Minor miracle happened this morning.

Started with the "usual" news story about gay marriage, with the news covering how proponents in CA are trying 2 get marriage defined as a contract/union between 2 people, not just between a man and a woman. Nothing new there.

But this time, instead of my W reacting with some negative remark about how "nobody should get married", she said "I actually agree with that idea." There was more on the 2be (an ad or a news spot, I don't remember) about "being in love" and she commented about how she realizes lately that marriage is more about commitment and responsibility than it is about "romantic love," which doesn't last forever anyway. I responded by quoting Pitman's:

"Marriage is not supposed to make you happy. It’s supposed to make you married, and once you are safely and totally married then you have a structure of security and support from which you are free to make yourself happy, rather than wasting your adulthood looking for structure."

I didn't have the whole quote in my head, but I got the gist of it across. Know what she said? "I actually would agree with that statement."

...What am I, nuts??? That wasn't a small miracle, it was a BIG one!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
-ol' 2long

2Long,
Could you tell me where to find that quote? Does it come from a book by Pitman? Very interested.

I am very happy for your minor miracle. Maybe she is waking up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Katie

2L,

Good to hear a bit of sunshine is coming down your way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We like to see you smiling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Aloha,
L.

Venus was finally below the horizon this morning when I went out to get the fishwrap, er, paper. Coincidink?

Strange specimens, those aliens. Hard to predict what they'll say next. Miracle? Not likely. Revelation? Stay 2uned..........

WAT

Personally, I think this is a major miracle.

Thing of it is it probably didn't happen suddenly.

She has probably been slowly "shifting" for some time - and it finally all clicked.

"shift happens"!

All:

Thanks for the replies.

WAT. I really agree with you, in the sense that I've always felt that "miracles" are just nifty events that we don't fully understand. More of a revelation, as you said.

But a major one, and one that has been coming for a while. Is it "here" 2 stay? I have no idea, but I'm certainly not going 2 stifle it if I have my druthers (and I do, I just checked my druther drawer, and they're there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

There have been other things for a while now. Like:

*her angry outbursts are fewer and farther between. It's COOL 2 see her happy once in a while.

*we're making a better and better team all the time in putting our house 2gether, getting ready for Christmas, and getting ready for our D's wedding in March.

*she suggested that I spend about $5K on a "hobby toy" of mine this past weekend. Even though it's my own money, she held nothing but resentment for that hobby up through D-day. I set it aside for a whole year after D-day, but have picked it up in SERIOUS moderation the past 2ple years. Initially, I was worried that this might have been a message 2 "do what you want, because I am, and if you're distracted, you won't notice". But I don't think so anymore.

We've never gotten an official NC agreement, but I'm betting I won't need one. And since I'm "obsessing" far less than ever before now, I listen better.

-ol' 2long

Marriage may not be "supposed to make you happy", however it is supposed to make you loved.

If one follows Maslow's motivation theory, (self-actualization) then one cannot go on to become happy unless the need to be loved is met. The structure of marriage would meet the first two needs (hopefully) 1. physiological needs 2. safety. However if need 3. love, is not met then one could not go on to the final needs 4. 'esteem & 5. self-actualization, which would presumably bring total happiness.

I am not married, however my life is very structured but cannot really find total happiness because my need to be loved has not been met, so I am in the same boat as a married couple who has not figured out how to love one another.

But I get that big strides have been made here, 2long.

(day 6 of not smoking, and think I might be a bit argumentive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

P.S. Pittman's "Private Lies" is one of the infidelity books I most liked.

<small>[ December 07, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

2long,

Even if your WW reverts back to some old ways,that was an in depth realization on her part for the here and now.When I read your post I actually thought,"Whoa!"

And what,prey tell, is this "hobby toy"?

O

<small>[ December 07, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

I agree with Sue - shift happens. Could be at the pace of tectonic shift, but shift indeed.

My hair didn't fall out overnight. But one morning, looking in the mirror - I have to do that to shave - I decided to "embrace" my fate and get it all cut real short. Easier to put on sunscreen that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Miracle? No.

Shift? Yes - and finally a revelation. The shift took years, but the revelation came in a flash.

BTW - Pittman should be required reading for all here.

WAT

Yep I agree WAT.

"Private Lies" and "The One" by W.Harley.

Just J told me to read "The One" and I am so happy I did.

Weaver,

Is "The One" a new Harley book?

weaver:

I was going 2 start a thread about ENs, suggesting that there is no such thing as an emotional "need", but rather that they should be called "emotional wants", because we're each responsible for our own happiness. But it's getting in2 semantics really. I would agree with most of what you said, with the minor exception that I don't think any of us would get M'd if we didn't feel loved first. My W's "revelation" on this score was that the deep caring love that Harley talks about that builds over time (what I consider unconditional love) is expressed in the willingness 2 truly be in a committed relationship, accepting all the responsibility that that entails (and the true liberation it provides!). Without reading her mind, mind you, I think I could "tell" that she may have finally seen the difference between the romantic attraction she felt for OM and the enduring care she's gotten from me - even when we've been angry with one another.

It may be only a spark, but it's one in the right direction.

-ol' 2long
P.S. OctG: It's as big and fat a computer-controlled astronomical telescope I can fit in2 a rather confined space! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I usually build my own, but none that I have would fit the space, and I don't have the time 2 build another one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>she may have finally seen the difference between the romantic attraction she felt for OM and the enduring care she's gotten from me</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the main goals of Plan A.

Sometimes not seen for many years.

Should be foremost in the mind of every BS.

WAT

<small>[ December 07, 2004, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

2long, I hope it is true for you.
Congrats! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It used to be called "Freeloaders, Renters and Buyers" I think, but was renamed.

And "buyers" would definately be what 2long is referring to as unconditional, lifelong care one would provide to their spouse.

This also is the kind of love Maslow was referring to. Not a "feeling of love" but the actual commitment of love, or the unconditional love you speak of 2long.

Hi 2long,
It is soooooooooo good to read about improvements. Thanks for letting us know.

I was going 2 start a thread about ENs, suggesting that there is no such thing as an emotional "need", but rather that they should be called "emotional wants", because we're each responsible for our own happiness. But it's getting in2 semantics really.

I have seen people talk, and talk about it, but I do think it is mostly semantics. Dr Harley coined some terms to describe what he discovered when he researched how to repair marriages - I believe (from personal experiance) that his recommendations (meet needs, spend time together, avoid LB's) work.


I would agree with most of what you said, with the minor exception that I don't think any of us would get M'd if we didn't feel loved first.

I thought your W did it that way. After all, she never wanted to get married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


My W's "revelation" on this score was that the deep caring love that Harley talks about that builds over time (what I consider unconditional love) is expressed in the willingness 2 truly be in a committed relationship, accepting all the responsibility that that entails (and the true liberation it provides!). Without reading her mind, mind you, I think I could "tell" that she may have finally seen the difference between the romantic attraction she felt for OM and the enduring care she's gotten from me - even when we've been angry with one another.

You write well, I believe your ideas are sound. I also found that doing my own improvements was about all I could do. My W did respond over time. She may have even done better if her H could implement improvements faster. I believe that given time to work on it, the relationship will ALMOST always improve if one of the two is willing to change and improve first.

It may be only a spark, but it's one in the right direction.

Throw a can of gas on it - a spark is all it takes. How about a 50 Gal drum?

Call the refinery, see what you can get for 5K.


P.S. OctG: It's as big and fat a computer-controlled astronomical telescope I can fit in2 a rather confined space! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I usually build my own, but none that I have would fit the space, and I don't have the time 2 build another one.

Fit in confined space -
Does it need to be really light too?
Are you taking a trip we don't know about? Or did you just get a compact car?

Make sure she is not doing this on the theory that : "If I let him do what he wants, then, I can do what I want."

Ah, sorry, but I always try to look at all the sides.

SS

2long, can I talk to Weaver for a sec on your thread?
I'll take that as a yes.

Weaver,
This tells me a lot.
(day 6 of not smoking, and think I might be a bit argumentive.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I couldn't shake the feeling that you still needed a prayer or two. Makes a lot more sense now - I hope you make it.

SS

<small>[ December 07, 2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

CSue,

Did you see my response to you about the book? Just realized I didn't direct it to you, sorry.

Weaver, yes I just did! Thank you.

I have heard of the Renters, Freeloaders, etc...Thanks, CSue

2long,

I enjoy your humor, strength, and wisdom on these boards. I've been amazed at your steadfastness. It is *so good* to see you posting about something upbeat in your life!

I would love to have seen the look on your face when she made those comments. I bet you were struck dumb (another miracle? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) - were you?