Well, some of you know my story, most dont, but, anyway, I wanted to say thank you for all the support I was given while here.

After the initial "Oh my God" wore off of being by myself etc., I really started to reflect on our R. There were many character flaws in my W that I guess I looked past, and as Ive grown in the last 6 weeks or so, I realized that my W is not the type of person I would want to spend the rest of my life with, and she is not willing to see it, or do anything about it, I cant change that. Maybe someday shell realize her faults and do something about it, maybe. I told her last night that there were quite a few things that she has done over the years that I was uncomfortable with, and when I expressed them to her, she totally disregarded my opinions, lots of times, I dealt with it like anyone who is not a man would, I did nothing. Well, she wanted me to be a man, so here I am, I told her I wanted to rectify some of those things that I didnt feel right about, of course that turned into "your just doing this to f**k me", I told her it didnt matter, but no, that wasnt why, I need to do these things so I can feel better.

Long story short, she asked if I really wanted her out of my life when she was leaving, I told her she already made that decision for me, goodbye.

Ill probably still lurk here for awhile, but, I wont need to post for myself. Thanks everyone for the advice given, it really helped me in times of my deep depression.

Gadget,

I would encourage you not to let this end so ambiguously. I think you should sit down with pen and paper (or keyboard and monitor) and write out the things you would need to see addressed in order to stay with the marriage. Don't mention or focus on specific things she has done in the past, no one can take back yesterday. Rather, think about the changes you would need to see in her in order for you to commit to the M. Then, list the things you would be willing to work on yourself if you saw an honest effort from her.

I think it would be good for her to see your concerns in a format that she could read and analyze without you there for immediate discussion; it couldn't hurt you either to get that out in a written format. I would deliver it to her in a way so that you won't be standing there when she reads it and she will have time to consider it without you present.

Then, if there is no positive response, go your separate ways. Is that asking too much?

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: Hurting Hoosier ]</small>

Sorry to hear that Steve.

I do wish though you hold off the D itself for around 12 months, because its hard to pick up the pieces after.

I realise that right now you couldn't care less, perhaps with justification, but ending a M should be based on more then 'being a man' Steve.
Yes you were the conflict avoider in the M, well so are lots of people. That can change if you are willing.
I certainly understand that you dont want back the old M, so make a new one where this does not happen.

You are probably going to have wait awhile re the Divorce so why not give it time, be open to a new M if you loose nothing but a bit of time. THEN make the decision to end the M, if thats then what you want, in the cool light of day as a new confident non conflict avoiding Man!

Though it sounds as if you have put the wind up her sails alright!!

Thank you for the replies, unfortunately, I have written down and verbally told W what I would need from her, she thinks though, that the reason she left is all my fault, of course, so she sees no need for her to change, thinks I am crazy for even mentioning the idea that she has problems.

AW - If I could hold off on a D I would, but, we were commonlaw married about 6 years ago, we didnt have the money for marriage like we wanted, so we exchanged rings and said our vows to each other in private, we did plan on the big show sometime later, so, there is no D involved here.

Now, I want to get out some of the things I mentioned in my original post, this is not to put her in a bad light, but I think it will anyway, probably myself also for not sticking up for what I thought was right. These are some of the things she does, and it will not be a "complete" list.

1. Shoplifting - small things like lipstick, other makeup, shell hide it under other things in the cart, paper ads, heavy objects that stay in the cart etc...

2. Example, a guy she met offered to give her 50 bales of hay for her horses and he said she could pay him at the end of the week, never saw him again. Asked her repeated if she paid him, to no avail.

3. 2 Christmas's ago, she stole her grandmothers credit card, ran it up and bailed, also stole my sisters and did the same, I found out when my sister came to me asking questions.

4. Tells alot of little lies to alot of people, mostly for her to stay out of some sort of trouble.

5. Stole my money out of the bank about a week ago and told me the teller "messed up" somehow, then told me when I asked about it that she needed it for bills, didnt matter when I told her that was to pay MY bills.

6. Totally irresponsable about bills, and when I would pay them she would flip because I did something without her knowing.

7. Skipped out on alot of landlords before me owing tons of money

8. We just bought a new car, downpayment was due on the side as an additional payment besides the car payment that came out of our checking, she hasnt paid one cent of that, its now over $600 that she hasnt paid for that, but car payment is being taken automatically, she said that they cant come take the car so so what.

9. Linked to #8 but, we used my car as trade-in, which was the car in my name, we also have a truck in her name, guess what, she has the new car thats in her name, and the truck is still sitting here, but now with no plates on it because she took them, so I walk everywhere now.

10. She has no regard for anyone but herself, even though everything Ive listed so far has been somehow my fault.

Thats the short list, and this is the second time she has left and lived with another man and said nothing has happened, I just found out from her that she has been lying the last 1.5 years about the last time, and I told her over and over and over that I knew somethign happened and to just tell me so we could move on, she never did.

I think she has serious character flaws and if she will steal from her grandmother, my sister and myself, thats not the person I want in my life, she has no ill feelings about doing these things either, at least from her response when I told her that her grandmother deserved to know the truth, also, I told her GM when she left the last time, and when she came back she told her GM that I had lied because I was mad at her, thats one of the things I want to clear up, that it did happen, but mostly that I didnt lie, I have felt so bad about those types of things for awhile now, dont know why I couldnt say anything before, but there ya go, lets the 2x4's fly.

gadge t:

No 2 x 4 here guy.

Your W seems to have issues and problems that Go WAAAY beyond what a MBing site are meant to address.

Sadly, with this much baggage its doubtful that she is going to change (or at least any time soon) as she seems to "think" that these types of behavior are OK or somehow acceptable.
[at least if SHE'S the one doing them]

Very disturbing how they mostly have to deal with some type of Dishonesty.

However, Don't forget that this site is just as much about getting "personal" recovery as recovering a M.
You GO & do what you need to do to save/heal yourself .
That is what's MOST important in the Long Run.
Take care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks TR - Thats what I thought to, thing is, I dont remember her being like this when we met, I know about the whole fog thing when your first in love and that is my only explanation, wish I had been stronger when I needed to be, maybe things would be different, oh well, not dwelling on that, point is im strong enough now to realize I dont want this, I thought maybe Id try and get her to see something needed changed now, oh well, my mistake, live and learn, thanks for the support.

If you were somewhat older, I would think you were writing about my 1st wife. She never changed, some never do. I happened to talk to her last week, after a few years (we've been divorced since 1981), and she is still the same old, same old.

Sometimes, I wonder if I should have hung in and try again when she bailed out the 2nd time. After speaking to her last week, I'm glad I moved on with my life. I still wonder how I survived 19 years with that woman.

If your wife has all those problems and doesn't want to help herself, then leave and don't look back. Believe it or not, if you are doing good, in a few years she will return.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, I want to get out some of the things I mentioned in my original post, this is not to put her in a bad light, but I think it will anyway, probably myself also for not sticking up for what I thought was right. These are some of the things she does, and it will not be a "complete" list.

1. Shoplifting - small things like lipstick, other makeup, shell hide it under other things in the cart, paper ads, heavy objects that stay in the cart etc...

2. Example, a guy she met offered to give her 50 bales of hay for her horses and he said she could pay him at the end of the week, never saw him again. Asked her repeated if she paid him, to no avail.

3. 2 Christmas's ago, she stole her grandmothers credit card, ran it up and bailed, also stole my sisters and did the same, I found out when my sister came to me asking questions.

4. Tells alot of little lies to alot of people, mostly for her to stay out of some sort of trouble.

5. Stole my money out of the bank about a week ago and told me the teller "messed up" somehow, then told me when I asked about it that she needed it for bills, didnt matter when I told her that was to pay MY bills.

6. Totally irresponsable about bills, and when I would pay them she would flip because I did something without her knowing.

7. Skipped out on alot of landlords before me owing tons of money

8. We just bought a new car, downpayment was due on the side as an additional payment besides the car payment that came out of our checking, she hasnt paid one cent of that, its now over $600 that she hasnt paid for that, but car payment is being taken automatically, she said that they cant come take the car so so what.

9. Linked to #8 but, we used my car as trade-in, which was the car in my name, we also have a truck in her name, guess what, she has the new car thats in her name, and the truck is still sitting here, but now with no plates on it because she took them, so I walk everywhere now.

10. She has no regard for anyone but herself, even though everything Ive listed so far has been somehow my fault.

Thats the short list, and this is the second time she has left and lived with another man and said nothing has happened, I just found out from her that she has been lying the last 1.5 years about the last time, and I told her over and over and over that I knew somethign happened and to just tell me so we could move on, she never did.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh...this list feels so weird to read...sounds like your WW and my WW are cut from the same cloth! My WW has had more than one A, forged her sister's name on a check and cashed it (at the local bank, right on camera...duh!), tells lies, irresponsible with money and bills, etc. Everything you listed, my WW has done something similar to each one...and so much more! Maybe our WWs are related? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont remember her being like this when we met, I know about the whole fog thing when your first in love and that is my only explanation, wish I had been stronger when I needed to be, maybe things would be different, oh well, not dwelling on that, point is im strong enough now to realize I dont want this, I thought maybe Id try and get her to see something needed changed now, oh well, my mistake, live and learn, thanks for the support. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally hear what you are saying here. Love for my WW blinded me in many ways. Hardly any flaws were apparent in the beginning of my R then M to my W. I keep getting told my M isn't worth saving and that is probably true...if only my emotions would agree.

Dimmu