphatically denies having an affair.

She attributes her unhappiness to my neglect, my insane mother, and as a result of my mother, my depression (I have been on Zoloft for about two years for anxiety/depression). She also is still very angry at me from when she found pornography on some burned CD rom's about a year and a half ago. I have plenty of issues from my childhood that I have just ignored, but I told her that I am willing to seek counseling for my issues, and would like her to join me in MC.

She says it is too late. If I would have sought counseling on my own, it would be different. But now I am just doing it to get her back, and it therefore means less, and I will just revert back to my old ways after a year or two.

She kept asking me, "Why don't you just let me go?" "Why do you want me to stay with you and be miserable?" I repeat to her over and over that I could really use her support through IC, and we need MC. She seems to think I need to leave, get divorced from her, fix myself first, and then we would re-examine things. She kept saying, "People re-marry the ex-spouses all the time." "If we can't live without each other, we can get re-married."

So here I am. Alone, in a new city, no friends or family to talk to, wondering what the he77 happened to my once-together life.

Wow....


So to those here that have walked the road that I am staring down, what should I do? Should I move out and get an apartment here? Should I move back to Texas where we still own a house that is presently vacant? Should I stay and keep trying to talk her into going to counseling, or should I cut off all contact and make her miss me? Should I answer the phone if she calls from Hawaii?

We are Christians, but because of our schedules, have not regularly attended church in years. I am going tomorrow morning to try out one here. I so want to make thing right that I even told her I would give up my business, stop travelling, and get a JOB (I haven't had a boss in over 10 years) here locally if thats what it will take.

I feel so helpless.....

Thanks for listening to me. I really needed to tell someone my problems.


TM

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Sorry to tell you that this has "affair" written all over it. I would guess that she is have one with the married doctor. All the signs are there, including blaming you, suddenly moving out, unwilling to work on marriage, and on and on.

Check out Plan A here. You can read the link in my signature line. That is the starting point. Also you need to do some investigating, and try to get more information.

Don't leave, stay where you are. Let her move. Also at some point if you get evidence, you will need to expose to the doctor's wife.

Stick with us and we will help you through this.

Thanks, believer! I just got His Needs, Her Needs, and LoveBusters. I am reading everything I can get my hands on. I hope you are wrong about the affair, but I will be doing some sleuthing to try and get evidence.

This whole experience is like my eyes were suddenly opened after having such "tunnel-vision" striving to provide financially for her. I know I have not met many of her EN's.

TM

Don't blame yourself. You have been busy helping her with her school.

I hate to say that she is having an affair, but I think so. Usually when there are marital problems, it is gradual, and people are willing to go to a counselor.

When there is an affair, it is very suddenly the end of the marriage for the WS. They usually just say it is over, and want no counseling. So do some checking.

Cell phone records usually give some results. Also you can put a hidden recorder on your home phone. I'm sure others will chime in here with their thoughts.

What do I do until I know for sure? I can't use Plan A because I have no proof that an A really has occurred? Should I even answer the phone when she calls?

TM

You can use Plan A even if you don't know for sure. It will help any marriage.

Try to stay calm, and develop a plan. I know it is very hard. Right now you won't be able to do anything except work on yourself.

Weekends are real slow, but I'm sure some of the experts will chime in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TravellinMan:
What do I do until I know for sure? I can't use Plan A because I have no proof that an A really has occurred? Should I even answer the phone when she calls?

TM</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What can you do at this moment? I would suggest that you consider the following:

1. Control yourself from getting angry at anything she tells you. Instead listen to her and acknowledge her comments without defending yourself in any way, shape or form even if what she is saying is untrue. Getting yourself sucked in to an argument will not only not help but will further hurt your chances of marital reconciliation. So shake your head in agreement, bite your tongue and after she finishes, politely leave.

2. DON'T say to her that you love her and that you've changed. This will only tell her that you are just scared of losing her and that is all lies. Nobody wants a fearful, needy and clingy person as a mate who will say anything for his/her benefit alone.

3. Keep any conversation with her light and strictly in related to non-confrontational issues such as her schooling, the animals, etc.

You should always demonstrate to her a confident humility that shows her that you can deal with this situation no matter what the outcome of the marriage is and that the ball is on her side of the court.

TMCM

Travellin Man...Your situation has many similarities to mine yet I have been dealing with it since May. A bit of background: 6 months after I married my WH, he went after his dream career of firefighting, spend countless weekends, hours training and volunteering as means to get into the tough business. This took a LOT of time away from things we used to do together, including athletics, dining out, movies, hangin with friends. I kept encouraging WH to continue to pursue his dream but I could sense he was discontent that it wasn't leading anywhere other than time away from me and the common activities/social ties we enjoyed. While WH worked on his dreams, my business thrived and I trained for Ironman...both dreams of mine but also very time consuming. I believe personal unhappiness about our diminishing time together, his isolation from friends, and stress at work lead my WH to slip up, engage in an affair, and then doubt our marriage. He abruptly left me on May 22nd without giving me an explanation or even giving us a worthy chance...I was shocked, devastated, confused, rejected, angry and sad all at the same time. WH still hasn't given me any answers and I have now been on this rollercoaster for 7 months.

Unfortunately, it does sound like your wife is having an affair, whether it be emotional or physical. Hang in there...it is a hard road ahead but there are many success stories on this board that has kept me going. The Harley books help although it hasn't changed the face of my situation...my WH has iniated the divorce process now. Do read up on Plan A, Plan B...try to get some answers, some may recommend trying to expose the affair. I am not sure if I'd move quite yet as the distance would probably faciliate more stress between the two of you. I think communication is key right now. Do confide in friends and family though...perhaps go back and visit or talk via phone.

Keep your chin up...things are bound to get better.

-K

Me: 28 yo FW
Him: 31 yo WH
Married: 3.5 years, together 5
His Affair: Started fall 03 and continues
D-Day: May 22, 2004; he immediately left me.
Plan A thru Oct, Plan B thru Nov, Plan D, Divorce, has begun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

***Posted on JFO, but it was recommended that I post here - more traffic****

Well, I just finished a 3+ hour conversation with her, and I can now say that my D-Day is TODAY. She admitted to being in love with the Dr., and they are just "so compatible". Unlike me- who is dysfunctional, crazy, and too depressed... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It seems that they have not become physical, but it is heading in that direction. I asked her what she thought about the potential for destroying the Dr's family, and she thought that he wouldn't let it go that far. In other words, she is willing to go that far, only he can be the one to stop it.

I am considering contacting the OM's wife. Since it is just a EA, do you think I should wait until I have more hard evidence (i.e. copies of e-mails or something) before contacting her?

It is absolutely amazing how the patterns of infidelity are so predictable. She thinks that she is different, and that she has found the perfect man. Maybe, one day, the fog will lift.

If you would have asked me a week and a half ago if I thought my wife could possibly be "in love" with somebody else, I would have thought you were insane. Sure, I didn't think everything was peaches and cream, but in love with someone else? Nah, not my W. I have felt very secure in our marriage from day 1, and trusted her implicitly.

Just goes to show that we are all very similar, all very flawed humans....


TM

<small>[ December 05, 2004, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: TravellinMan ]</small>

Absolutely contact the OM's W not only because she has a right to know what her H is doing behind her back and decide whether or not she wants to remain married to him, but to make him realize that he could lose a lot more than what he could gain by continuing with the affair with your WW. Most married OM's usually dump the WW as soon as their BW find out about the affair. In fact, exposure is an importan component of Plan A when a WS is unwilling to end the affair.

TMCM

Well I am reading His Needs, Her Needs; I have LoveBusters, but I am going out today to buy SAA. I was hoping that I wasn't going to need that book......yeah, I know....denial.

TM

I just saw your post on JFO and responded there only to find out that my friend the coffee man and I have the same opinion. Ahhh..great minds.

Anyway, go for it, tell OM wife and watch the OM run for cover to keep his life in order.

And don't forget - your wife will be furious if you let OM's wife know. She will till you all kinds of crazy things like there is no hope now, if you hadn't done that, blah, blah, blah.

But she will get over it. They all do.

I am planning on visiting the OM's wife tomorrow...it will be interesting.

Right now, I am going through an angry cycle. I am wondering if I should return my WW's call and tell her that she needs to look into other living arrangements when she returns from vacation. I am so mad/hurt at her for telling me that she is "in love" with the OM, whom she has known a total of 5 months. IN LOVE?

Sorry, just venting...

TM

TM,
Telling the OM's W about the EA should do the trick. Why? You said you're in Ca. Right? (So am I) The Dr will freak when his wife threatens divorce which will wipe him out. She'll get half the assets. If the assets are mainly in their house she'll probably get more. She'll get alimony until she dies or remarries whichever occurrs first. Kids will get child support.

My guess is that the greedy bugger will realize that his net worth is in danger.

If it's only been 5 weeks and it truely has remained an EA then he'll drop her bc he's not in love with her eventhough she's in love with him.

If he shows any sign of being in love, then you can almost assume that the A is also a PA.

The old addage that "Men can't fall in love until they've had sex with a woman" is true.

Keep the converse statement in mind as well "Women won't have sex until they fall in love with the man."

In general it takes the EA about 4-6 months before it becomes a PA.

Believer said others should chime in on how to collect evidence so here goes:

You can look at cell records.

The voice recorder is the ticket. Though be advised that you may here your lovely bride sayinng:

- horrible things about you

-wonderful things about the OM

-that she loves him

-that she enjoys having sex with him

Also be aware that in the lovely state of Ca. where no fault divorce is king, it is illegal to record your spouses and OM's voices without their expressed consent.

So throw me in jail for trying to find out if I was insane or whether my wife was lying to me.

I made the mistake of confronting my wife after the first conversation that proved an EA. I should hvae waited awhile for proof of a PA. Easier said than done I know.

Find a phone jack that is hidden by a piece of furniture.

Be prepared for OM's W to not believe you. Denial is king with spouses who are told "out of the blue." Take whatever evidence you have,

Also take Shirley Glass' definition of an EA. An EA has these three characteristics.

-secrecy

-intimacy (in the general sense)

-sexual chemistry

Good luck. We're here for you.

Mac