My WH started a relationship with a co-worker since January 2004. We had some trouble in our marriage earlier because he feels his emotional needs were not met.

I found out about the A after receiving bills for hotels. He blames me for the A. According to him he has not had sexual intercourse but they have a very close friendship and he takes her out to dance clubs, dinner and lunch and even out of town trips when I am away and they have lengthy conversations. His explanation for the hotels was that he pays for the hotels when she goes out with him and stays there since she lives far from town but some of the hotel bills have 2 Guests and he says it is probably a mistake. He says she pays him back.

I found out three weeks ago about the A but we reconciled and we had very lengthy discussions on what was wrong with the marriage. At first he felt there was nothing left to salvage but I convinced him to give us another chance on the basis that he would end it with his co-worker. After that, he has been depressed and I guess undergoing withdrawal. I have been very affectionate, accommodating and willing.

Recently I asked him if he still communicates with the OW and he said yes. I asked him to completely cut-off all relationship (including personal jokes, phone calls, etc) and friendship to just cordial Hi and Bye. He said that speaking from his heart he cannot and that she makes him happy and he wants to work this out in his own time. He seems to have lots of female friends (his co-workers) whom he gives “advice” and they are very open in their conversations even about sex. He understands he would definitely want me to cut everything off if I were in the situation. He wants the best of both worlds because he says I fulfill some needs and she fulfills some.

Since we have been rebuilding he has not been very affectionate or apologetic and focuses on my problems instead of the affair. He feels everything is my fault and I led him to have the affair. I told him I cannot go on rebuilding this marriage unless he breaks all ties. I don't understand if he never had sexual intercourse with this person why this request is so hard but I do not know the extent of his feelings for her (except that he seems very depressed) or the extent of her feelings for him (she is married with one child but separated from her husband). Was I right to give him this ultimatum? He is the single most important person in my life, usually trust-worthy, family oriented with many qualities I would be hard-pressed to find elsewhere and I would like our marriage to continue but not if he is going to continue any kind of relationship with the OW. When we first got together though he left his longtime girlfriend of 9 years for me and now we’ve been together for 8 years total and married for 3. He’s never been without a woman since high school. I talked about moving to another state, another department and counseling but those are out of the question for him.

I'm thinking of getting a divorce but should we separate first (separate rooms or separate addresses completely)? Was I right for asking him to break off the relationship completely or can they still be friends? I really want to call the co-worker’s estranged husband and family to let them know the type of person she is. I don't know what to do.

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: hurtwifefromindy ]</small>

Welcome to MB. I'm sorry that you had to find this site though, because of the circumstances of your H's A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Firstly, let me assure you of something... NEVER believe your H when he says it's your fault he had an A. Yes, you contributed to 50% of the marriage beforehand, but HE is the one who made the 100% CHOICE to become intimately involved with an OW.

It's a long journey you're about to embark on. But if you really want to save your M, the MB principles are the way to do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Read up on plan A and plan B. You need to be in plan A right now. To do a good job at it, you'll need to read up on lovebusters (LB's) and avoid them during your plan A. Your primary goal during your plan A is to become the BEST you there is. During that time, you'll be working towards fulfilling your H's emotional needs (EN's) as much as you can. If he'll help you, have him fill out the EN questionnaire... or if you don't want to tell him about MB just yet, then fill it out on behalf of him.

As far as getting advice on here, be sure to post to others, even if only to offer words of encouragement and support. The more you post to others, the more they'll likely post to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

p.s. try not to make your posts in one huge paragraph.. it makes it really hard to read. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks so much for the advice. It's really helpful to hear from someone else especially since my H was the only one that I confided in.

I tried following Plan A but he continually and vehemently rejected cutting off all communication with the OW.

Recently I called the OW's parents and told them about the A. Then when my H found out, he was extremely mad (b/c she came to him teery eyed...like I haven't been doing that all along). He thought I should have let him take care of it and now he demanded a separation and says he doesn't want to be controlled or be in a marriage. However, he doesn't want his friends at work or my family to know we are separated.

Now we are separated but still living in the same house and I don't know what to do? He seems willing to reconcile but only under his terms.

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: hurtwifefromindy ]</small>

I can guarantee that his hotel story is a BIG lie. He is just being the typical WS. Start exposing his affair, and do Plan A.

HWFI,

What a sucky place to be (in life) but what a wonderful place you've found (Marriage Builders). Welcome.

He blames me for the A.

This is because he feels guilty and when we are embarrassed and guilty we often become defensive and shift blame. This is *very common* (universal?) aomong affairees. Please give it no creedence. Don't try to defend yourself or blame him, he isn't open to these ideas right now and it will only serve to stir up conflict. Just know in your heart that although you helped contribute to the marriage, HE ALONE chose to become involved in an A.

I guess what I'm saying is to know in your heart this is not so, and allow yourself to remain calm in the face of such nonsense.

According to him he has not had sexual intercourse
I think you and I both know this is a bunch of hooey. Sorry to say that. Likewise the hotel stuff. WS are amazing liars. Not to worry, your lovable H is still under there somewhere; right now he is very lost.

Recently I asked him if he still communicates with the OW and he said yes.

Believe it or not, this is AMAZINGLY GOOD. He was HONEST with you about something that he knew would "get him in trouble." When he is honest with you, despite the fact that the content of the message hurts, please try to appreciate that he is being honest with you and thank him for his honesty. Don't ever punish him (with angry outbursts or disrespectful judgments) for being honest. The hardest part of an affair is not the fact that your spouse was intimate with someone else - it is trying to get over all the lies and deception. So, this honesty is a rare gift.

I asked him to completely cut-off all relationship (including personal jokes, phone calls, etc) and friendship to just cordial Hi and Bye.

You can't tell him what to do. You can't control him. You *can* say "It hurts me greatly when you talk to OW. Please cease contact with her." and then after that it's in his hands. You may have done this, I'm not criticizing you, just letting you know that if you adapt a mindset now of "I can't control him, I can only control me" you will save yourself quite a bit of angst.

Cordial Hi and Bye are not allowed either, BTW. But he's not ready for that so don't bother bringing it up just yet.

He said that speaking from his heart he cannot and that she makes him happy and he wants to work this out in his own time.

VERY typical.

Since we have been rebuilding he has not been very affectionate or apologetic and focuses on my problems instead of the affair. He feels everything is my fault and I led him to have the affair. I told him I cannot go on rebuilding this marriage unless he breaks all ties.

Okay, while he's still involved with OW you guys are NOT rebuilding. Forget rebuilding for now, that will come later.

Right now, read up on Plan A.
Read up on Emotional Needs and try to guess what his are and do your best to meet them.
Read up on Love Busters and avoid them like the plague.

The point of Plan A is NOT to be a doormat. You are NOT expected to play nice in the face of pain. You should tell him how his actions make you feel, and then drop it. No demands, no ultimatums, no ugly language, no putting him down, no blaming, etc. Just matter of fact "When you talk to OW I feel like our intimate bond has been invaded. It hurts me greatly." or whatever you feel.


Was I right to give him this ultimatum?

No, read up on Love Busters.

I talked about moving to another state, another department and counseling but those are out of the question for him.

You are so totally on target with your thinking it's nothing short of astounding, considering the emotional state you must be in. This is for later, though, not now. He's not ready to hear this now. He's wanting to protect his A at all costs.

I'm thinking of getting a divorce but should we separate first

NO NO NO NO NO.
Don't make ANY major decisions for at least six months.

Plan A for now.
Meet ENs.
Avoid LBs.
Expose the A to those who may have an impact on it - OW's husband, his parents, your pastor.

You can't meet ENs while you're separated. Stay in the same room and show him how attractive and pleasant you are. YES it's HARD. You can do it. Be a haven for him.

I wouldn't have SF (sexual fulfillment, one of the ENs) without a condom for a while though.

Was I right for asking him to break off the relationship completely or can they still be friends?

YOU WERE RIGHT. You can't demand it, though, you can only respectfully ask for this.

I really want to call the co-worker’s estranged husband and family to let them know the type of person she is.

Make sure you have proof (hotel bills or whatever) and don't do this to "let them know what kind of person she is". That's the wrong mindset. Do it because you want to save your M, you love your H, and you would appreciate their help in ending the A and helping the affairees return to their marriages where recovery, growth, and healing can begin.

*whew* that was a novel. Hope it helps.
Keep posting!!

Welcome. I have been where you are and after 8 months of trying to recover I can say it has be a hard long journey and somedays I feel like I just started the trip! You have come to a fantastic site full of very knowledgble and caring people. I don't feel I am qualified to help with suggestions and answers but just wanted you to know I understand what you are going through and the journey that you are beginning. Hang in there and never give up, there is always hope!

WOW! All the advice is great. It is so amazing when I control my temper and use a warm loving voice, he is so receptive. Thanks so much to all for your responses. It helps give me direction when I feel so lost.

Even though he said he wanted to be separated, I think I can convince him to try Plan A again. I'll be more patient this time.

Thanks so much for the great advice. I feel so clueless so it's great to have this forum for support and guidance.

Well I decided that I ought to let my H's brother (closest family member to him) know the truth last night. Still waiting for the reaction from my H but knowing him he's probably going to avoid answering his call.

I also talked to some of my H's co-workers. I didn't tell them anything but they all knew what was going on. They said my H and the OW would always need to run errands during lunch (my H never runs errands) and then they would see them together at some restaurant. My H would always say that he was going out with his co-workers but they all said that they stopped going out with him after they noticed how close him and the OW were getting.

It's funny b/c my H feels like he's fooling everyone but they all know the truth. So much for the reputation he was trying so much to protect.

The sad thing is this is a woman I welcomed into our house during house parties and even offered OUR BED since she was too drunk to drive home. All this time she was just planning a way to replace me. How could I have been so blind?

Some of my H's co-workers are going out tonight and they invited me. I think my H and the OW are going to be there too. Should I go?

Wow, sorry hurting in indy. You're story is WAY TO SIMILAR to mine (We're even in the same town if you name means it.)
My WW is with a co-worker. She works far away from home as well. (If you are in the area, she works in howard county.)
Trust me it is HARD. my WW even kicked ME out of the house. I stayed away for a couple of weeks. Then one day I came back and said, I want to work this out and I can't if I'm not living here. I told her if She wants to leave the marriage, she is the one who needs to leave. It was probably a big LB but I'm still in the house and so is she. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I truly feel for you

What is going on with Indiana? Something in the water here?

I wish that was the answer!!! then I would stock up on bottled water (and buy tons of stock in a water bottling company too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

The biggest mistake I made was to seperate.
If I could go back I would have never done it. I would have stayed put and held my ground.

hurtwife..

plan A is doner with the understanding and 'expectation' that there is contact...

though you should speak your pain about the contact...

"When you choose to spend so much tieme with another woman...it hurts that you don't want to spend time with me...."

say it softly without tears...
speak your pain....

plan a is showing him hope that the two of you can be a team together...
that you even when his behavior is abbhorable...you still care about him as a person..

this is not to condone his behavior...

speak that you miss him

cook things he like...but do it without comment or expecting any type of receptive thanks

pick up a dessert he likes...etc...

fill the home with warmth and joy....

pick a time limit in your head for plan a and prepare for plan b....

what are his 'reasons' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> for the affair....

ARK

Well he agreed to end the separation and try to works things out for a couple of months. Time to work on Plan A...except I didn't know Plan A involved accepting that there might be some contact with the OW but I'm trying it anyway. My H wants me to just chill and listen to him.

His reasons for the affair were lack of communication, SF, my time away from home (I travel every week for work), and I'm too opinionated and independent (which makes him feel like less of a man) and not enough affection. Quite a lot but all things I'm willing to work on them for the sake of our marriage.

here's what mr. harley says plan a is for...

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.


hope that helps....
plan a is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLl about continued contact...the goal is that it becomes less and less...
the goal is that the OP becomes more the emotional demander...while the BS presents a even keeled safer zone...

ark

I just found out some more information about the A and I'm so LIVID. I just want to call my WH up and let him know that I know but I know I can't since I'm trying to work on Plan A. We had planned a big vacation this year to visit my family and a week before he cancelled. I just found hotel receipts and airline arrangements that during the time I was away visiting my family, he was galavanting cross-country with the OW, specifically to places he and I had been on vacation. I feel so numb.