Spidey, this is painful to just READ about -- I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Before I checked in here, I was ready to pounce on your H and shake him around a little.
Then I read his emails in your last post. And I almost felt sorry for him because
he's so %@^!&#% clueless.
Then I read the emails AGAIN, and now I'm ready to kill him.

FOR example... the 2nd time thru his email, this jumped out at me.
Really??? It hurts him so badly that he can't keep himself from having lunch with the woman?

He's floating around in some major fantasy bubble, Spidey. I still don't believe the polyamory crap.

It almost sounds like he's still flying high from his (first) little fling. Now there's another woman (he thinks, at least) is attracted to him, blah blah blah... is this some adolescent ego trip?

He says he can't stand hurting you, but he continues to rip you apart.
The only thing I get from what he wrote is that he's exactly like every other WS -- selfish, and clueless.

Spidey..... WHY is this same IC/MC still in the picture?? What good is he doing YOU or your M???

Another thought -- I was thinking Plan B, and Pep asked the question. Is it too late (for YOU?)

Y o u r _ h u s b a n d _ n e e d s _ t o _ h a v e _ h i s _ b u b b l e _ b u r s t.

Every day that goes by, your resentment is growing by leaps and bounds -- isn't it?
If something doesn't happen (towards recovery) very soon (yesterday), will you be able to deal with the resentment (let alone the trust issue) in the long term, regardless of what happens?

I was thinking today about how hard it must be for you to concentrate on anything -- your school work -- and having been there, I feel SO bad for you. And then I thought... I hope this doesn't mess up your school stuff, because it will serve you well for the rest of your life. Will your H do the same????

Did I say this already?
Y o u r _ h u s b a n d _ n e e d s _ t o _ h a v e _ h i s _ b u b b l e _ b u r s t.

Spidey, is Plan B an option???
Your H is too old to be jerking you and your kids around!
And you are SO much better than this.... deserving of SO much more.

Maybe you should let your H figure out what life without YOU is all about -- and I see a really hard fall for him, but maybe that's exactly what needs to happen.

I'm sorry for rambling, and I'm sorry if I've been insensitive, and said hurtful things.
I'm just really angry. Please keep your head up, my friend.

Spidey - How can we help you? What can we do for you? We know how you feel and you know how we feel. With that out of the way, how can we best help and support you? I originally typed a long post about what your WH is doing, but I don't think that's what you need. I want to focus on helping you, not getting out my anger towards your WH. Please let me know how I can help you. One thing you can count on is that I am praying for you, your WH, and your family.

SpiderSlayer---

it is plan B time

his email is about nothing but

f e e l i n g s

what is missing?

courage
loyalty
honor
fidelity
leadership
conviction

please excuse me Spidey --- I would not want your H (as screwed up as he is today) leading my son in any capacity as a scout leader .... he currently has no values that qualify him to be a leader of a group of young men .... MUCH LESS in a leadership position of your family

Let me ask you this ... WHERE IS HIS FATHER???

A MAN did not write that terrible email --- a MAN provides leadership and strength to his family ---

This is Plan B time ... and don't delay.

I am so very very sorry ....

tqt

beautiful post by the way

((( tqt )))

Spide:

I'm reading this stuff, and trying 2 put my finger on what I'm thinking while I'm reading it. What's going on here?

And I have this overwhelming feeling that there's this conscious or subconscious manipulation going on. Like he's wanting so badly 2 escalate this EA with Lunch Woman in2 a PA - and he's wanting so hard for you 2 somehow approve of it because he's being honest - he's even EXPECTING that you'll "come around" 2 his 2isted way of thinking...

Like breaking the sound barrier with the X-1. Sucker shakes violently as you approach it, then it's smooth sailing once your beyond it.

Is that what he thinks will happen, I'm wondering?

Any chance he'd come here and post his own thread? I've got some thoughts for him that I'd like 2 share...

-ol' 2long

tqt, thank you. I get that you really understand my pain, and it is frustrating to you that you cannot make it better. I know that is your nature. Please know that although I share my pain here with you all, I am not going to crumble and die because of it. I know what I am capable of, what I can do, and I am going to get through this just fine. And I do appreciate your big-brother type of post. I don't have any brothers or sisters (well, I kind of do, but that happens when your mother has been married 5 times and your father 3 times).

kloe, your post is wonderful. Thank you. You are right, I know all about how "wrong" my H is acting, the things he is saying. I cannot tell you how unconditional your post came across to me, and hwo it reflects back to me the purity of your heart. To be honest, just listening (reading) my stuff, and refelcting back to me what it seems I need at that point, is the very best anyone can do for anyone. Again, Thank You.

Pep, I'm all done with Plans. H knows everything that I do, he knows how I feel. And yet he persists in what he is doing ~ at the cost of ME. This is the exact opposite of what I want in a M! It's not even close. I don't know if he broke something on the inside with his A two years ago, or if he discovered something about himself two years ago that is socially unacceptable (and Spidey Unacceptable) or what ~ but the end result is the same. Maybe I took him back one too many times. I don't know. Maybe if I had some of these answers, it would be easier to make this decision. Again, I don't know.

But decision time is acomin'.

Spidey

Exactly! This is what I feel is happening, as well.


Heck no! He knows he'd get flamed. Even if you didn't, others would. He won't even post over on the "other" board that is known for more tolerance and respect.

Thanks for stopping in 2long.

Spidey

Spidey - It sounds like he needs some medical help to me. Is he getting care? It sounds like he might be near another break down. Hope you can step back and detach and realize that this is NOT about you.

2Long said:



totally my take on this as well.... and what comes across overwhelmingly to me is this --- in Spidey-H's email he paints himself as pathetic --- and the manipulated response he is seeking from Spidey is ~~~> [b]"Oh , you poor guy. I won't ask anything brave or strong from you."

they tolerate polygamy

"but that happens when your mother has been married 5 times and your father 3 times"

That's not marriage, that's a hobby.

I'm sorry your H is afraid of us. I would like 2 give him a message. A message that I have great confidence in, after having been here and read here for 4 years now.

He is losing you. I'm certain of it.

He won't realize it until he's gone off 2 have a fling with Lunch Woman or some other fool. And by then you will be completely unavailable 2 him.


-ol' 2long

Spidey,

I have not been on the boards for awhile...but when I am here....I always look for your post. I stopped in today and was excited when I saw your name on the responses....when I pulled up the post....I was speechless when I found out what has been going on in your world.....I am so sorry that H has gone off into his own world again.....I KNOW...and I mean KNOW that you have done so much everything to work on this M and fill his needs.

You know that you are a shining example and inspiration to me. I do not know what to say......it seems that sometimes very generous and forgiving souls such as yourself and maybe a little me....attract those kinds of people that are self-absorbed such as my H.

I fully understand and support the decision time acomin....I was there just before the end of the year...did not want to spoil Xmas, but I said to H....you are unhappy and I am unhappy.....shall we get a D? It was a defining moment....because H could not just play victim and blame me for all. I just couldn't absorb more of his [email]cr@p.....[/email]

Today, my friend, I am just sending support.....because I wanted to believe that you were ok.....now that I know you are hurting....I am very down for you...and am here for you and will continue to keep looking for you.....and sending prayers your way.....:(

Sister Spidey, I've put some thought into this.

If you were my sister...

1) I would've had a few conversations with my BIL by now. Probably fruitless ones, but I'd sure try.

2) I'd be trying to convince you that you (to put it nicely) deserve better, and...

3) I'd be checking in on you to see how you're doing, and reminding you that your big huge family out here is thinking about you, and worrying about you, and praying for you too.

But, I can't do #1...

and shouldn't do #2...

#3 we can all do with you, tqt

We are all here for you spidey.

believer, Pep, 2long, tqt, "the other" SS, ff, thank you all so very very very much. I know you are all looking out for my best interests, and supporting those the best way you know how. And it is all so greatly appreciated.

I am in a much better place, again. I am willing to wait and see where all this all goes, and just going to take it one day at a time. I am certainly not bored! Heavens.

So, tqt, I am still wondering what things I said might happen that have come to fruition. I am telling you, a woman NEVER tires of hearing that she is RIGHT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spidey

Hey, on a little sidenote, I think maybe I'm... "getting well".....
I was sitting down to start writing, and this song came on the radio -- a song that sent me crashing full-speed into He11 just before, and during, and long after that Little Nightmare Called Infidelity became the focus of my life. Up until pretty recently, too.
But just NOW... when I heard it, I knew the song meant something to me, but I had to stop and think for a little bit about exactly what it was... Yikes!

Yes... it appears that there really IS life after a blown-up marriage... eventually, time does begin to heal even the worst wounds.

Ahhh.... the resiliency of the Human Spirit is truly amazing.

But that's not why I called <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The whole intent of this post is to ask a completely new and different question...

>>>> How are you, Spidey? <<<<

You've said that you're up, and then down... feeling strong and then feeling not quite-so-strong (I'm paraphrasing just a little bit :-)). You're pretty darn good at the uphill climb... but we all need some support on the downhill parts!

Yeah, well... we sorta gathered that :-)

Oh, and BTW, Ms. Slayer...
Well, now that you put it THAT way...
methinks I'll just take a little more time to answer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well tqt and Spidey......I want you to know that after an hour and a half of reading I am finally caught up on this thread. (Someone really ought to remind me to check on it more often instead of all that potato talk.....)

((((((((((((((((((((((((Spidey)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Honey, I'm so sorry. You're such a beautiful person and I just feel such love for you and you've always had such kind and helpful words for me when I'm hurting, and I don't know how to return the favor for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm just sick to my stomach about all of this....just sick.

Please forgive me for not checking in on you more often, I tend to get a little wrapped up in my own quagmires.

Good Lord Spidey, are you aiming for Sainthood? I can't believe the understanding that you have for your husband, it baffles me completely.....I have been reading your posts and thinking....."Okay, now she's going to smack him....no wait, okay now she's going to smack him"

Can I smack him? Please?

Okay, if I can't smack him can I please draw him a very beautiful illustration of what a wonderful, caring, warm, genuine, thoughtful, loving woman he's hurting?

God Bless You,

-Caren

**********SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH********** Men! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I am doing really well, actually. I know I might get flamed here for telling you all this, but "sticks and stones," you know? Anyway, last night H and I met with his co-worker at a local coffee place where the kids like to go and play video games. They have puzzles there, too, so it was nice to talk and have something to do with our hands.

It was nice to get to talk to her face to face. She has been struggling a lot with my feelings, lately. I told her last night that she has no responsibility for my feelings, or for me in general. I told her she has responsibility to her H, because they have a contract. I told her my H has a responsibility to me, because we have a contract together, but I have no contract with her. And of course she may have a responsibility to herself with regards to her behavior.

She had a hard time with that concept. She is a very nice lady, who is struggling with the concept of having H as a friend in her life. She was brought up in a religion that she doesn't believe in anymore, that teaches you get that one man and marry him and no other men are to be in your life ~ period.

Anyway, her H has told her basically what I have told my H ~ I trust you to be honest with me, I want you to be happy and if that means being friends with someone of the opposite sex than I am willing to support that, and if the feelings ever go from friendship to more, or physicality is going to happen, I want to know and we will re-evaluate at that point.

I know many of you won't agree with this. And maybe I just can't post here anymore, because of the beliefs many here hold. And I don't want to inadvertently trigger people still so fresh in the pain of infidelity.

I am off to run 7 miles this morning, half of which will be uphill. Ugh. Hope my calf muscle holds out. I have sorely neglected the gym since 1)school started, and 2)last week when the boys and I got so sick. I must get back, not just for the physical benefits, but it really helps my mental state, too. Which is probably why I have been such a wreck these past couple of weeks.

Caren, thank you for such kind words. Sometimes I think many of you have a romanticized version of me in your heads. I am CERTAINLY no saint, I am just regular special like all of us are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I am doing the best I can in a difficult situation, just like the rest of us have all done. And when I fall on my face, I get up and start moving again, just like we have all done. And, believe it or not, my H does know all the great things about me, and wouldn't give me up for anything. I see us living together, married, for the rest of our lives. These are just blips on the radar, small moments in time.

I was talking to a client the other day, she and her H just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. And she told me she couldn't count the times they had almost called it quits for one reason or another. She said the worst, was when their 24 year old daughter committed suicide after struggling with epilepsy and mental illness for 10 years. I know many many M's do not survive the death of a child.

And after reading the Divorce Remedy that believer posted, I do believe that in 1 or 3 or 5 years time, we will look back on this and know that it was just another bond we created with each other, to see us through other challenges we will face in the future ~ together.

Everyone, take care, and I love all of ya! Even the ones who might come and judge and flame. Love ya!!!

Spidey

Spidey - I hope you will keep posting, no matter what. We all deal with this stuff in different ways. I suspect lots of us do things that are not very MB like - we just don't post about it.

Believer - That is so true. I don't post much anymore. H still works with FOW and I just got sick of hearing from people that we would never truely be in recovery because of that. Well at the end of this month, we are getting Married again! We were never married in the church so we are going to to that. H is pretty excited, he's pushing me to get all the paperwork done and harrassing me if I don't do it quickly enough. And SSSSHHHH we have another secret, don't tell anyone. But there may be another Baby Kloe!