Haven't posted in a while.

Things here have been up and down.

Yesterday, WH had eye surgery to have a cataract removed. I went with him. He did okay, but had a horrible headache.

Then, yesterday afternoon, I went to the store to pick up some pain medication for him. I checked his work cell before I left. 3 calls.

When I got home, later in the evening, I checked again. 5 calls. Only one number on the call log showed.

I confronted him with this, asked if he had called OW. He said no. He told who he had called. Said he hadn't contacted OW in a while. I told him I simply wanted the truth. That the truth could not hurt me more than his lies did.

He simply stated that he had not called OW. Then he started to get some stuff together to leave.

I asked him why he was leaving. Was it easier for him to leave than tell me the truth? He told me I was just trying to get him to "say stuff". He said he didn't know what to do to make me believe him.

Long story short, he didn't leave. I tried to explain to him my feelings on this. I don't know what else to do. He was not defensive or angry.

Should I believe him? I know, I have to make that decision myself.

I guess I need some support. I haven't posted on here for a while. This was my only support net.

Thanks. K

^bump^

feel like personna non grata....K

K
hi sorry that things are still so tough right now and he's not helping. one of the last threads I
was reading about your situation in Nov that you had, had enough H never moved out
or did he come back
Is he there to work on M and if so how long has he had NC
You are the only one who can gage this situation but, If your suppost to be trying then give him a little time and when you feel there is a problem
think first before you jump into a discussion that could become angry or upsetting.
I'm not really sure were you are in recovery or plan ? So I'm just saying if hes in NC and trying and told you he has not just watch for now and be as good as you can if he is in withdrawl and just had surgery so just take a slow response position
hope it helps good luck

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. I don't know what else to do. He was not defensive or angry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why should he be ? This has always worked for him before, it has no reason to fail him now.

You're manipulated by him, period.

You know, you see it, you feel it, you breathe it, you deny it.

K....you know I'm always pulling for you, but is this REALLY THE MARRIAGE YOU WANT???? The constant worry, stress, afraid to leave the house for 5 minutes ? If you can tell me you don't think about it every minute, and that the first thing you do when you open your eyes in the morning is check that cell phone, I'll keep telling you to Plan A...otherwise.... I want you to really really look at K...and what K deserves.

So call back that # using his cell.....the caller called 8 times with no message? Look at him while you do this and say that. You want to put your doubt into his mind. If he gets angry or defensive it will show then and you will have your answer. It w/b best for him to then leave.

If it isn't her, then the question to the caller w/b, have you called several times? Why didn't you leave a msg? Either way you find out.

If he uses the lame excuse 'well I just had surgery' as a reason to stay, then you'd better let him know this carehome requires their residents to follow the POJA and have RH as a prerequisite. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Thanks for your reply Confused....

WH has stayed home. He says he has had NC for a "while". Don't really know how long that is.

I've been being my best self. WH is SLOWLY reading Basic Concepts. When he is done, he has agreed to talk to SH again. Right now there is no plan.

I thought there should be more "making amends" and that sort of thing from him. But everything is just usual kind of stuff.

WH's angry outburst, and disrespectful judgements are very offensive to me. He doesn't see it that way. He thinks that everything that comes up he should just blow up, or "keep it boiling beneath the surface". Everything is so black and white to him, except everything to do with his A.

He doesn't want me to ask him any questions about his A. He doesn't want to talk about anything that is important to me.

SH said to let HIM be WH's councelor....to leave that to him. I shouldn't try to do it. I agree.

WH just keeps saying he doesn't know what to do to prove anything to me. I don't know if he's just putting me off, or if he really doesn't get it.

I would like to say that I appreciate everyone on this board. I'm not such a wimp a it may seem. And sometimes, I guess I do whine a bit.

But I really do need some support.

K

I thank you all for your replies.

Yes, I do think I am manipulated by WH. This does need to stop.

Also, Orchid, there were 3 call on the log when I left. All of these he made in front of me. When I got home, the call timer showed 5 calls. Only 1 number showed on the call log. He COULD have made 2 calls to the same number....but.....

I'm making another appointment with SH for both of us on Friday. I plan to tell WH that he needs to read the basic concepts (I will read them to him if he can't because of his eye). He must do this in order for us to go on.

Yes, you are right BIJ, this is all I think about when I'm awake. No, this is not the marriage I want.

What I would like to know, is What the he!! is wrong with me?

K

What is wrong? Nothing. You are human. Fighting for yourself, your M and your family. You are angry that a stranger has taken over your H's body, heart and mind. You want desparately what belongs to you. He took from you something that he had no right to do.

That's what makes marriage more than a piece of paper. When a spouse steps outside the bounds of M (affair, abuse, alcoholism, drugs, etc.), they rob their spouse and family of what they have not right to, their family's happiness and welfare. For that a lot of pent up anger resides and often shows up in recovery.

Please read the 5 stages of grieiving in my sig link. It may help. You will find your feelings are part of the healing process and in time your H will need to help you get closure and he will need to get closure also. There are many ways to do so. The important thing is to do it with each other and for each other.

take care,
L.

Hello K..

Good to see you back, although I'm sorry to hear that things are going so poorly.

Want the cliff notes version? H wants to come back on his terms..and you are too afraid of losing him to enforce that this will not be tolerated.

He lied to get back in the house..you have been aware of this for some time. His entire recovery is fraudulent..you are accepting this every day and hping that the crumbs will sustain you until you get angry enough to toss him out in an indignant huff...which you will follow with "well, but I was angry..maybe I was too rash".

What is in order, in my opinion? Is that K decides what K wants in her life based on what she can control..and this does not include Hs actions. Right now..it is accept him as is..or leave him. Will being outed in a real genuine plan B shock him into change? Maybe, maybe not..but if you do it..the change you are making is for K to have some peace and be able to move on..H is secondary if even that much of a priority.

How are you feeling? I'd imagine the chaos upstairs must be tremendous..it always is for me when I am faced with a decision I don't want to make.

Noodle

Noodle.....

This is exactly why I need to keep posting here. You all have a non-biased view of the situation. One I cannot seem to remove myself from enough to see.

The "chaos upstairs" is unbelieveable.

Part, in truth, is the fact that I just cannot stand the thought of OW taking my place in WH's life. This I can see clearly.

Some of it is the fact that I still think of WH as H. And I know he is not. He says he is a shell. I think that is partly true....due to the choices that HE made.

Many times during every day I go thru anger, sadness, fear, and indecision. Or maybe FEAR of indecision.

I feel like my life is a mess. Where do I start on this mess? Me? I can't see me clearly. Some parts of this are very unreal, yet feel very real.

WS's probably do not care about their BS's mess...I mean life. Not until they can see themselves clearly.

My brain feels like cotton. My heart feels like it's in a vice. I want to lay down on the floor and cry until I AM the puddle of tears. And still I feel no one cares.

I must make myself stop this.....it does nothing for me. Only self pity that I can see. Not good.

I must find ME.

K

Just for an update.....

WH has agreed to talk to SH with me. We have an appointment on Friday morning.

I am searching for me still. Trying not to get sick again. I think the stress is doing me in.

I am wondering if I should get on A-D's now. The doctor I work for said he thinks I should. I was a mess at work yesterday.

Thanks for all of your replies. I do really appreciate them.

K

Hi k,

I was wondering how you were doing and here you are!

Mention about the gun stuff to SH ok? I'll bet that SH will try to get H to agree to some conditions about it.

I felt bad when I read that you feel like a person non grata. I don't post because I can't be helpful, but I do care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How about this? I'll drop in and say hi. That way you'll know that I can't help, but I'm rooting for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Hi LovingB!

Thanks for dropping in and saying hi! I do appreciate it, and your support.

I did mention the gun incidents to SH when I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure he will have some kind of conditions to add with that.

I also did an experiment with WH's work cell this morning. I called my cell twice in a row. The number showed only once on the call log. So, if WH called any number twice in a row, it would only show up once. This makes me feel a little better.

Also, the fact that he now brings both of his cell phones in the house and is no longer locking them in his car helps.

I just don't think he "gets" the fact that his life should be laid open to me. He has kept much to himself for many years.

I think SH will really help us. This will be our first MC together since D-Day (except for the one we saw a few times - not pro-marriage).

Thanks, again, your support brightens my day.

K

Hi K,

I'm so sorry that I haven't took the time to give you a response but things here are abit stressy.
(not anything concerning our marriage)
Our house is full of workers and it's a true mess.

So I can only answer very spontaniously. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I think that Steve will be able to give you both the best advise for your situation. I tend to think that when someone is that "lucky" to be able to get coaching with SH, I will try not to give my input.

It's a difficult situation when the WS is still "fogged up" and it can be very touchy.

Other than that, I am feeling with you. I can feel the pain and confussion you are going through. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> And still you are on the "lucky" side to be able to get SH coaching.

I myself was on my own. I had "Absolutely no one" with who I was able to talk to. I was frightened to death and I believed that my life had just ended.

I will never again "forget" those feelings but I would love to give you all the encouragement I can.
You can get through with this and your marriage can "survive & grow". It is worth the effort!!!
It is worth every single tear you cry, so please don't "give up".

I cryed "puddles" and I think that I must of filled a ocean of tears. But now, almost 4 years later.............I am happy. The tears I cry now are mostly because I am so "happy"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just yesterday I "grabbed my hubby" and I gave him a big smooch!!! He looked at me and he was so surprised!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
He asked me "What was that for?"
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I "giggled" and I asked him: Is this "reality"? Is our life now really this happy or am I dreaming???

My husband pinched me and he said: It's REALITY!!!! (do you feel it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

4 years ago our life was a complete mess. My husband was in the middle of his affair. He and OW made plans to leave us.
Everything was "set up" and they were ready to "run!"
The last Xmas together with me was planned.
This was the first Xmas ever that we ate fish.
This was the first Xmas that I didn't get a present.
Everything was different. It was terrible............

But after alot of effort and alot of "fog" we've made it!!

K, let SH lead you and don't you dare to even think about "Giving up!!"

Btw: great suggestion, getting meds!!! It'll help you! Do whatever you can to stay calm!
Take care of yourself and when I have more time, I'll send you a email.

hugs
bb

Thanks bb....

You are always very encouraging.

I just talked to WH. He was talking about taking some friends scuba diving on our boat. He can't dive (his eye), and neither can I (my ear), so I told him I would go along, unless he just wants to have a day with the guys.

He said he doesn't know if it will work out or not - friends may not be able to go, or he may be "pi$$ed off" then.

I said "Why would you be pi$$ed off?"

WH: "This SH may try to push me. It may pi$$ me off."

I told him that SH didn't push him the last time, and I don't think he will do that this time either.

He just has a bad attitude about everything right now. Work, problems with his eye, us.

I try not to look for bad things everywhere, they find you anyway. I am looking forward to beginning to really "work" on our R.

Sometimes I am too impatient. I try very hard not to show it. Especially to WH.

Thanks for your reply...bb. Hope your house construction is going to turn into something lovely! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K

K, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. It's difficult to figure out what's going on with your H through what you write. Once my H stopped NC I could see a difference in him. Those lying eyes began to disappear. It was still hard as HE** because of his deep withdrawal. Maybe it is just my personality, but after a while I just stopped checking e-mails, etc. I figured there are so many ways to contact undetected. I figured if he's stupid enough to contact her I'll find out and then it would be over.

I highly recommend you consider an AD. Two weeks into my ordeal I knew I was into major depression. I'm in the mental health field and know the signs. I called my doctor and asked her what she thought because the depression was caused by circumstances. Her reply was that if it takes the edge off and helps me to cope with the crisis I should get on an AD. I got on Lexapro and was shocked at how quickly the Lexapro kicked in. It helped me to do what I needed to do at the time. I still was in deep pain, but the constant crying, anxiety, and difficulty functioning decreased. Please consider getting on one. I care about you also K. CV

Hi CV....

Thanks for your reply. I know everyone here does care. I feel that sometimes people might get frustrated because I haven't jumped in and done things exactly the way they have done....that worked for them.

My WH is very stubborn, and if pushed at all, he will be gone. He has always been that way.

After 32 years, I do know that about him. And some of the "fog" things he says to me are things he does not think of (consciously) as manipulation...and yet they still are.

I have the hardest time trying to "read" him. He has looked me straight in the eye and lied to me so much that I really can't tell what is true, and what is not.

The only time I can tell when he was in contact with OW is that is attitude toward me was more affectionate and talkative. His cake eating attitude, no doubt.

My stress level has risen a great deal since WH moved back home. It is now at an all time high. I keep getting colds. I am just experiencing my second herpes outbreak (since the very first one - D Day ....THANKS, OW). I know this is all due to stress.

I'm a nurse, and the doctor I work for could see what a mess I was emotionally yesterday. He told me that I should think about going on Anti-D's again. I was on them for a short time at first - I couldn't quit shaking. Had a hard time functioning at work.

Next week is WH's Christmas Party - at 3:00 in a bowling alley (OF ALL THINGS). I have taken the afternoon off. I'm going, even though WH says none of the other wives will be there. I told him I would feel more comfortable if I went. He said okay.

3 years ago, at WH's Christmas party, his boss called me at home (I had just had a hysterectomy), and asked if WH was home. I said no, he's supposed to be with you. I then called his cell phone about 10 times in an hour and a half. He never answered. He was with OW - I think for the first time. He told me he had too much to drink, and was at a restaurant drinking coffee. He was really mad that his boss had called me at home.

That's why I am going. I don't care how long it lasts. I'm going.

Anyway, sorry this is so long. Just pouring a lot of things I've been thinking about.

I do appreciate all your support. And I also really care about the people here. This has been a life-line to me.

Thanks, K

K, it's bedtime so I'll try to write more tomorrow. Concerning ADs. Not every AD fits every person. For example Wellbutrin has the least amount of sexual side effects but is not indicated for anxiety. Lexapro is one of the cleanest(fewest symptoms), and as I told you worked wonders for me. I think I took one 20 mg. pill a day. I honestly couldn't believe the difference in me. It did cause some sexual dysfunction, but I'm not sorry I started out with that AD. I needed to think clearer pronto. I then changed to a mix of Wellbutrin and a lower dose of Lexapro. I finally stopped taking the Lexapro a few days ago because my life is more stable now.

I'm not trying to push ADs here, but talk to that doctor. If your intense depressive symptoms have been going on for more than several weeks than give yourself a break. You might find that you have the will to get unstuck, meaning your path might become clearer. God Bless! CV

K,

I am worried about you. Your posts are becoming H centric to an extreme. H will or will not do this..H thinks this way..

You are losing your ability to trust your own judgement.

It is affecting your ability to work.

You are having full body reactions [shaking] and inability to think clearly.

You are no D day newbi..this is really beginning to damage you, yourself in a lasting way..yet you are unable to act.

Please seek IC for yourself..maybe work on fixing K and worry less about H [who I have a difficult time referring to w/out swearing at this point].

He is eating you alive and you are letting him..please take action, if in no other way..than to find counsel.

Noodle