Spidey...do you think it appropriate at this point if Tqt talks to WW to say to her " I would appreciate it if you wouldn't just drop by like you did. It is difficult for me to see you, especially since you don't seem to know what you want right now".

I went on NC this past week and made it through the weekend until WH called to talk to the kids, oh and talk to me too!! I made small talk and just like Tqt I could hear the "sadness" in his voice. I am proud to say I was the Lighthouse. Told him about the great weekend I had with the kids, the great dinner I had made, etc, etc. I didn't let him bring me down.

Tqt...you talk about your WW never saying "I'm sorry." Well she may never...even if she wants to come back. I told me WH that was one thing I had to have before he did, if he did decide to come back. And it may be the one thing that keeps him from coming back, because I don't see him saying it if he doesn't mean it. I give him credit for that. I can not believe how many books I have read in the last few months and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM talks about the dance of persuer and distancer. If you leave the distance alone when they say they need their space they will eventually want, need, crave closeness and become the persuer. I am banking on this because I can not believe that all those PhD's who have spent their lives studying this can be wrong. Like Spidey says the 13 days....3 weeks....2 months is so small in terms of time. Your not going to rush into another relationship right away anyhow so why not go on with your life as is.
Detach, detach, detach. Be frank and tell her that you can not stay healthy and will not be dragged down with her. Tell her you are giving her all the time and space she needs to figure out what it is she needs. Because we all know it is not about WHO she needs.
If she decides to move on..you yourself said you could deal with that. In the meantime you are getting stronger, not in the sense of losing your love, but in the sense that regardless of her decision you will be OK. Remember she is really screwed up and you and I are both lucky that we have never been to the place she is right now. I keep reading about the "sick" spouse. If this were a case of illness such as cancer, we would not give up on our spouse. And many ill spouses are not able to love the same way, because frankly it is all about them and their illness. How is this any different? I would die for my children and I believe I would die for my spouse. I have died a thousand deaths with this A and seperation, and will probably die a thousand more before it is over. But you know what if my WH comes home it will be worth it, if he doesn't....I won't look back.

Wow! There is a LOT in a name change, I tell you. You are doing AWESOME, Homer! *sniff* Reminds me of someone I know! ME!!!

It is weird reading someone else write something you are sure you posted yourself so many many months ago. This is truly all a process, a cycle, and the wheel must turn all the way around before everything reverses itself. Kind-of a long sentence for a fortune cookie, but it is deep! Er, well, I'm gonna let that one go.

No, I don't think it is OK for tqt to call his WW. I think he should just send her the Plan B letter and let it go at that. I think this is the PERFECT time for the letter, actually. Because when she gets the letter, she will realize that this is what he has been building up to, and why. And she will realize that he truly is stepping out of her life, as a separated H who is being cheated on SHOULD do at some point, and that either her OM or herself is going to have to figure it all out ~ take care of her.

Maybe send her the one final "favor" ~ a printout of the exercise equipment she should get, with the contact number ~ and let her order it and get it delivered on her own.

P.S., WW, here is the information you requested from me this past weekend. Good luck with it.

Because it is true what Homer says, tqt. Soon the roles could be reversed. If someone wants something badly enough, they will stop at NOTHING to get it. That is how WS's come home all the time. You do not know HOW MANY BS's have told me that their sitches looked hopeless (myself included), and laundry-listed off all the many reasons WHY the WS would NEVER come home. And guess what. They did.

Keep you hope. tqt, what's going on???

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tqt, what's going on???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MEGA-post coming soon...

ps. Are we having fun yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Once again, not sure where to start. Not sure where to END, either..

A couple pieces of info from the weekend, that I didn't get a chance to write about until now.

The woman -- a very nice woman, at that -- who cuts my hair, and has been for 15 years, is a former WW herself. "Former" in the sense that it was a long time ago. By the time she figured things out and tried to go back to her H, he told her no -- too late.

This woman ("TW") has been VERY interested in what's going on with WW/me, and since the beginning has always seemed to know exactly what I'm going to tell her next about WW's behavior, words, etc. Early on, TW suggested WW was depressed. Why? Because TW herself FINALLY figured out that's what HER problem was (it took years for her to figure it out), went on medication, and became a completely different person within days. Still on medication today.

So, when I saw TW Saturday morning, and filled her in on the latest, she said:

"I know I've said this before, but your W is a VERY selfish person."

"I'm thinking that it's probably going to take your W a long, long time to figure things out... to figure HERSELF out."

"Everything you've told me about what she does and says -- none of it makes ANY sense. I STILL see everything pointing to mental illness."
I said "By mental illness, you mean depression, right?" TW said "Yes. She NEEDS to be on medication!"

End of story.

---------------

Spidey, Homer and anyone else who needs the exercise, go ahead and get out the lumber and start swinging away...

After WW left the house yesterday afternoon, I felt like I needed to ask her a couple questions: 1) she seemed like she wanted to talk about something -- did she? 2) because of her very "UNhappy" demeanor -- still/again -- had she thought about talking to someone (ie. getting help)

And...since I was out last evening, and drove right by the store where WW's exercise equipment is, I stopped in and checked it out, as I said I would.

So... my excuse to... ummm.... CALL HER last night (ouch! Yikes! That's no 2x4, that's a steel pipe, man!) was to let her know my opinion on the exercise stuff. (fyi, she knows I did not make an immediate, special trip just to check it out -- earlier I had told her that "I'd be going right by the place later today anyway")

My plan for the phone call was to tell her about the equipment, ask her my two questions, and end the call.


She was sleeping on the couch (8:30 or so) -- NOT like her at all. I immediately envisioned a bored, lonely, depressed woman...

She was friendly. Big deal, I know....

She said No, there was nothing she was hoping to talk about earlier.
And to the "talking to someone" question, she said "No, I haven't thought about it lately."

I started to end the conversation, she said "thanks for checking out the exercise equipment -- I'll go look at the one you were talking about, and let you know what I do/decide." (WTF?!)


THIS MORNING... AGAIN... she tried to call me at home. She didn't leave a message.

That's one visit, and two phone calls in 18 hours, after a drought of 13 days.

----------------

BEFORE she showed up at the house yesterday:

I realized yesterday morning that I was MORE RELAXED than I've been in a year. I think I was actually walking around with a smile on my face, because it felt so STRANGELY nice to not be completely stressed out, in pain, etc. I think I had forgotten what it felt like.
I spent Saturday night ALONE at HOME, and I didn't care! I didn't even feel lonely! I enjoyed myself!
I had been getting EXCITED about my future -- WITHOUT her! I had once again recaptured my sense of self-worth, self-identity, self-esteem and all that fun stuff. All those things that over the last year my WW had done her best to destroy.
I've been noticing other women looking at me! (I must look available, or something.) Very NICE women -- sweet, warm, thoughtful, attractive women!
I've been wondering IF I want my WW back at all. Even if I DO want her back -- SHOULD I want her back? Will she ever get better? Will she ever be able to meet those needs (my needs) that I've been forced to realize that she never met BEFORE all this happened? Will there ever again be any "chemistry" between us? Will I be able to deal with the PA part of this mess? Will I ever be able to trust her again?

I was detached... moving on... I was doing VERY well, emotionally.

-----------------

AFTER she showed up:

I hadn't shed a tear for quite some time now. But I cried myself to sleep last night. (Why a grown man would voluntarily tell the world that information is beyond me..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Had another small bout of tears this morning. I'm not even sure why. I think it was when I started thinking about how it SHOULD have been -- how it COULD have been -- and remembering things in the past and remembering how GOOD it used to feel when I was with her -- beside her, next to her...

But then again... the "detached, moving on" me is also wondering... was it really that good? Was it good enough, or...? How good COULD it be with someone who KNOWS HOW to love someone? Maybe my mother and my sister are right when they say: "you've never known what it is to be truly LOVED."


And now it's like she's digging up all the pain that I worked so hard to heal... why don't I hate her? Where is my intense resentment and anger? Is it because I feel sorry for her? Because I'm worried for her, not just TODAY, but for her future?

Hell...she didn't even LOOK that good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do still love her. Is that enough?

-------------------


Anyone still there? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Let's assume for a minute that I want her back.

A Plan B letter, I think, would have to include her getting IC as a condition.

And as far as her leaving her job -- I can't see that happening. NO way...

A Plan B will probably send her to her attorney's office to initiate a divorce, but if that's the case, so be it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But then again... the "detached, moving on" me is also wondering... was it really that good? Was it good enough, or...? How good COULD it be with someone who KNOWS HOW to love someone? Maybe my mother and my sister are right when they say: "you've never known what it is to be truly LOVED." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No doubt that is true, but something kept you there 24 years. And no doubt there is someone out there that could give you that, so when the time comes...if the time comes you will find it.
But knowing what you know about the likelyhood of a plane crash does that stop you from taking flights? You have no idea what the outcome will be, you might get nervous but you push through it.

The problem of her not being able to love is just that...her problem. My WH has so many issues that he doesn't understand them himself, and because I LOVE HIM I need to let him work on himself before I can ever expect him to be able to love me. I am scared as hell that if and when he comes back it will be the same ol' same ol. That I will not get the love I have been craving for years, that he will still make me feel insignificant. But that is a chance I must take.
If it doesn't change then I will at least be able to say I gave it (him) my best shot.

She made small talk with you and didn't start yelling or getting angry. But it seems like that disappointed you and you wanted more. You were looking for something to hold on to....don't, it's not there and it won't be for some time.

If Plan B sends her running, let her do it. personally I don't think she is strong enough. She won't even go for IC, I don't think she would see an attorney.

Here is a thought. Can you make and appointment for IC, and ask her to come along so the counselor can get a good understanding of what YOUR (as in you) situation is. Tell her it is for you to help you deal with stress, not sleeping, anxiety etc over the relationship. Tell her it is not MC. If she goes maybe she will hear something that hits home with her and puts her at ease enough to want to get help herself. If you go see a psychiatrist you can ask them questions about AD's for yourself and she can just listen. Tell her she doesn't need to be there for the whole time and she doesn't have to say anything. I don't know if this would work, but maybe as a last ditch effort. yes this is a control manuever on your part, and she might see it as such and not bite...but you will never know. Then I say do the Plan B.

You said it yourself, you feel in such a better place when you are not dragged down by what she is doing/saying. So what is my message to both you and I..."Let go , let God"

Lets dig a little....I know your WW is not forthcoming about her EN's. But over the last 24 years what did you fight about the most. Did she say anything to you about..."You never...." or " You always...." I am in the same boat tqt, believe me. My WH has decided that he is going to work this whole thing out in his head, without any discussion with me. Like my IC says , I will get the end product and have no idea how my WH got there. I will be clueless then as I am cluless now. I asked my IC ehat my responsibility in my marriage was, because everything seems to focus on taking care of yourself. He said it is our responsibility to know what makes the other person happy and what makes them sad and discontent. Then it is our responsibility to avoid the actions that would make them unhappy and practice those that bring out the good feelings. That is all we an do, how the other person actually responds is actually out of our control. And the decision to act or not act is directly related to whether we even care about the other person or not. Does you WW care about you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The problem of her not being able to love is just that...her problem. My WH has so many issues that he doesn't understand them himself, and because I LOVE HIM I need to let him work on himself before I can ever expect him to be able to love me. I am scared as hell that if and when he comes back it will be the same ol' same ol. That I will not get the love I have been craving for years, that he will still make me feel insignificant. But that is a chance I must take.
If it doesn't change then I will at least be able to say I gave it (him) my best shot.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Homer, I agree... except that her problem becomes a problem for me.
I would've walked on water for her. But, for better or worse, she forced me into the position I'm in now. I didn't have any say in the matter. I didn't plan to be as "moved on" by this time. I'm in some weird place right now where I know I love her, but I know I'll be ok without her.

For the longest time, I was in some hellish place where I couldn't look back, couldn't look forward, and the present was nothing but raw, relentless pain.
Now, I have more control over looking back; I don't have as much desire to. I CAN look forward, and there's a clearer vision of my life without her. And the raw pain of NOW is getting quite dull -- unless I allow myself to think too much, in the "wrong" way.

And like you, Homer, I'll also be able to say I gave it my best shot. I think I can say that now.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She made small talk with you and didn't start yelling or getting angry. But it seems like that disappointed you and you wanted more. You were looking for something to hold on to....don't, it's not there and it won't be for some time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I was disappointed, and I probably wanted more. Yes, I DID want more -- I wanted SOMETHING other than smalltalk and sarcastic little digs from her.
As soon as I saw that I was going to have to carry the conversation, it became more of an inconvenience to me than anything else. I was thinking to myself: "so.. what are you doing here? I have lots of things on my to-do list today..."


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If Plan B sends her running, let her do it. personally I don't think she is strong enough. She won't even go for IC, I don't think she would see an attorney.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You might be right. Although she has a real bad mean streak in her... an official Plan B might awaken the beast within.... but I'm ready for that. Seen it before...

Hmmm... on second thought, she'd have an easier time going to an attorney, than IC.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is a thought. Can you make and appointment for IC, and ask her to come along so the counselor can get a good understanding of what YOUR (as in you) situation is. Tell her it is for you to help you deal with stress, not sleeping, anxiety etc over the relationship. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting idea, but ya know what? I couldn't do it. She wounded and weakened me to the core, and never really cared about doing so - fog or no fog, OM or no OM. She knew how badly she was hurting me. I recovered, in spite of her. At this stage, I can't pretend to be "weaker" and down-and-out just to get her to IC. In fact, unless she gets WORSE, I'm done trying with the IC thing. She will have to figure it out on her own. She MUST start taking responsibility for her own well-being, happiness, health, etc. OM, the [censored], won't help her. He obviously doesn't care enough, or has his head up his @ss far enough so he can't see that WW is not a happy person. WW's family is useless in that regard, also. So not only SHOULD WW figure this out for herself, and ACT on it -- she's put herself in a situation where she now HAS to do it on her own.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said it yourself, you feel in such a better place when you are not dragged down by what she is doing/saying. So what is my message to both you and I..."Let go , let God"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But over the last 24 years what did you fight about the most. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We never fought. She has an honorary degree in Conflict Avoidance. She admitted both of those things before she left.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does you WW care about you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not sure how to answer that question(?) I've only known the woman for a short time, after all -- so how would I know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

tqt, sounds like you are RIPE for Plan B. And if you don't send her the letter, I'm flying out to PA and kicking your A$$! Just kidding. It is your decision to make, I will support you no matter what.

But, at this point, I think Plan B is needed NOT for just you, but to give the M any chance of survival. Because you are losing your love for her, at a rapid rate.

I have no 2x4's for you, my friend. You are just stumbling around in this muck like the rest of us. We all do the best we can, in the situations we find ourselves in.

I think you have already noticed for yourself the "upside" of Plan B. You won't be suddenly jolted out of your nice comfy zone you find after some time away from her. It might knock her off her fence, one way or the other, and right now you aren't sure which one you are hoping for.

It all seems good to me.

I think the reason you feel the way you do, tqt, is because it yourself is protecting yourself. Your mind has come to the realization that you might not be M'd to your WW for the rest of your life. So of course it is going to help you process that possibility and let you be able to move forward in your life.

By the time my H came back home, I had very similar feelings to yours. I was even getting excited about beginning such a new chapter in my life. Scared too, because I wasn't sure about the dating (if we got D'd), since I've been with my H since I was 16, but excited, too.

Which was a HUGE step in the right direction, because in the beginning, I was like you ~ stuck in some horrible place of raw pain, afraid to look back, afraid to look forward, afraid to even keep my darned eyes OPEN at all! I just wanted to bury my head in the sand and let it all pass me by somehow.

The day I was going to send my Plan B letter, the day my H walked out on our 3rd MC session, is the day H's IC called me up and asked me to sit in on their next session. I told him I was done, I was sending this letter, blah blah. He asked me to wait a week, come to the next session, so he could help my H on a deeper level.

I waited, fuming, GLAD to NOT CONTACT him, and limiting HIS contact with ME as much as possible (not easy with finances and 2 kids), for that week. And that session, his IC became our MC. And 3 sessions later H was back home.

The universe works in mysterious ways. BUT, my Plan B was on the way. I was just DONE. I did not want to be involved in HIS chaos anymore. I wanted to be as stable and happy as I could, while he figured out whatever he needed to figure out.

Hang in there! And you don't have to worry about your crying confession not being macho. Every single member here has cried their eyes out, and we have some pretty macho men. But you already know you are OK ~ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

{{{{{tqt}}}}}

Spidey

On my way out the door to a badly needed workout. I promise not to hit on more than 2 or 3 women at the gym.

Wait...make that 3 or 4.

For now, two things:

1) WW just called and left a message on my cell phone.
Soon as I heard it was her, I chose NOT to listen to it... until POST-workout.

2) Spidey -- You Are Great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

tqt,

You are getting very good advice...take it. If you are able to detach and enjoy your life as you say, then it is time for plan B. I think you will then find it obvious which direction to move once you have done that and let plan B act for awhile.

If she files, then you have your answer. If she does not, but does not end A, you have your answer. If she gets help and then ends A, you have hope.

I personally think you are on the right track and you are right there are people out there that do know how to love, and respect someone. Your lack of fear in that regard is well founded. So work the plans as given, you are ready for the next step.

God Bless,

JL

tqt,

Hi, it's been a while, but I would have to agree with everyone also. It sounds like you've come to your Recovery point. I also have reached my point. I too know that I'll be okay and am actually looking to start my new life. Course I'm not in Plan B as of yet. My Lawyer has been trying to serve my WW with Legal Sep papers, but has been unable to track her down.

It looks like you've become stronger and have been able to detach from you WW since the last time I posted to you... good on ya! I agree with the Plan B, what have you got to loose? Your already onto a new and better tqt, if your WW finally comes around then good (if thats what you want) if not then you'll be okay and will be having fun with the ladies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stay strong and focused on you, as it seems your already doing.

Native

I'm... speechless, I think. I HATE when that happens... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It just hits me SO hard... there are SO many GOOD PEOPLE here, and so much pain, all concentrated in one place. At times I'm overwhelmed by that one little fact. Is there anywhere else on this planet with such a combination?

---------

Loooong workout this evening, "slim-pickens" in the ladies department (ooops, sorry for the commentary), followed by a stop at my sorta-favorite watering hole on the way home. A couple of very nice Labatt's (it's the B vitamins, of course!) and watched the 2nd half of the b'ball game -- "our" team that WW and I have ties to (won't give any names, but we're up there in the NCAA rankings, OF course!), and have watched "vigorously" for 24 years. And YES, we won...

Listened to her voicemail on the way home. She talked for almost 2 full minutes about the exercise equipment, said "I wanted to say thanks for checking it out" then when on and on about the details of the thing... then made it a point, I think, to say she was on her way to the regularly-scheduled-monthly-dinner-that-follows-the-regularly-scheduled-new-employee-orientation that WW is an integral part of. Same dinner thing that after D-Day she agreed not to go to for a while, as OM and her both attended off and on (a group of employees rotate the dinner part of it; there's always two of the group that accompany the new employees. I think those dinners helped to enable the A).

Yep, at one point in the past, post D-Day, I think she really did try to get things straightened out re: OM and the A, but... it's all history now, so...

ANYway... listening to her message... WHY is she telling me all this stuff, ALMOST the same tone of voice, content, etc. that she would've used 5, 10, 15 years ago?

I apologize for rambling. And I'll stop right now, after declaring to the world one thing I figured out this evening.

I consider myself a strong person, and a person with a great amount of conviction, willpower, principles, and a helluva lot of love and caring to give. That's what I put into our marriage. But I realized tonight that I've been so neglected, and taken SO MUCH CRAP from the woman I WANTED to be with until the day I die, that now when a member of the female species so much as smiles at me, or talks nicely to me...that I pretty much melt inside... and that's DAMN sad commentary.

And STILL... at the same time... I wonder to myself... when I'm gone from her life forever... who will protect her, take care of her, be there for her in the worst of times... who does she have left?

And that makes me sad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And STILL... at the same time... I wonder to myself... when I'm gone from her life forever... who will protect her, take care of her, be there for her in the worst of times... who does she have left? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know. I felt so very sad for my H when he was wayward. For someone who had finally found "true love," he sure did look like crap all the time. I could see it so clearly, and others could, too. But not him. And I couldn't help him anymore. He didn't trust that I had his best interests at heart anymore, he didn't value my opinion/thoughts/feelings anymore. It was so sad all the way around. And just soooo weird!

In such a short amount of time, the whole thing had turned upside down, AND inside out, then the whole thing LANDED on my HEAD! Ugh. This whole infidelity business is horrible. And tragic. I still have scars, deep hurts that I don't know if they will ever fully heal. Sometimes, some memories, some days, I am back to D-day on the inside, my world falling apart, broken, shattered.

Sorry, I am feeling a bit melancoly tonight, as I am tired, me thinks. Long day of physical labor, and I actually took time out for me today and took a walk with the sun on my face. It was wonderful. Now I'm beat! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sleep tight, tqt. Chat at you tomorrow.

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually took time out for me today and took a walk with the sun on my face.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's to many more days in the sun for you... you deserve every single one... and then some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Spidey, Isn't physical exhaustion great? I need some desperately..haven't had a good night sleep in days.

Tqt.. I hear you. Isn't it the oddest when you WS reaches out to you and acts like nothing has happened!!!!WTF?? Then the next time they flip to the old alien abducted nut job. The waivering of their thought process is so excruciating.
My H is back to the cold, little contact WH. I think that when they have contact with the OP they go through withrawal and guilt symptoms and then project that onto the BS. Its all garbage and we are left cleaning up the mess.
Right now I wish you and Spidey would come hear and duct tape me to my chair. I want to LB so bad because I like you have just about had it.

Supposedly my WH is going to be making a decision whether to come back home and work on the M by the end of this month. Something in me doesn't want to wait because I am afraid it is not going to be what I want. I don't know what the hell to do.

ALl we can do is lean on each other and have the old pro's like Spidey and Lemonman tell us like it is.

Hey Native...please update us. I've been thinking about you. Where are your kids?

Spidey, Homer, JL, Native...

Thanks for your support... every word that everyone of you has written is important to me, and appreciated!

I'm officially in Plan F. "F" as in Flounder.

Flounder \Floun"der\, v. To fling the limbs and body, as in making efforts to move; to struggle, as a horse in the mire, or as a fish on land; to roll, toss, and tumble; to flounce.

I don't intend to stay there for too long, but feel I need to take a step back and survey the situation.

I agree with Plan B for the most part -- maybe even 110% -- but I'm not sure the textbook Plan B and PBL is entirely appropriate, for various reasons......

TQT..not sure what tqt means but I think it should be TDF...Too Damn Funny. All I can say is that you've got a boat load of humor and that will take you a long way. You make me smile every time I read your posts. I appreciate the laughter amongst the agony.

tqt, I'm sorry you are floudering. It's no fun feeling like a horse stuck in mud, I tell ya! I think it is interesting that you used that word, floundering, though. As in the struggling, rolling around part.

Because before I came to my calm acceptance before H came home, I feel like that is what I was doing. Struggling against something that I didn't want, couldn't avoid, couldn't change ~ perhaps railing against the fact that I felt I had no power in the situation.

I believe I described mine as "thrashing," though. And I thrashed vigorously for many weeks. Then, somehow, I came around that corner, to calm acceptance. I accepted that even though my life didn't look the way I wanted it to, it was MY life. Just accepting where I was at, not looking back to how things were, or ahead to what may or may not be in the future. Just sitting in my space, and getting to know it a bit. Does that sound strange? The shift from looking all around me, to looking INSIDE of me.

And I realized I LOVED being home alone, no kids, no H, reading a book. Not having to cook/clean/anything for anyone besides myself. I realized when I did visit people, I felt relaxed and not rushed. I enjoyed my time so much more, because I was in the moment. I was autonomous for the first time since I was 16.

I couldn't change where I was, so why not explore it and learn some stuff about myself? Maybe a bit like, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

You are doing just fine, tqt. You are processing, feeling, figuring stuff out, IMO.

Homer, it is my very strong opinion that you should begin taking your focus off your WH and what he is/is not going to do at the end of the month. At this point, no, I don't think you will want to hear his decision. But also understand that what he feels today, or at the end of the month, is not set in stone. Look how his feelings have shifted one way in such a short period of time ~ they can shift back just as quickly.

However, they rarely do "on schedule." Let's start thinking of ways that you can look at this thing from a different perspective, so you don't feel like your WH is wiping the floor with your head, OK? Because I don't know if they do it on purpose, or if it is just the nature of the WS-beast, but he will take you on a ride ~ as rough and as long as you allow it. It is up to you to decide to get off HIS "ride from he!!."

Have you guys read Zizzycool's thread about her arrival to her own safe place? After 15 months on her WH's ride? Very inspiring. Let us not wait 15 months, K? Everyone takes their own path, everyone's journey takes a different amount of time, but we can also learn from others, and get valuable insights that can speed up our own personal recovery.

Chat at you later.

Spidey

As of right now, here's what I'm thinking...

I'm too far gone for Plan B. I don't think my head and heart are in the right place anymore for the standard Plan B letter, or anything close.

I've realized that none of this (my analyzing, processing, planning... and any resultant Plan B or any other plan) makes any sense anyway... the odds of her quitting her job are zero. Her job is all she has.

I can either force the issue -- in a sense, give her an ultimatum -- or I can wait for ? days/weeks until she contacts me or shows up again, and then have a talk with her.

We're closing in on D-Day Anniversary. That's enough time for her to figure something out about herself, and ACT on it accordingly (other than moving out and leaving me in limbo).


It just ain't gonna happen....


As far as her coming back, even if she wanted to... it's not like I intentionally raised the bar, but it's definitely higher than it was. That's her "fault" -- not mine. The result of her own failure to deal with reality, to face herself, and to treat me with one iota of respect in this whole mess. I know how it all works -- the WS fog, turmoil, pain, selfishness. But I was there for her through it all, and she knew that. She's had lots of time to figure something out, or at least show a hint that she's even trying to.

For her to come back.. for me to LET her come back... I owe it to myself to "require" a list of conditions. Not to be spiteful, revengeful... more common sense to me, than anything else.

1) she quits her job
2) end contact with OM
3) she gets immediate IC
4) we start MC soon, but not immediately (she needs IC first)
5) we make plans to move, in part to get away from our house which now has too many painful memories, and in part to help get her geographically distanced from the OB (Other [censored] -- has a nicer ring to it than "other man")
6) she gets tested for STD's.
7) she agrees to come to the house immediately and help me clean the damn place <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (that was a joke)

It just ain't gonna happen.

And that list doesn't even touch on the "intangibles" -- I need to spend my life with someone loving, caring, giving, affectionate, warm. Sadly, very very sadly, I've lost almost all of my faith that she can be those things.

But I'm ok with it, no matter what. The hardest part for me, I think, will be the process of finalizing the end of such a huge part of my life. I guess THE biggest part of my life, no matter what my future holds. I most likely will never spend as much time with anyone as I have with my WW. And then, always wondering -- for the rest of my life -- if she's ok. Always wondering if she's figured things out enough to make herself truly happy.

And I still can't even believe that all this has happened! I still can't believe she did this to me, to us!

I have to figure out a way to get through all this, without feeling like I'm abandoning her.
Damn, that's stupid... "abandoning her?"
But I worry about her... she has no one else who cares enough to see that she's not happy...

Call it presumptuous, but... I don't think she's figured out yet that I'll be COMPLETELY GONE from her life FOREVER.

All for now. Thanks for listening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just changed back to Plan B.

As in Bailout.

I checked my messages at home, and there was a message from the kennel: "Just calling to confirm your boarding appointment for (poor little doggie 1) and (poor little doggie 2) for Saturday."

The dogs live with WW/STBXW, not me.

So... WW/STBXW is obviously taking another getaway weekend with OB.

I'm planning on calling her this evening to give her the message from the kennel (of course I don't really need to). I'll confirm that she's going away with OB. Then I'm going to ask her if she's going alone to Fla, or is OB going with her (week's vacation; visiting her mother).

Then begin silently preparing for D.

Looks like the game's over.

Tqt...We must be living parallel lives. I think right now all we can do is silently prepare. All the good people at MB can encourage us to hang in there, but you and I both know that the ball is going to drop probably sooner than later.

You and I are hanging out trying to be the bet thing that ever happened to WS, while we know that they hold our hearts and our lives in their hands. My gut says its over and he is just too damned scared to admit it. But he can't continue this charade much longer than I can take it.

We will suffer in silence together. When it happens you will be the first to hear my tears.
And I will be hear for you.