Suzet,

I noticed in your thread to ArjDad that you mentioned your recovery not beginning until you received treatment for your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and depression. Since my fww has the same issues, and I can't be alone in that, I was wondering if you could answer some questions related to your situation? My wife goes to see her family doc tomorrow to get back on medication.

1) What impact do you feel your OCD had on the affair happening?

2) In what ways did the OCD limit your recovery?

3) What treatment did you receive/are you receiving for this and how long did it take for you to respond to the treatment?

Hurting, before I answer your questions, I want to give you some important background:

My past psychiatric problems are a result of past internal AND external factors.

Internal factors - sexual and physical abuse in childhood, low self-esteem, tendency to become anxious etc.
External factor - genetic disorder (chemical imbalance) on both sides of my family (OCD with associated depression).

I received therapy (IC) for the internal issues, but I'm using medication chronically for the external issues. I'm using the A/D's for 20 months now.

As a result from my childhood and a father who wasn't really emotionally available, I had certain personal weaknesses & vulnerabilities and OM unconsciously filled some of those needs (in some ways I viewed him as a father figure). OM and my involvement with him was the "catalyst" that on the end forced me to go into IC and explore & resolve all my issues around childhood. If I look back I can see God's grace & protection in this whole process. For instance, just after my feelings and involvement towards OM had escalated to a level where I was so anxious and emotionally confused that I couldn't handle it anymore, I went to a counselor and started to explore my childhood issues. A week after this, my H discovered one of OM's e-mails (d-day) and the inappropriateness of the friendship. Until today, I strongly believe that this happening was the hand of God that brought everything out in the open and protected me & my H from more damaging and further involvement with OM.

Before the friendship progressed to beginning stages of EA, I became obsessed with OM and his attention¦ We mostly correspond on e-mail and I would start to check my e-mail many times a day to see if I received any e-mails or responses from him. Also, once I received an e-mail from him, I would read it over and over. This also had an influence on my work performance since I could only send and receive e-mails on my computer at work. If I was away from work I would repeat his words constantly in my mind. Sometimes, after I have sent an e-mail or said something specific to him, I would obsess about it for very long and wondered if I had said soemthing wrong or inappropriate. Or I would read something he wrote and then obsess about it and wondered what he really meant by his words. I believe this obsession also contributed to the feelings I've developed for him and prevented me from stopping the involvement after the friendship became inappropriate and developed to beginning stages of EA. Of course this was my own wrong choice and I don't use the OCD or my personal issues from childhood as an excuse for my behaviour, but since you've asked, I want to explain how I think the OCD contributed.

After the friendship became inappropriate, OM's flirting on e-mail was very subtle (almost jokingly) and instead of ignoring it and let it go, I would seek some meaning behind and obsess about it too. By this time I thought about him 24/7. The addiction was very strong and I became more and more obsessed. It was like a downward spiral and I felt trapped in my own feelings. I didn't know how to get out of it, I felt very weak and it was during this time I started to became more and more depressed and anxious.

Although I've never physically acted on my feelings towards OM, the obsession escalated to a level where I've also started to fantasize about OM sexually and otherwise¦ This was a big struggle and religious problem to me and I felt very guilty and ˜dirty" because of this. According to Scripture, I committed "adultery in the heart".

The sinful thoughts and fantasies about OM continued after I started NC and it get worse. I was the most obsessed with these thoughts while I was in the midst of the fog and withdrawal and in a deep depression. While I know at the time that it was the best to have NC with OM, I still missed him and his friendship and couldn't stop thinking about him. While I was moving further into depression, my thoughts and feelings started to became heavier. I couldn't discuss this with my H, I know it would cause him too much pain and tried to deal with this on my own. At the time I KNOW my thoughts was wrong and sinful, I was feeling very guilty towards God and my dear H, but at the time it felt as if I couldn't control my thoughts¦ It was like a big vicious cycle - I would have the thoughts and fantasies, feel very guilty and anxious afterwards and then confessed towards God and prayed, but only shortly after this I would have these same thoughts again and so the cycle continued.

Also, because of the OCD, the guilt and feelings I experienced was way out of control and out of proportion. I was involved in ˜only" beginning stage of EA but all the feelings I experienced (guilt, emotional attachment to OM, romantic feelings etc.) was similar to those of a WS who was involved in a heavy, full-blown EA/PA.

I received therapy and was put on A/D's (Cipramil - also called Celexa in certain countries). This medication is very effective and work well for OCD, depression and anxiety. After I started using the medication, I responded almost immediately. I could start to feel the effect within 2 days, but it took 2 weeks before the full effect kicked in. The depression was gone, but it took longer for the OCD and anxiety to disappear. Slowly but surely I gained control over my thoughts and feelings again and as I've said before, for the first time I was on my way to ˜real" recovery. A few months later I was still in withdrawal and missing OM, but without having adulterous and obsessive thoughts and feelings about him anymore. OM still popped up in my mind from time to time, but I was able to remove him from my mind immediately and instead focus on my H or something religious/spiritual. I indeed find great strength in my religion and I certainly know if it wasn't for God's help and my H's love and support, I wouldn't be where I am today in my personal recovery.

Sorry so long! I hope this post will be of help to have better insight into your W.

Blessings,
Suzet

Thank you very much. This does give me some valuable insight for my wife. Have you noticed any side effects from the Celexa? My wife is going to the doctor tomorrow and had a lot of problems with Effexor.

I experienced minimum side effects. I only experienced the following side effect during the first 4 months of use:

1) A slight change in my sleeping pattern (I waked up early in the morning and struggled to sleep again) and
2) A slight decrease in my libido - nothing serious.

These side affects completely disappeared after 4 months and after 20 months of use I still don't have any problems at all. Celexa/Cipramil is a very ˜clean" drug and safe to use on the long term.

Thanks for this thread.

Suzet:

My wife had a two-year A. The early part was EA and then it turned PA.

I am not sure when it became PA, my wife does not remember when physical contact occurred. D-day was six months ago, last CONTACT three months. Wife states that CONTACT past D-day was not romantic. She describes it as a serious stern tone to finish off the affair and to appease OM who wanted WW to leave the marriage. Wife claims her withdrawal did not get worse with the phone calls (Hmmm).

Where do you see her withdrawal? Two days ago she admitted she still thinks about OM occasionally.

Suzet -

How you feel about the A being the hand of God pushing you to seek help for your emotional issues from long ago is so very similar to my situation. (except I am the BS) Although I am in such pain right now, and my WW may end up leaving me, the experience has opened my eyes to the fact that I have buried many emotional scars from my rather timultuous childhood. I am seeking counseling so I can dig up all the "junk" that I have buried so long. I knew I needed counseling a long time ago, but always put it off thinking, "Counseling is very expensive, I'll just wait until we are more financially stable, and then I'll go." What I didn't realize is the buried hurt was affecting me in so many different areas. Like you, I am prone to anxiety and depression. I started on Zoloft a couple years ago, and it has helped some, but I can never be healed until I address my past. And the A has been the impetus to get my rear in a counselor's office.

I still hold out hope for the future, but even if my WW follows through with the D, at least I have finally overcome the inertia, and started on the right track to health.

I wish God could have gotten my attention with something far less painful, but then he probably has been trying to get my attention for years. I guess I need to pay more attention. I also wanted to say that much of the A is my fault. If I was doing my duty as a Christian husband - the leader of the household - then my WW and I would have been in church, and the likelihood of the A occurring would have been less.


TM

Stanley,

It appears your W hasn't experience intense withdrawal. This can be an indication of ongoing contact, but as I've said, withdrawal is not always the norm and some FWS's don't experience any withdrawal at all. You know your W the best and possibly her personality, "sensitivity level" etc. is of such a nature that she won't experience any serious withdrawal from the OM. But the fact that she still thinks about OM occasionally tells me she does experience some withdrawal and possibly still have some lingering feelings for him. This will fade with time.

TravellinMan,

Thanks for posting and sharing. Although I am FWS, I can emphasize with many of the things you've said. I want to comment on something you said:

It seems you blame yourself for your W's A. This is not fair! The choice of a WS to have an A is NEVER the fault of the BS. Yes, the circumstances in the M and lack of actions on your part may have contributed to make her vulnerable to the attention of another man and to have an A, but it's certainly not your fault that the A happened! Your W is a grown ADULT who knows right from wrong. Although you must be the leader of the household, this doesn't make you responsible or accountable for her own wrong choices. You are leader of the household as her husband and life partner...NOT as her parent.

Look at it this way: To have an A is not a solution to unfulfilled EN's; problems in a M; a spouse who doesn't go to church; doesn't act as a leader of the household or whatever. Your W was suppose to talk to you about her unhappiness in the M and the things that bothered her about you. If she felt unhappy about something, it was her responsibility to talk to you about it and/or to seek professional help with you, but instead, she chose to remain silent and react on the attention of another man. Please don't take the blame for something which belongs to your W! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Thanks, Suzet. This thread appears to be useful for a lot of folks.

My fww is less than three weeks post NC (as far as I know, in these situations where trust has been obliterated, you just have to go on instinct). I can tell that she is coming out of withdrawal just by her behaviour. She is acting nearly normal with me now. I am certain she still thinks about OM from time to time and it will take a long time for that to completely go away. However, most of her thoughts of that type are reserved for me once again and I think that is a very definite step in the right direction.

The A is a cold hard slap from the hand of God to cause us both to deal with life issues that could have crippled us for a very long time. I believe that with proper meds for her and counseling for us both, this will be a turning point in our lives that we will be thankful for in years to come.

Hi, All,

I've noticed that when I look back on any series of events (the good or bad perception is relevent only to where you are in the series at the time), God had already given me several "hints" that I missed or ignored before He gave me the "kick in the rear" that started the needed change of course....

Oh, I think God uses whatever means necessary to get through to us. I had a book on tape several years ago when I was doing a lot of driving for work by Bill Graham called 'How to Listen to God'. The whole premise of the book is that God is constantly trying to communicate with us and that he would prefer to do it in a positive manner, but will do it in whatever manner necessary to get the message through.

The challenge is to lead the sort of life and be the sort of person that God can reach through blessings. Obviously, I have yet to cultivate those skills as I believe God has used this situation to hit my fww and I over the head and force a course correction of large magnitude..

HH: in our saner moments, H and I have openly agreed this is the case for us...

Now, I just hope he will begin to show more interest in rebuilding than in 'putting it behind.'

In all fairness, he has been approaching the rebuild in his own way: more attention, affection, recognition, etc - and I am remiss to not acknowledge it. My own desires are for serious introspection, relationship work and heavily symbolic acts.... It is so hard to curb my impatience and to allow him to inch forward...

People here help a lot. But then, you've noticed that!

I find it impossible to belive that God condones affairs in any manner.

I do believe that God allows us all to be in positions that can/will lead us to our own personal growth. I belive that God will only allow us to be in difficult situations if we CAN handle them, not that we will all the time.

So no, God dosn't make affairs happen or even allow them to happen. God allows us all *FREE WILL*, and then loves and forgives us our sins as long as we are repentant.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greergan:
<strong> I find it impossible to belive that God condones affairs in any manner.

I do believe that God allows us all to be in positions that can/will lead us to our own personal growth. I belive that God will only allow us to be in difficult situations if we CAN handle them, not that we will all the time.

So no, God dosn't make affairs happen or even allow them to happen. God allows us all *FREE WILL*, and then loves and forgives us our sins as long as we are repentant. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this 100%. Well said! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley –
It appears your W hasn’t experience intense withdrawal… This can be an indication of ongoing contact, but as I’ve said, withdrawal is not always the norm and some FWS’s don’t experience any withdrawal at all. You know your W the best and possibly her personality, ‘sensitivity level’ etc. is of such a nature that she won’t experience any serious withdrawal from the OM. But the fact that she still thinks about OM occasionally tells me she does experience some withdrawal and possibly still have some lingering feelings for him. This will fade with time.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmm----- Let’s see:

After D-day she was actually hypersexual for about 3-4 weeks. Then she lost her libido and became depressed. She used to talk to me about wanting an open relationship. She expressed that she wanted to stay married tome very badly and that she loved me; however at the same time she missed the excitement and the thrill of the affair. At one point she wanted me to accept an open marriage so she could engage OM. Many times I thought she was kidding me, but in retrospect I think she was serious and this was probably FOG at its best. She mentioned how high and euphoric she was during the affair and how every encounter was viewed as an adventure. After D-day she admitted she missed the phone conversations, ect.


I don’t think there is any more contact with OM My WIFE knows that if she cheats again the marriage is over. I discussed this with JL who advised me to trust my wife. If she is doing something behind my back I will know sooner or later. So I elect to trust her. If anything happens then I have my answer.

Right now she acts differently and she admits that an open relationship is a stupid concept that does not work even when the participants are highly motivated to do so. She seems happier and always denies any withdrawal, other that occasional flashbacks. In any event I think six months is not enough to get over a two year relationship.

The other thing that I find that is different (than with other WWs). She always acts in a loving manner with me. I can feel her love, she is very affectionate (even during the peak of withdrawal).

<small>[ December 09, 2004, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greergan:
<strong> I find it impossible to belive that God condones affairs in any manner.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed, but he often turns what one party meant for harm to good for both parties.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
I do believe that God allows us all to be in positions that can/will lead us to our own personal growth. I belive that God will only allow us to be in difficult situations if we CAN handle them, not that we will all the time.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's almost uncanny how this works. All through Plan A and recovery, right when I was near the edge of sanity, a ray of hope from ww would come through. I think this was God at work.

I would argue that rays of hope from WS are a result of WS using their free will to do what God would prefer. This is made possible by BS using their free will to do what God would prefer.

So when all parties involved are doing "the right thing" then everyone wins which is God's will for us.

And I hear ya HH, the edge of sanity...it is nice to have a break from there. Personally I hope I/you/we all have come as close to the edge as is required.

<small>[ December 09, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: greergan ]</small>

I think we are talking semantics here. Yes, I agree completely that we have free will, and God allows us to exercise the same. When we do as he would have us do, he is pleased, when we don't he is saddened.

I feel as though he puts situations in our path to encourage us to go the direction we should, when we fail to respond, the situations increase in intensity.

At any rate, I feel assured that when God sees that my fww and I are beginning to heal our relationship, he is pleased that what he has brought together will likely be staying together, and that is God at work in my mind.

Yes, I hope that we have both been as close to the edge as necessary. I am enjoying some moments of closeness with my fww that are the best we've ever experienced...of course the pain still lingers, but time will heal those wounds.