Oh, honey, my H knows exactly what my thoughts/feelings/beliefs are with this. But knowing that doesn't change his mind/feelings/beliefs. And I am OK with that. We have come to a place where we are ready to let go of each other if it is so that we can both explore the lives that make sense to us now.


This is different than A stuff, in that there is no lying or deceit or betrayal. He is being very open and honest with me. I don't like a lot of the stuff he has to say, but that is waaaaay different than lying. I can accept just about anything, as long as it is coming from a place of honesty.


After talking to him yesterday (he is our former and now future MC ~ both times starting as H's IC), I think we probably have irreconcilable differences. However, I will not blame this IC for guiding my H through his feelings. If my H goes to him with feelings and thoughts, this IC is not responsible for the outcome of my H exploring these thoughts/ideas in a safe place.

And honestly, if I blame anyone, I lose all my power. I feel helpless and trapped by others' actions. Right now, I feel very powerful. My H's thoughts/feelings do not have the power to hurt me unless I allow them to, unless I see it as an attack on me (which it isn't), or as an inadequacy on my part (which it isn't).

I am going to be fine either way. My H loves me and wants to take care of me no matter what we decide to do. We both want the very best for our kids, and have agreed to do whatever it takes to be the best co-parents ever. Dr. Phil says that children would rather come from a broken home than live in one ~ and I truly believe that.

I will always love my H. Even if we are D'd. And he will always love me. I am not afraid (right now) of this part of my life. 2 years ago, I couldn't say the same thing. If nothing else, these past 2 years have enabled us to get to the point that we are honestly ready to freely choose in or out of our M.

I am actually excited about the coming changes. I have been struggling as well lately. I have been diligently working on myself, but felt like I was spinning my wheels. The atmosphere we have been living in has been stifling to me. After becoming hyper-aware, I realize I feel more alive now than I have for many months. I am present in each moment, I am more caring and compassionate. I don't know what that means, but I plan on finding out!

Thanks for your support and concern. I understand all of it. And I am happy that your H is starting to pay attention to his feelings, and telling you about them. I truly believe that is the first step toward change.

Spidey

Oh Spidey.
I feel so, so sad reading this. I don't know what to say.
You sound so strong and... coming up with no better way to say it, for which I apologize -- almost too strong, and you're making me nervous!
Is stoic the right word, perhaps? "Stoic" can be good, but...
hope you know what I'm trying to say.......
At the same time, I admire your strength. I really do. But please feel it's ok to come here and write and write and write... your own advice to me and lots of others here.
And try to remember that there are SO many people that care about you, and are thinking and worrying about you.

Yes, I'm in Denver.
I'm a bit out-of-sorts here, and it's little harder to think, and therefore to post... but I'll be checking in frequently. Please tell us how you're doing, as soon as you have time.

Edited to say...
I agree with Faithful. The IC is highly suspect, IMVVVHO. Again IMVHO, your H is pretty mixed up (I do NOT buy this polyamorous stuff), and just because the IC is making him "feel better about himself" -- to me, that's just as much of a Big Red Flag (about the IC) as anything else.

You are so protective! You are so sweet. I really am doing OK. I feel like I am out from underneath an oppressive thumb that I didn't even realize was on me until it came off. Every now and again, at weird times, my fear comes up, and my sadness. But for the most part, I am OK.

And I will be OK, no matter what. You know that! I am the Slayer, after all. I already fought that battle, I don't have to do it again. And it would be cool to move to another level if possible with H, and it would be cool to be on my own for the second time in my life (first, being our separation). Except this time, if we split, it would be totally different. It would be planned, and done with compassion and caring and us both 100% in agreement about each and every detail.

If H believes in Polyamory, then he does. I don't. Perhaps we can find a middle ground with boundaries, perhaps we cannot. That is the reality of the sitch. I cannot force him to see another IC, who did a really great job for us as a couple last time. I cannot change the way he feels/thinks/believes. His choices are his alone, and he will have consequences.

All change, IMO, is scary and hard. Growth hurts! And I know that now, and I am OK with it. Because I know if I hang on through the hard times, there will be sunny days just around the corner. I truly believe this.

Are you going to stop posting to me now because you think I'm the biggest sap in the whole world???

I truly am OK. Right now, I am OK. When I'm not, I certainly will come here and write and write and write. That is just how I process!

How are you out-of-sorts in Denver? What, if anything, in particular is coming up for you? Make sure you drink lots of water with the elevation change.

Spidey

Spidey, I want to say this with care and the best of intentions...

I could be wrong but I get the strong feeling that your H is hiding behind his so called "honesty". I too do not buy the polyamorous stuff, I think he has been developing feelings or having an EA with his co-worker and his excuse is the polyamory. I truly believe something is terribly wrong here. I KNOW you will be ok either way, but hon something is just not right. Are you getting good feedback on your thread at the other site? I hope so, you are such a treasure.

Spidey... how are you?

"OK, so, are you ready to have your world rocked? Well, my H has decided that he is polyamorous."

Spidey - Please, please don't make me cyber-slap you. Put his polyamorous [censored] out the door.

I don't know if your husband is having a mid-life crisis or what, but he takes the cake.

Sorry, I'm not feeling very MB like tonight.

tqt, I am doing OK. Faithful, thanks for your concern. Believer, I understand what you are saying.

This is certainly not what I would have chosen to go through, but it is what it is. We will just have to work through it and see where we come out on the other side.

I drank some wine tonight at a party, and am not feeling very well. I'll check back in tomorrow.

Spidey

I hope everyone is gearing up for a Merry Christmas! I am doing my best living in the moment, the "right now." Because we just don't know what tomorrow will bring.

We are getting ready to have our Holiday party with friends, and then we have lots of Santa work to do tonight. *sigh* With all that has been going on lately, I was pretty far behind on my shopping. I just finished today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I don't remember ever shopping on Christmas Eve, although I know many people who do. It wasn't that bad, but not as much selection.

Anyway, I'll check in tomorrow.

Spidey

I'm with believer. Being "polyamorous" sounds like a good way to excuse away unacceptable (to me, anyway) behavior. "I can't help it, it's just the way I am...."

Just a lurker's 2 cents.

Merry Christmas, tqt! And all the other "lurkers" out there.

I hope we all spend happy, relaxing days with our friends and family.

I love you all.

Spidey

And a Merry Christmas to you, Spidey :-)

Hope you're ok. Been thinking about you!

Well, here I am doing my "write write write" thingie, because I don't see how this could possibly ever work out.

I know what he thinks/feels has nothing to do with me, but it is so easy to let myself begin feeling inadequate. But then I remember the "all" of me, and wonder how he could possibly think there could be anything better? Anything more? Like I think he thinks there is.

And the thing that kills me is that he doesn't see anything lacking in our M. In fact, one of the reasons he could be feeling this way is because of how "content" and "satisfying" our M is.

That is the strangest part to me.

The part that makes me so sad, and mad, is that under our agreement that he would work, and I would take care of our boys, I have waited for my career. And now I feel like if I still want that career, I am going to have to work that much harder to get it. Probably longer, too. Because I have always wanted to still do the "Mom" thing. And I will have to work more to support myself, plus take fewer classes, probably at night and on the weekends. Just my BS will probably take 5 years now, and that doesn't include anything that I could use to begin my career!

H thinks he will support me through my school. Which is a very nice thought. But there is a finite amount of $$$ to work with. AND, if he breaks our agreement now, changes his mind (again), why am I going to want to count on him keeping this other agreement? That just seems like setting myself up for more heartache and disappointment.

I wish I already had my career. I wish I could afford to be separate from him right now. Because right now, today, I feel like I am done. Could be different in 5 minutes after I have had my coffee, could be different tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I just want him GONE.

Good news, back on the Infidelity Diet, I have lost 5 pounds. Not bad for 2 parties and a big Christmas dinner.

Check in when you can, tqt. I hope you had a good day yesterdsay.

Spidey

Spidey - There is something wrong with your husband. I don't know if it is depression, a mid-life crisis or what, but he is not thinking right.

I hope you will figure out a way to continue your education. I firmly believe that the highest calling for a woman is raising her children. I was lucky enough to be able to take 7 years off work to stay home with my boys.

However, there is no way that you should put your dreams on hold while your husband waffles around.

My sister went to Harvard Law School when she was 43. She did it with a combination of grants and loans. She is now a partner in a prestigious law firm and loves her job. She came out owing $100,000., but has paid it all back with her higher pay.

I worry about you, because if you sacrifice too much for this man, you will end up resenting him.

There may be an underlying condition that is causing his behavior. I thought he was all "fixed", but apparently not. My prayers are with you and your family.

Thanks, believer. I know what all you say is true. I don't know if there is anything clinically wrong with him ~ but he truly may be on that very fringe outside of the mainstream. I am just sorry that he was too afraid to face it himself to tell me. Because I have made a lot of decisions based on what he thought his feelings/beliefs were. And now he is telling me that they have been the way he feels now all along, he just wasn't able to face it himself. And now he wants to understand himself.

I know I can still do everything I want to do. It will just be harder, IMO, and take me longer. I have been at this mothering business since I was 18. I was really looking forward to being able to start doing what I wanted to do.

But, I am probably just seeing it from a very narrow, fearful spot right now. You and I both know there are better days to be had. I'll just have to pull myself up by my Birkinstock straps and carry on. Again.

We have MC tomorrow. I'll post after that to let everyone know where I am at then.

Spidey

Spidey - In MC I think I would tell him that YOU are in the midst of a mid-life crisis, and intend to finish your education. See how he likes that.

After reading his IM log with this coworker last night, I am sure it is an EA. There was MUCH talk about non work things, there were several offers of going to lunch with each other alone (which I requested was not intentionally done when we first reconciled, because I believe boundaries need to be set with opposite sex co-workers), and the kicker for me ~ they chatted a LOT on IM about non work stuff for over an hour one night while H was in class at school.

What I believe has happened at this point with the information I have now, and the stuff I have learned here and elsewhere ~ and I am open to opinions about my analysis ~ My H has started an EA with this coworker, probably in reaction to not having a need met by me at home. Instead of talking to me, or being able to recognize that this need wasn't being met, he just let this other lady meet it for him.

Now, he is convinced that polyamory is for him. Even though 18 months ago, while we were still counseling weekly and in very good places with ourselves and each other, and seemingly very clear with himself and all going on, my H was POSITIVE that polyamory was simply his rationalization/justification for his A.

Now, after working long hours, being tired and stressed, things not going well between us, and after becoming emotionally involved/attached to this coworker, I am hearing the polyamory thing again. Going off this information, I am inclined to believe that he was clear 18 months ago, and he has become fog-bound now.

I have heard fantastic accounts of his feelings/beliefs/thoughts lately. A lot like I did last time. I have even been told it is my fault that he is having an EA with her, because I obviously wasn't meeting his needs! At this time, I began driving him back to his office, and he quickly changed his tune.

My strategy? Go to MC, attempt to get to the bottom of this whole thing, and make my decisions once I can uncover what I am dealing with. I know this MC will call my H on this stuff, because he did last time. Unfortunately, he has been dealing with someone who is already involved, and too frightened to admit it to himself ~ let alone anyone else.

My boundaries are set, I will not encourage/engage his chaos, and I am going to begin going to church again.

What do you all think about all that?

Hi Spidey,
Got home late last night. It's good to be home, I guess, although the house is still empty <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. I haven't slept in at least 5 or 6 nights, for some reason, so I'm running on fumes at the moment... (so be patient with me :-))

Could you clarify that? Do you mean the MC doesn't know anything about this new EA?

Uhhh... so, this is your fault???
And your H isn't responsible for his actions? After all the two of you have been through...
in the process of recovery/MC/getting closer/learning together/etc...
he learned enough about meeting each other's EN's to blame it on you for NOT meeting some need,
but,
he did NOT learn enough to recognize an unmet need of his own, and then allowing himself to go elsewhere... sorta involuntarily?

Don't doubt yourself, Spidey!!

Yes, that is what I mean. I think the MC might have been under the same impression I was about H's R with this coworker. Until I read the IM's last night, I didn't think she had anything to do with this whole thing. Now I know they are both in it. She might not be aware she is in it, as denial is powerful and the slippery slope very slippery and slopey. But they seem to be in the same place.

No, I am not responsible for him having an EA ~ even though he yelled that at me today in the car. But I am 50% responsible for the state of my M. Especially after all the training/learning I've been through.

Sorry you haven't slept much. I do kinda know that feeling.

We have an hour to MC. We'll see. This is going to be a very long and hard road ~ again. I will need whatever you can give: prayers, incantations, spells, thoughts, etc.

Emailing or IMing opposite sex should have been one of his boundaries.

Does he know that you are aware that he is IMing females?

Susan

Even if he has a character flaw and labels it polyamory?

Susan