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So, just tell her she is free to come and get her clothes and some things for our son? Not give her everything on the list straight away?
give her some things she has requested...otherwise you two are locked in a battle over material stuff.....
the stuff you hold out on has no power to make her see the consequances of her actions...
you are handing her loaded weapons to use against you...
as long as she can focus on how controlling you are over holding on to stuff....the longer it keeps you two focused off the REAL issues....
her actions are hurtful to her , you, and the family...
she will and does have to face that at some time...or perhaps stay lost forever...(no garuntees...)
you are supposed to position yourself to be MORE attractive that all these shells of OP
you are supposed to position yourself out of the range of fire...so that her rants and raves fall of deaf ears...because the 'acts' she blames you of...have no basis....
speak your pain of her involving OP in your life...softly and clearly....
speak your pain of the fear of her teaching your son that dads and fathers are replacable...for that is what she will teach him with exposure...and how that fear haunts you at night...
speak your hope that you hope she is well...that you worry about her....
do not rise to the bait of her bullcrap...of..
'i dont want to spend anytime with you', 'i dont want to spend xmas with you' - do I keep persisting on this? I dont make a big deal when she says no..
invite her lovingly...
consider having a gathering in your home with your son and some friends that you two used to socialize with...
gather your resources and friends together for support...
fill your home with love and music...
you must be upbeat when you talk to her.
you should consider ending the conversations first...
good hearing from you...I gotta run...
find some interest and drop hints you are doing it..
get her attention...
buy a new aftershave...or dig up an old one that you used to wear that she likes...
smell and memories are deeply deeply linked...
tell her a funny story you heard
or remembered from the past...
you gotta instill hope and belief in her to change....
invite her casually and when she refuses GO ANYWAYS....
ARK
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Ark, you have been an enormous help, I thankyou for that. I am seeing my son tomorrow night, so I will let her know about coming to get her things from her house. I will state quietly and nicely, that at this point in time, she can only take what she needs - both for herself and our son. I will also state nicely, that I would prefer to gather the things for her and bring them to her. I again, TXT her and told her I was going to the beach this afternoon, and if she and our son wished to come, and maybe grab some lunch etc she would be more than welcome. I ended the TXT with 'let me know'. But again, she did not reply and I have not heard from her today. The fact that she did not reply to such a simple offer, really makes me angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Confused5: <strong> The fact that she did not reply to such a simple offer, really makes me angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats because you are not doing and asking, expecting nothing, you "expect" her to want to go. Your not at the point of doing things selflessly. Giving and not getting anything back is a very hard thing to do, Im trying everyday myself, but you have to figure it out somehow. Heres something to read, Im not a very religious person, but it was worth reading to me, hope were allowed to post this http://www.familyministries.com/Reconciling_husbands.htm
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if she has already mentioned what she wants.. gather them up nicely for her and bring them to her.... that at this point in time, she can only take what she needs you can't say that...did you see Steve Martin in THE JERk.. Picture her standing on the porch saying all I need are these clothes... this lamp... this bottle of dish-soap.. and nothing else.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> don't state what you would rather like...just do it...bring some things to her... but kindly and when she says you didn't bring me this or that... say... oooh I forgot...I will get them to ya.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> your way is a power struggle.... confused5 be honest....would you want to spend time with you right now... all the emotional drama the pain she runs from you because you are the living example of her chaos... you must show her glimpses of you NOT being this emotionally distraught person...(which you are and which you are entitled to feel like...but she CAN'T handle you that way... when you go to pick up son.... bring her a small non-romantic token... bring her and son a silly cherry slurpy....or something she likes like that... and then gather your son and your joy and bounce away from her... each interaction you want to leave her a little curious... whys he in such a good mood whys he whistling. consider telling her I will son back at blank time..and then I gotta scoot ...meeting up with some friend later... (if you were female I would say add the famous pepper band flirty hair flip here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) And WHO goes to the beach on december 12th anyways...you southerners/westcoasters are NUTS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) now are you getting it... **seriously confused note that I post hard to BS because we can only control ourselves... ark
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Her main point, is that she wants to come here to pack and collect her things. I want to be able to do it for her, and bring it to her ... Half the things she wants, she doesnt need as yet. I do not have a problem with her getting what she NEEDS - clothes etc
I at least expected some reply to my message, even if it was just a 'no'. She does not even have the decency (sorry I am getting a little angry) to allow my son to call me before he goes to bed. I have not spoken to him, for the last 2 days, simply because she doesnt let him call me, or she doesnt think to call me.
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I really want us to work on this marriage. I have put my wedding ring back on. If she notices when I pick up our son, and says something. How do I reply?
Also, re: xmas, I was going to buy her favorite chocolates (which I do every year - it is a tradition), and maybe a ring (nothing overly expensive). I thought about wrapping them, and when I see my son xmas morning, just giving them to her as I left. That way she can open it when I am not around. As to the card that accompanies the gifts, should I right a love poem on it - nothing too mushy just something that expresses part of my feelings?
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This morning, my wife and I were TXT regarding the xmas presents for our son. She wants me to bring them to her. I said I will share them evenly, to which she replied:
'i cant afford to buy him anymore, pls let me give them to him'.
I then replied to her:
'did u know that this xmas is probably going to be our first apart in 5 years? As a married couple no less. Probably the one xmas that would mean most to us'.
Now reading all that I have read, I was quite conscious of what I did and didnt say. It wasnt a plead, but maybe more something to plant a seed there. Anyway, she didnt respond to that. She is obviously still trying to deny any feelings, and not get herself involved.
Thoughts on how to play it from here?
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Confused5: <strong> This morning, my wife and I were TXT regarding the xmas presents for our son. She wants me to bring them to her. I said I will share them evenly, to which she replied: 'i cant afford to buy him anymore, pls let me give them to him'. ....Thoughts on how to play it from here? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She wants you to get the presents, give them to her and let her give them to your son as if they are from her? I'm gonna let you answer before I continue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> L.
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Yes, probably <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I think she wants some of the presents, so she can put them under the tree at her parents house. Whether she will write on there, or imply to our son (he is only 3), that they are from her, or from both of us ... I dont know. I will make sure I am there early on xmas morning when he opens them. At least that way he can see WE are giving them to him. I am having him xmas afternoon, so I will have some other presents under the tree, and I have already offered my W the chance to spend xmas afternoon with us also, but she has declined (how unusual!) Orchid ... what do you think about my other comment re our first xmas together as a married couple? What makes a W decide to leave the married after only 9 months!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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Well, I did as suggested and took some of the things she asked to over to her parents house tonight, when I dropped our son off. Didn't argue with her, just said OK, packed them up and dropped them off (i also included her favorite soft toy, which I bought her some 2 - 3 years ago, which was a nice touch - got a good reaction out of her to). I also briefly stated that I am working on our marriage, and soon she will being to notice the changes (which she didnt really respond to). Also, found out a little more info tonight, when I dropped my son off. Seemed the WW had breakfast with this new OM on Saturday morning for about 4 - 5hrs, then went to the zoo with him and our son on Sunday. How I found out? Well, she bought it up. She said: WW: Did our son tell you we went to the zoo on Sunday? Me: No, who went there? WW: Me and our son Me: Just you two? WW: My friend also came Me: Which friend? xxx? WW: No, I met him through my mom Me: What his name? WW: *sigh* Me: Your not going to tell me his name? WW: xxxx, he is from the UK. Me: What is he like, is he a good friend? WW: No, he goes back soon Me: When? WW: Ummm, Wednesday I think Me: Ahhh, OK It all clicked into place when I heard this, all these phone calls and TXT at all times of the day and night, and it is to this UK guy. I dont know if I even believe her that he is going back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Argggg, now my mind is pondering <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <small>[ December 13, 2004, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Confused5 ]</small>
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Today, I felt in a loving mood (for some reason). I guess I was trying to pick moments of yesterday that I could take away as a positive sign.
I sent my wife a simple bunch of flowers with a short card attached and had them sent to her parents house. After receiving them she sent me a TXT saying:
'The flowers are nice, thankyou. But completely unneccesary'
I replied to her saying:
'What do you mean by, unneccesary'
To which she did not respond. How do others take this?
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C,
May I ask what your W did to cause you to send her flowers? From what I read, your W hasn't been seen in days.
Is it possible to others that the flowers were for the WS? That would confuse most people esp the WS. Ok, plan A says be nice and show YOUR changes but it doesn't say to reward the WS, does it?
This may make you angry but it was not said to do so. I know you want to see something positive but right now your WS will go from OM to OM to OM just out of spite to you. The more you reward her for it, the more she may do it.
Be nice but not too sweet. Make her see your changes or if you are already pretty good, let her miss you. At least go visit your son and show your affection to your son in front of your in-laws and the WS.
The WS has the gall to take your child around another man. Ask your in-laws if they are encouraging such behavior and if yes, why?
L.
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I know it probably was not the right thing to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But it felt right at the time, and I wanted to show her a little something, and that I am missing her. I never called her or asked if she got it, and I never put anything on the card like 'hurry home' etc.
Why did I send them? Well, I told her I still had hope for our marriage. I didnt say that I loved her, but I did say that I will work on it, and she will see. She was OK about hearing that, she didnt object or say that she didnt want to hear it etc. Part of me sending the flowers, was to show her I had hope, but not in a clingy kind of way. Communication between the two of us, has been better from these last few days.
It does concern me, that she took our son to the zoo with this newly-found OM though. When she told me, I didnt react, but continue my happy mood, playing with my son. Saying that I had to go, as I was heading out to the movies that night etc.
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I understand your need to show her that you still want t/b married to her but you want your W right? I am sure you don't want a WS in your home. That's the difference. That's enough on this from me.
Were are your in-laws in this mess? Are they pro A?
L.
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L. no be as hard on me as you want. It probably was not the right decision, and no I definately do not want a WS in my home. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Were are your in-laws in this mess? Are they pro A? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heh, funny you should ask that. They were initially on my side in this situation, and then this UK guy who my W is now seeing, was introduced to her by her mother! Can you believe that?!?! It seems none of her family have morales.
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all right here are your 2x4's
get ready...
giving her a favorite stuffed animal from the past.....
brilliant...
just offering it to her....
no comment
just a smile ....a "you're welcome" perfect..think any OP out there knows her favorite stuffed animal....??
not a chance...
no points for saying this...
I also briefly stated that I am working on our marriage, and soon she will being to notice the changes (which she didnt really respond to).
zip it....words are cheap...you words my words her words....words are cheap because it is actions that define who we are.....
quit saying things like that......
'The flowers are nice, thankyou. But completely unneccesary'
I replied to her saying:
'What do you mean by, unneccesary'
To which she did not respond. How do others take this?
I don't have problem with the flowers persay..but overt displays in plan a with a alien usually become weapons...that's why the response and reaction to the stuffed animal was so much better...
but when she says...unneccesary...you ONLY respond to the THANKYOU..and say
YOU ARE WELCOME...
you were ready to power struggle her stupid unneccesary comment....
ready \
willing and able..
and ironically she was smart enough to bow out on that one.....
and orchid makes a good point about condoning exposure of son to OP..
you better be clear on how you feel about that
you better be clear on how that affects you....
don't reward that crap EVER
confused I am pulling for you....
ark
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> giving her a favorite stuffed animal from the past..... brilliant... just offering it to her.... no comment just a smile ....a "you're welcome" perfect..think any OP out there knows her favorite stuffed animal....?? not a chance... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that did go down well, she said 'ohhhh, its maurice' (i am surprised she remembered the name). I said I thought she might like this before I have it to her. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> zip it....words are cheap...you words my words her words....words are cheap because it is actions that define who we are..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but when she says...unneccesary...you ONLY respond to the THANKYOU..and say YOU ARE WELCOME... you were ready to power struggle her stupid unneccesary comment.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I didnt know she was saying unneccesary as in you shouldn't because of how I have treated you. Or unneccesary as in why did you get them, i dont you we were not getting back together. Not sure - probably the latter. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and orchid makes a good point about condoning exposure of son to OP.. you better be clear on how you feel about that you better be clear on how that affects you.... don't reward that crap EVER </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I could not really say anything after the event. She bought it up out of the blue, I didnt even know they did anything. Why would she do that? To get a reaction out of me (which she did not by the way). And how should I react, after the fact? Should I say 'i am not comfortable with that' - because she may take it, as who the hell cares what you think, this is my time with our son and what i do, does not affect you. She continually says 'a friend' I dont know why she doesnt have the courage to state what it really is....
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you say...you know I am NOT OK with my son being exposed to all types of strange men...
and while we are seperated i expect him only to be exposed to people that he knows....
and you need to pursue this legally as well with the lawyers...
so if you say nothing...who will the next "friend" be that spends the day with your son...
ark
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