Hi all,

I was just thinking about some of the devastating things my WW said and did at the start of her A.

I feel a little sample of the pain all over again when I remember these things.

I won't ever forget them.

And I shudder to think that every time these things enter my memory, I'll get that little taste.

I wish I could expect a time when I'll have those memories and they won't hurt.

Sadly, I doubt that time will ever come.

The memories, and the feelings associated with them, are a burden I'm sad we all have to carry. But I guess that's life.

GC

Do what I do, gc.

I think back on the early gc posts I read when you came here, the posts in the middle that showed what kind of bright, kind, and thoughtful man you really are, and I compare your sitch now with points along my own journey since d-day.

And you know? While I don't think the memories will necessarily go away, I do believe they won't have the power 2 hurt you anymore. Because, you see, you've consistently done the right thing, the thoughtful thing, through all this.

-ol' 2long

Graycloud - About a year ago I found myself in this nightmare and I keep thinking that one day I will wake up and the pain will be gone. It is what keeps me going. As Christmas gets closer I find myself thinking more and more of the things that I thought I had before I found out the reality and I still feel the intense pain of loss. It seems incredible that the one we chose to love and trust is the one who used those things against us to hurt us the most. And I am one of the "lucky" ones as my spouse stopped the affair immediately (to my knowledge)and we began to work on the marriage.

Your pain is real to you now, but as time goes by it will become less intense - I know this from past experience and you probably do too. My FWH said some pretty stupid and hurtful things to me too and sometimes seeing him every day remembering what he did and said just makes my head spin. The damage will always be there, but the wound will scar and the scar will fade. When that happens for you and you move on with your life, some woman (maybe even your WS) will feel incredibly lucky to have you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GC,

You and a few others saved my life not to long ago because of the painful things a ws can say and do.

When you feel this pain think about the life you saved ----> Mine

If you had not cared, my children would be left to be raised by my insane ww and possibly the Om.

If you need to talk I will always be here for you, no matter what time of day or night.

I may not be a vet, But I have a heart and I care about all of the pain we all carry with us. I think the day I forgave my ww was the day that pain went away, I just refused to let it weigh me down.

I still have my day's when the things she tells me about the A cause a new kind of pain but that pain lets me know i'm alive and loving.

When I was in the military, I was shot in the knee. I was in such pain that I wished I would just pass out and die, The medic looked at me and told me does the pain hurt, My response, What the fu*k do you think, he laughed and said good, then your feeling alive..

he was right, pain lets us know were alive and feeling.

I rather have this pain then to feel numb to it all. would'nt you agree?

I'm here if you need me..and you know my number , call anytime you need a friendly voice

Gray -

I promise you that these feelings will end. I have been doing this stuff for almost 2 years, and my WH is still "in love" with OW. But I am not sad anymore. I am very happy with my life. I can even talk to him like a friend now.

That will happen to you too. Plus I do think that the sparrow WILL wake up. It takes time, but usually happens. So hang in there, and play more music.

Hi Graycloud...gosh, I haven't posted on MB for ages, and now two times in one week. I'm a BS, two years post DDay, and there are times when the pain still manages to creep up and take me by surprise. However, when memories resurface for either myself or the kids, we allow ourselves to laugh or cry if necessary in order to work through it. Seize the day and start creating new memories to replace the old ones. Personal recovery will also help in the healing process; time is the very best friend of the betrayed spouse.

Give yourself the gift of time this year GC and I can promise you, things will get better and the pain will subside. Count your blessings and remember, God never gives you what you cannot handle. We may suffer now, but oh boy, the WS pay for it dearly in the end....

Happy Holidays
kimmie

IMO, the memories just shift and bend, never go away. I am fast-approaching 1 year to D-day. I am approaching a lot of "anniversaries" that are NOT pleasant. Does it hurt like last year? No where near. Does it still hurt? Yes. More of a sad ache for all that has been lost, with a splash of gratefulness that we are in recovery. And a dash of pride at finally learning what a healthy M is and both of us taking responsibility for learning that so that our children can grow up with healthy examples of men and women sharing a life together.

So, yes it will be there, IMO, but different. Always a sadness, though. BUT, without the sadness, would I remember to be grateful? You know us humans, when everything is "status quo," we tend to be less vigilant.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong>
I wish I could expect a time when I'll have those memories and they won't hurt.

Sadly, I doubt that time will ever come.

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey GC... Those bad/sad memories will fade as you and your W work through the issues.

It took my W and I just a bit over 2 years to work through all of our issues, but once we did, the bad memories just aren't that painful for me anymore...

They still pop up from time to time, but they don't have the same effect that they did when we were just starting out to rebuild our M.

Semper Fi,
RIF

Thanks everybody. I haven't had pain related to a relationship since high school! And I laugh at the memory of that, even though it was like the end of the world at the time. Of course, this is an entirely different ball of wax.

I just learned that an old family friend, one of our neighbors when I was a kid, has been diagnosed with ALS. They've given her 3-5 years.

Now that's a heavy load.

GC

Wow, GC. I'm so sorry about your HS friend. I know that one of the ways I "got perspective" during my H's Wayward days, was to realize that the absolute WORST thing that could happen to me is if one/both of my children was diagnosed with a terminal illness. When I thought of that, I thought I might even barter my M with God if I thought it would help my child(ren).

I know that sounds demented and wrong, but it is what I thought.

Peace to you, GC. Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> Hi all,

I was just thinking about some of the devastating things my WW said and did at the start of her A.

I feel a little sample of the pain all over again when I remember these things.

I won't ever forget them.

And I shudder to think that every time these things enter my memory, I'll get that little taste.

I wish I could expect a time when I'll have those memories and they won't hurt.

Sadly, I doubt that time will ever come.

The memories, and the feelings associated with them, are a burden I'm sad we all have to carry. But I guess that's life.

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GC, I'm quoting your whole post because I have something pretty serious and a little painful to discuss with you. Are ya up to it??

When I was married, my H was mentally ill, sexually addicted, and mentally and emotionally and verbally and sexually and financially and physically abusive. When he was manic, he would stay up all night and scream at me for not supporting him enough to stay up with him. when he had been manic for a few days, he would rage at me and do horrible, awful things that I don't care to write on here. I have written a list TWO PAGES long, two columns each page, single spaced of abuse that I've endured--what you imagine can not be worse than what actually happened to me. When he was depressed, he would be unable to work and blame me for not being able to get anything done. He cheated on my THIRTEEN TIMES that I can prove, and I suspect there were several more. And what REALLY SUCKS is that when he was cheating on me, he was even more abusive.

GC, right now I am in a good place. I live in a home that is the perfect size, in a BEAUTIFUL place, with friendly neighbors--I work in a place that is spiritual and harmonious and interesting and supportive--I have friends and people in my life who love me--and my entire being is a life of peace and respect. I have a VERY GOOD life, now.

When I look back on my past, there are times when I am shocked. It hurts to remember!! It is hard to remember the pain of being alone when my YD was born 2 months early because my ex was with his OW. It HURTS to remember being so degraded and afraid and unloved. For a very brief moment, I relive the event and the feeling...

But dear one, it IS the past. It is not where I am now. My past was very, very painful, but it made me the wonderful woman I am today. I am able to accomplish my purpose NOW, because of the things that happened to me. I am the wise, strong, purposeful woman I am today as a result of the things that happened to me. Nonetheless, I am not back there; it is not happening to me now. Right now, I am in my sweats, in my wonderful home, with both of my children safely tucked in bed, with presents and egg nog and holiday cookies in our tummies. Right now, I am in a peaceful environment, and I see myself as valuable and beautiful.

My point here, GC, is that that things that your WW did to you were very, very painful. You were wounded--this is just true. But those painful memories ARE in the past and have contributed to making you the man you are today. You may not ever "forget" the deep pain that you have felt, but as time goes on, you won't dwell on the past either--neither will you feel the pain so deeply. When I remember now the night my H burned my marriage books on our anniversary--I remember it with the sorrow of seeing my valuable books burning, with the pain of being afraid to try to save them, with the shame of not being able to defend myself...and my heart feels an ache in remembering but does not fully experience the full, deep pain. Time has dulled the grief.

GC, it's true...you won't forget. But the time will come when you do not dwell on it either. The time will come when you can remember how sparrow treated you, and it will ache but not hurt. The time will come when you are in YOUR life, living YOUR intention, and even remembering will not be quite so bad. You will be living in the PRESENT, not in the past, so that even the past will seem like stepping stones to get to where you are.

I hope you will do something for me here. Trust me. I know it does hurt, and I know that you were treated just like you were worthless, but that was the past. You have grown SO MUCH and become such a mature, wonderful man, and that is where you are in the present. Trust me. It hurts now, but it really does get better and your really are on the road.


CJ

Sorry Greycloud
I totally understand IM getting alot of bad stuff from my WH and hes no picnic, He told me tonite for the first time it was OVER between us since he left about a month ago. Still get same stuff since first day, we havent moved in any direction at all and I mad him mad.
But Im not allow to be mad.
I just cant take it anymore.
(I think all BS need to get together and have a big party and a group hug. because I dont see myself getting a hug from him and I seem to need that and it is so far away now.)

but I understand but I guess it wont kill us even though we wish there was something to end this pain. I have a 2yr old son so I must be strong, find your reason and put your heart into it, whatever it may be. Good luck and God Bless

Wow, CJ. Wow.

I didn't really intend for this thread to be about me, so I'm glad you described your past a little. What I've gone through pales. There's no need for me to trivialize it, but it pales no less.

I didn't mean for my post to moan, oh lawdy, when will the pain go away? I just wondered how people further on down the road experience their memories, as a guide for people further on up the road.

I think I've left the impression that I'm in a very bad way this week. And I am not. I've felt far worse than this, though I do grow weary, and should have been asleep hours ago.

Thanks to all!

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I didn't mean for my post to moan, oh lawdy, when will the pain go away? I just wondered how people further on down the road experience their memories, as a guide for people further on up the road. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I can summarize what I said up above! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I experience my memories a little bit like watching a VERY sad movie. It seems like it was a lifetime ago, and it feels a little bit like it was someone else who lived throught it. Every once in a while, if I'm very tired or if a trigger jumped up that was unanticipated, I cry--but not usually. Usually, I can talk about my memories without re-experiencing the pain. In fact, sometimes I even think of my memories thankfully because now I'm such a strong, cool person!! No...seriously!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I think I've left the impression that I'm in a very bad way this week. And I am not. I've felt far worse than this, though I do grow weary, and should have been asleep hours ago. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No...you have left the impression that you are going through a bit of a regurgitation in your life. Some of the things that have not been in the forefront of your thoughts and feelings are being bubbled up to the surface. When a person goes through growth spurts, stuff comes up and it's uncomfortable--hey, sometimes it hurts--and then another step of growing is born.

One thing you said bugs me a little (a very little) is "...I've felt far worse than this, though I do grow weary..." Of course you do! No human can deal with this kind of pain and profound maturing 24/7--we all need a break from it and need to restore ourselves. I think one of the goals is to gradually not sink into the the depths of "feeling the worst" every time we remember. Sort of like a gradual incline: we feel a little better, we feel the worst; we feel better, we feel very sad; we feel much better, we feel sad; we feel very much better, we feel some sadness--and finally, we just feel peace.

And on that lovely thought...Night!!


CJ

CJ said it perfectly:

I experience my memories a little bit like watching a VERY sad movie. It seems like it was a lifetime ago, and it feels a little bit like it was someone else who lived throught it.

I'm almost three years post D-Day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (Wow, I remember sitting in agony and thinking "I *know* in time I will heal, and in time this will fade, but will time *ever* pass?? - and it has!!)

When the worst parts of my H's EA suddenly pop into my mind (and they *rarely* do), it is very much like remembering a sad book or movie.

At first I think "H? No way! He couldn't possibly do something like that." but of course I *know* those things happened because I *remember* them happening. Then I feel the remote, muffled pain and sadness. Then I think of how far we've come and how much I've learned, and I get excited and giddy to see H again. Then I remind myself to never, Never, NEVER take him for granted or forget those lessons, and that if something is as precious to me as my M, I should always nurture and protect it. These thoughts and feelings occur boom-boom-boom very quickly, one behind the other.

On the extremely rare occasion that my thoughts are followed by "What if it happens again?" I feel a little heart skip - not even a stomach flip - and I immediately feel very strong and confident, believe it or not. I know that if it ever happened again I would be less of a basket case, better able to protect myself, and more capable of looking at the underlying problems rather than the surface symptoms. I also know that I have learned to deal with M issues in a good, healthy, and constructive way.

GC,

Nowadays, I'm usually doing fairly well, but once in a while I think about the things that I read in my WH's emails to his OW and I feel the pain creeping up once again and it is just unbearable. Sometimes I wonder, too, if it will ever really get better. I sometimes wish that I would have never read their emails/letters, but I did and I'm sure there is a reason for me finding them.

One thing that I've thought about recently though is if some of us here at MB are maybe just very sensitive people, too. My best friend cheated on her husband about two years ago and they divorced. A few weeks after they separated, he met another woman, fell in love and is now seemingly happily married with a new baby. I often wondered if he ever experienced this kind of pain or if it was just easier for him to move on with his life.

What makes some of us feel this pain seemingly stronger than others? Or do other's just hide it better?

Just some thoughts...

Kati

There seems to be a give and take a lot of the time with regard to recovery with or without the spouse.

It seems that with the spouse..aka marital recovery is faster to a point..because resumption of the life you have planned to live together or a reasonable facsimile is in place. You still have pain and sadness..probably forever, because you are still attached to the person and the betrayal and potential for future betrayal is something you have a vested interest in.

Without the spouse..divorce..It seems it takes longer..by quite a bit to lose all feeling and all reaction..as you now have to rebuild a different life than the one you have been investing in for the majority of your adult life..but ultimately it is a more complete detachment from the person and anything they may ever do or have ever done..particularly when you move on so to speak with a new relationship the depth of which exceeds the previous one..for example..if in the distant future..you met and married another woman and began a family together..this union would exceed in both time and investment the union with your Sparrow. Assuming of course that the next one was "the one".

Is this making any sense? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> bleh.

Noodle