I'm a strange place right now. WH says that OW doesn't want to see him anymore. At this point, I believe there is NC. He's in withdrawal and not talking. His work is still insane, time-consuming and ever-present. He has his first IC session tomorrow and I'm not going to bug him about things until this happens. Right now, I'm longing to start MC. Hopefully, we can get it scheduled soon. WH wanted to do a little IC first. I'm fine with that. Maybe that will help him gets his thoughts together and I'll use the time to do the same.

My husband is a Taker. I suppose you could say he gives a lot at work. If asked by other people, he will give but never spontaneously. He is a Taker. I'm talking about a man who might put his dirty dishes in the dishwasher but won't load in any other dirty dishes sitting there. Who if on a work phone call and sitting by a pile of clean laundry, will fold his own by nobody elses. Someone who rushes into a kid's event (concert, game, match) at the very last minutes and leaves as soon as possible. Often without even saying goodbye. A man who can't even say "how are you feeling today, hope you feel better." to his sick wife. (Yes I've got some upper respiratory crud today. Cough, cough, cough)

Can any amount of counseling help a man see that giving is part of a relationship? I'm afraid to point out too much now as it might be a LB. Are we DOOMED???

Not sure if this is a question or a vent...

HC,
I'm curious as to why you are so eager to begin MC ? What do you hope it accomplishes and HOW ?

I think the Giver/Taker is a matter of perception in the things you listed. I've read of many spouses that won't do any household chores. NONE, nada zilch. Apparently, domestic support is one of your Emotional Needs. Has it always been this way ?

For example, my husband will do his own laundry, to help me out, and he will also iron his shirt for the morning if I'm just too tired or too busy. I never agreed to these things, it just so happens my husband has an EN of domestic support. He wants to be cared for, laundry, ironing, cooking. I work 50 hours a week, I HATE doing this stuff, but I make the effort.

Whereas, my sister, God love her, can't cook a lick, doesn't even take her own plate to the sink. My BIL doesn't have an EN of domestic support.

I'm really wanting to dive into your MC desire..and what your desired result is ?

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: betrayedinjersey ]</small>

Hmmmm....I think I want to start MC because I want a controlled place for us to talk. WH is a big stonewaller. The only way I can get him to talk is late at night after a couple beers. He's hard to pin down and having a moderator for the conversation might help. He says he's really confused and believes IC will help him sort it all out. I guess maybe we need some kind of "translator" between us. I'm also impatient about this. I hate limbo. I don't like be strung out. Emotionally, this has been too hard. I know we haven't been in the process long but we've probably had these some problems for most of our marriage. He's never do MC before.

What do I expect from MC? Communication. Introspection. A piece of my hubby. At this point, he won't talk, won't take the time to fill out an EN questionaire. He doesn't want to hear about my EN. In this semi-Plan A we're in, he would probably see me talking about my EN as nagging. I don't have a place to start.

I also believe that it's not entirely his choice whether this marriage survives or not. He may be in NC but the underlying problems are still there. I think we could skate around in this halfworld of marriage for some time. He could come and go. I could do what I do. We could have some common ground with our kids, families and history. This isn't enough for me. Until we address our problems, our marriage is a sham. I'm trying to figure out what my ENs are. I think having somebody say "I hope you feel better!" when I'm sick is one of them.

Do you think these are unrealistic expectations of MC?

Carol your WH and my WH must be twins!!
Stonewalling, inconsiderate, no empathy. My husband has never been one to help out around the house, but when this is discussed in MC he turns it around and makes it sound like 1) I am obsessed with housework or 2) He does it all while I go off and go to exercise class. He outright lies in MC and of course I can not respond in anger cause that would be a big LB, right? What the hell is that??

I have maybe once in 15 years gotten a phone call when I am home sick to say "how are you feeling", "Need anything".... The "I love you's" and "I am sorry" I am sure is less tha 50 over 17 years of being together. I have started to think that he has some major pathological emotional problems. Personally I do not believe MC will do anything about it. And IC for him is going to take years especially since he goes once every 3 weeks. He says he wants me to "leave him alone",
so I have decided to go dark. It is so hard because after 17 years you are kind of used to reaching out to your best friend. Now MB discussion forum is my best friend.

Sorry I can not be more optimistic, but if it helps I am all ears and very sympathetic to what you are feeling.

You're right. One of the worst parts of this is losing your friend. He was a least a sounding board. I could project a comment or question about something and he would reflect it back. Sometimes, even give an answer.

I think sometimes about all the things I stopped sharing with him because he didn't seem interested. That probably didn't help our little drifting problem. There are issues I've had in my life that a little empathy would have helped. Like the day my dr. called and told me I was in menopause. A part of you is glad but another part mourns it. It was something I wanted to share with somebody. I didn't because it didn't feel safe to share it with him and I didn't think he cared. It felt like such a BIG thing that it hurt less to share it than to have him blow it off. In the 3 years since then, he's never said anything about why I don't get my period anymore. Didn't he notice or didn't he care?

I despair, I really do.

Went to a Mworkshop with Mark Gungor...very funny...entertaining...and informative.

He has a video clip on his website that reminded me of your post.

Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage

Go to the video clip section and "Brains".

Watch them all...these are just SMALL parts of the seminar, and taken out of context. He was WELL worth going to see, and VERY reasonable.

His point after this clip is that men have to be asked very sweetly and then praised afterward, it is not in their nature to want to help and give...but if htey get something in return...affection...kisses...then...

He said his wife will take both her hands and place them on either side of his face and squeeze and say to him, "You are such a goooood husband." I'll never forget the picture of him in my mind of hte grinning little kid rocking back and forth on his heels seeming to look around for something else to do to help out so she would say it again to him...

Thanks! That guy is really funny. And so right on... Did going to his event have any lasting effect on your marriage? Did it start any talking? Too bad the tour doesn't come anywhere near where I live.

Ys, I think it did. It's hard not to go see a speaker so insightful, dynamic, and FUNNY as Mark and not come home with something.

My FWH is not the type to read ANY R or M books. This was the only workshop I could even begin to ask him to go to because he was half entertaining, and the other half informational.

What we got out of it was a very honest description of the differences between men and women, and some very practical advice to use. He told some very funny story that all H and I is have to say the word and we know what we're talking about. I bought a pair of pants from the workshop with "Bingo" written on one leg and now whenever I wear it H can't keep his hands off me...

(I sound like a commercial for the workshop)

One of hte best things we took out of there was an online test called flag page solutions...it was simple and showed in a very graphic and simple wya what are the largest motivators for H and I. I found out how different we are, and how some of my actions have desperately hurt our M and how hurt I've become by what seems like simple acitons by him. I can now say to him..."You're stepping on my flag" and he knows what I mean.

He does offer a DVD of his show...the highlights.

Cerri had talked about him on her website after meeting him at a M conference, and after research he sounded like he was right up our alley. We actually travelled a few hours to see him (closest he came to).